# Read with caution, please. Not for the easily offended. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 2, 2000, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/read-with-caution-please-not-for-the-easily-offended/24341 "2000-07-02T06:14:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2000, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/read-with-caution-please-not-for-the-easily-offended/24341/61 "2000-07-06T19:09:52Z")
Ack, sorry about the endless italics. I wanted to go back and fix the tags, but the board wouldn’t let me edit my own message. MR ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2000, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/read-with-caution-please-not-for-the-easily-offended/24341/62 "2000-07-06T20:51:08Z")
In reply to Tymp, I’m going to have to elad by apologizing for not knowing how to quote; I’ll go by numbered points and quote as best I can. 1. In response to my observation that people think about sex all the time, you replied - in sarcasm - that you didn’t realize people were “so simple.” People aren’t simple, at all, actually. The human mind is remarkably complex, and much of its workings are beyond the control of the owner. Just the brain functions that allow you to understand speech are remarkably complex (and unconscious.) The fact that people have sex on their minds all the time doesn’t simplify them, it complicates them. At the same time that you’re working on the Fleegerman file, your brain’s processing a hundred other things - and sex is a prominent one. It’s not that everyone’s consciously concentrating on boffing each other every waking monet; it’s simply that we unconsciously make judgements based on sexual attraction on an ongoing basis. There’s no so thing as a person who can mentally switch themselves from Lust Dog to No Sex Mode. Sexual attraction is an ongoing mental process, like every other process the brain is running at any given time. For that matter, hunger’s an ongoing mental process. 1. As to your response to Maeglin’s account, if your response was merely to the attitude of one guy, I’m not sure the account was really specific enough to say what the guy was saying - if HE consciously treated someone differently because she was cute, or if he was admitting what he thought the reason for the general office behaviour was. That said, I’ll say it again; most behaviour based on looks _is unconscious_. It has nothing to do with any “attitude” at all, insofar as that word is usually used. And nobody’s suggested women (or men) should only be treated in accordance with their looks. Cureiously enough, you seem to agree with Maeglin and I when you state that when you see an attractive woman, your “basest urge” is to mate with her, but you consciously choose to behave differently. Well, of course; you’re repeating, perhaps inadvertently, exactly what I have already said: “It’s instinctive and part of our makeup. It doesn’t excuse shallow or ignorant behaviour any more than our aggressive instincts excuse punching out everyone who irritates us…” Where I think we disagree, or are talking at cross purposes, is that you seem (and I may misunderstand here) to be asserting that people do, or should, be capable of completely ignoring that part of their emotions when dealing with others in non-sexual contexts. That’s impossible; sexual motivation unconsciously affects us, all the time. It’s not “bad” any more than it’s “bad” we get tired or confused or can’t remember phone numbers. As to your comments about how “Tarting yourself up” is sometimes undesirable, “tarting up” wasn’t mentioned in my comments, so I don’t see the relevance. My comments were around beauty affects the beholder. I don’t think people are very good-looking tarted up anyway. you then ask: “I wonder about this quote, though, how much do looks enter into a person’s behavior? Are not these decent people, of which you and I are so fond, capable of recognizing appearance as being irrelevant during non-sexual activities?” Of course they are - but again, _most behaviour is unconscious_. You will make decisions, and do every day, based on a variety of instinctive factors that you’ll either never take note of or will elaborately rationalize, even if it’s something as insignificant as smiling a fraction of a second longer when you catch the eye of someone attractive. Fair people will never promote one person over another based on looks - but over time, were you to assemble a good data sample and test properly, fair people, including you and I, will show a tendency towards promoting better looking people. The old cliche that to get ahead a man has to be tall and have good hair has been shown again and again to have a fair amount of truth to it. As to the account of the creepy donut guy - and yeah, he seemed kind of creepy - your comment about needing therapy was general: “If you or someone you know has serious difficulty thinking of something other than sex throughout the course of his normal dealings with other people, I would suggest talk therapy in order to address some self-esteem issues.” Thinking about sex is not, to my mind, indicative of a lack of self-esteem; it’s a normal part of being a human being. And yes, we all think about it all the time. ---
**Author:** ![PRISM02](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@PRISM02](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PRISM02)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2000, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/read-with-caution-please-not-for-the-easily-offended/24341/63 "2000-07-06T23:12:06Z")
(Looking about suspiciously.) I’m beginning to suspect that one or more of you is Mark Serlin in disguise, judging from the length of repeated posts. Come on! Fess up! **You don’t want the PIT!** You think it is bad here, it gets 10 times worse there and the ravings can wax lunatic in context. Homicidal in fact. ---
