# Reading about the "knockout game" makes me feel old **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 21, 2014, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-about-the-knockout-game-makes-me-feel-old/679373 "2014-01-21T16:53:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mithras](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f04885/32.png) [@Mithras](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mithras)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-about-the-knockout-game-makes-me-feel-old/679373/21 "2014-01-21T18:40:07Z")
There are hundreds of thousands of assaults in the US every year. Out of all of those, why are 20-50 (that actually take place over some indeterminate time frame) the ones that are worthy of hours and hours of media coverage? Given how rare the phenomenon appears to be relative to other crimes, it’s really hard for me to get worked up about it. And based on the fact that kids are more likely to be jerks than adults, I’m more surprised that, “kids hurting someone and laughing about it,” happens as infrequently as it