**Author:** ![jubei2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a87d85/32.png) [@jubei2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jubei2k)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2000, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/read-with-caution-please-not-for-the-easily-offended/24341/64 "2000-07-07T01:45:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lindsay \* > \*\* > My belief is that when a man looks for a mate, the first thing he is looking for is a hot body. It doesn’t matter what her IQ is or her beliefs on how best to solve world hunger or anything. > > Do you think for a minute that when a guy sees a babe he thinks how much he would like to discuss Shakespeare with her? > > No, he is thinking how long will it take to get her clothes off. > > \*\* Let me tell you something, you knucklehead. I’m only 24, but I’ve been out with my share of women. And if any of them said half of the lame-brained things that you’re “sharing” with us, I’d have ditched them after the first date. Personality does count, and while some people might not be as easy on the eyes as you claim to be, they’ve got character in spades, something that you have an appalling lack of. And it means a lot. In other words, let me put it into one sentence/paragraph for you: You are an arm-piece. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Zambezi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7cd45c/32.png) [@Mr.Zambezi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Zambezi)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2000, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/read-with-caution-please-not-for-the-easily-offended/24341/65 "2000-07-07T23:09:20Z")
Most things have an up and down side. While the opposite sex may give you perks for being attractive, the same sex can develop a deep seated hatred for you. I have seen it time and time again. My first wife got flown out to playboy for a photo shoot (she didn’t get in) but she was that good looking. Of course, she never had to develop any kind of personality. Nor did she have to make any money or be interesting. HEr life has been, I am sure, pretty great so far. But I wouldn’t want to be her at 40. The guys who like an arm piece, don’t like them to be too old. Nothing comes without something to balance it out a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2000, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/read-with-caution-please-not-for-the-easily-offended/24341/66 "2000-07-08T15:24:26Z")
The following quotes are all from PRISM02. > [@](#): > > Another friend of mine married a short, cute little dark haired beauty – who changed after the wedding into a stout, mouthy vixen. (They divorced.) > [@](#): > > I have many female friends (had. When I got sick, I had to pull away and keep to myself), who I loved discussing things with, helping out, going to visit and generally hang around but physically, they did not turn me on so there was no intimate relationship. > [@](#): > > The few girls I attracted were kind of like broomsticks with legs, coke bottle glasses and stringy hair or short, pasty faced, outweighed the foot ball coach and often had mouths like sailors on leave. Not much sexual attraction there. Sure, I suppose they were nice girls. I > know many of them were, but they turned me off! > [@](#): > > I have known women who go for the ‘studs’. I worked with a ‘STUD,’ who looked like he should have been posing for a rugged work booth ad while carrying a steel I beam on his shoulder and flashing his even pearly whites from his square chinned, youngish manly face with ‘just’ the right touch of stubble. Girls came out of nowhere to gawk at or encounter him. He had more ‘casual lays’ than anyone I know. > He had the morals of an ally cat, but most of the girls were not interested in marriage - just sex. > [@](#): > > (Looking about suspiciously.) > I’m beginning to suspect that one or more of you is Mark Serlin in disguise, judging from the length of repeated posts. All together now! _One of these things is not like the others…_ ---
**Author:** ![Sneevil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/41988e/32.png) [@Sneevil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sneevil)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2000, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/read-with-caution-please-not-for-the-easily-offended/24341/67 "2000-07-08T15:30:51Z")
FIRST THE WOMEN: 40-ish… 48 Adventurer… Has had more partners than you ever will Athletic… Flat-chested Average looking… Ugly Beautiful… Pathological liar Contagious Smile… Bring your penicillin Educated… College dropout Emotionally Secure… Medicated Feminist… Fat; ball buster Free spirit… Substance user Friendship first… Trying to live down reputation as slut Fun… Annoying Gentle… Comatose Good Listener… Borderline Autistic New-Age… All body hair, all the time Old-fashioned… Lights out, missionary position only Open-minded… Desperate Outgoing… Loud Passionate… Loud Poet… Depressive financially insecure Professional… Real Witch Redhead… Shops the Clairol section Reubenesque… Grossly Fat Romantic… Looks better by candle light Voluptuous… Very Fat Weight proportional to height… Hugely Fat Wants Soulmate… One step away from stalking Widow… Nagged first husband to death Young at heart… Toothless crone THE MALE SIDE OF THE LIST: 40-ish… 52 and looking for 25-yr-old Athletic… Sits on the couch and watches ESPN Average looking… Unusual hair growth on ears, nose, & back Educated… Will always treat you like an idiot Free Spirit… Sleeps with your sister Friendship first… As long as friendship involves nudity Fun… Good with a remote and a six pack Good looking… Arrogant Honest… Pathological Liar Huggable… Overweight, more body hair than a bear Like to cuddle… Insecure, overly dependent Mature… Until you get to know him Open-minded…Wants to sleep with your sister but she’s not interested Physically fit… I spend a lot of time in front of mirror admiring myself Poet… Has written on a bathroom stall Spiritual… Once went to church with his grandmother on Easter Sunday Stable… Occasional stalker, but never arrested Thoughtful… Says “Please” when demanding a beer ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2000, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/read-with-caution-please-not-for-the-easily-offended/24341/68 "2000-07-08T16:27:17Z")
lindsay wrote: > [@](#): > > My belief is that when a man looks for a mate, the first thing he is looking for is a hot body. I like to make a distinction between what a man looks for in a **mate** and what a man looks for in a **sex partner**. They are not necessarily the same thing. A man’s mate is the woman he shares his resources with for a large span of time, to ensure that the children they raise together have a good chance of survival. A man’s sex partners (note the plural) are the women he wants to impregnate because they’d make good breeding stock and have a better chance of getting pregnant with viable offspring _at all_. I’m not saying a man actually thinks like this, consciously or even unconsciously. I’m saying this is the underlying evolutionary biological motivation for these desires. Note that the difference between a good mate and a good lay for a woman is even more pronounced than it is for a man (hence the traditional dichotomy between what women “want in a mate” and what they actually end up going to bed with most of the time). Note also that, obviously, my discussion here is limited to heterosexuals. > [@](#): > > It doesn’t matter what her IQ is or her beliefs on how best to solve world hunger or anything. > > Do you think for a minute that when a guy sees a babe he thinks how much he would like to discuss Shakespeare with her? > > No, he is thinking how long will it take to get her clothes off. Well, yeah, but he’s not gonna just come out and **say** so. 😉 > [@](#): > > I also like women who look at themselves in the mirror and go MEOW. > \< snip \> > Are you aware that no man wants to wake up with Coyote Arm? I have absolutely no idea whatsoever as to what either of those two sentences mean. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2000, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/read-with-caution-please-not-for-the-easily-offended/24341/69 "2000-07-08T16:34:12Z")
Earlier in this thread, **lindsay** wrote: > [@](#): > > You will never read anywhere that I said I am in any way beautiful physically. Later, **jubei2k** responded to a different passage **lindsay** wrote by saying: > [@](#): > > Personality does count, and while some people might not be as easy on the eyes as you claim to be, they’ve got character in spades, something that you have an appalling lack of. Um, **jubei2k** , I’d hardly say that **lindsay** ever claimed to be easy on the eyes. Sounds like _somebody_ here jumped to an unjustified conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2000, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/read-with-caution-please-not-for-the-easily-offended/24341/70 "2000-07-08T18:13:12Z")
Well, tracer, I would be inclined to agree with you, were it not for this lindsay quote: > [@](#): > > An anecdote, as one who got some of those perks, it was amusing to notice what guys would do for me. Or this one: > [@](#): > > However, if someone wants to treat me differently because of something I was born with, so what? Or this one: > [@](#): > > Let me also add that one fellow told me, god knows why, that he would not have been attracted to me if I hadn’t taken my jacket off and he saw my chest. So when she says: > [@](#): > > You will never read anywhere that I said I am in any way beautiful physically. …she’s pretty much just backtracking. Obviously she at least has a nice chest. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![nashiitashii](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7c8e57/32.png) [@nashiitashii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nashiitashii)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2000, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/read-with-caution-please-not-for-the-easily-offended/24341/71 "2000-07-09T05:46:08Z")
In my experience, most of the guys that I find instantly attractive aren’t always the ones i go for in the end. Take, for example, this one guy I met about a year ago. He’s gorgeous, dresses well, and I like him at first. After about a week [or less] of getting to know him, I think he’s not attractive and don’t want to be around him due to his obnoxious behavior. Otoh, most guys I end up being attracted to for mates and sometimes end up dating start out as friends, and I don’t think about their attractiveness at first. I’m fairly outgoing and make friends easily due to what some friends describe as a “charismatic personality.” This does not mean I am ugly or attractive [I am neutral on the subject of whether I’m attractive or not; I got used to the way I look, and wouldn’t want to change it]; that all depends on what the person looking likes in a woman. With the nature of attraction issue, all cultures take some form of what is considered to be a good breeding partner’s features and emphasize at least one. Some take large hips, large breasts, small feet [no clue how that one works,it’s just a feature that is feminine I guess], etc. When I look for an ideal mate, there isn’t a standard exactly, it’s more of what the overall picture looks like. Attractiveness can be a plus, and some take advantage of it without trying to make their characters appealing also, but it can’t get a person everywhere. Nature dictates that the most adaptable will survive, and that’s how it is normally. Plenty of people are successful without the use of looks because they were able to adapt and change and take advantage of what was around them. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2000, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/read-with-caution-please-not-for-the-easily-offended/24341/72 "2000-07-09T16:46:16Z")
Drain Bead wrote: > [@](#): > > Well, tracer, I would be inclined to agree with you, were it not for this lindsay quote: > > > [@](#): > > > > An anecdote, as one who got some of those perks, it was amusing to notice what guys would do for me. **D’OH!** > [@](#): > > Or this one: > > > [@](#): > > > > Let me also add that one fellow told me, god knows why, that he would not have been attracted to me if I hadn’t taken my jacket off and he saw my chest. Hmmm … that one **could** be construed to mean that the guy didn’t consider her attractive until lindsay aggressively flashed him (i.e. he interpreted this to mean he’d get an easy lay), but yes, it could also mean that lindsay has a nice pair of assets. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/read-with-caution-please-not-for-the-easily-offended/24341.md?page=3)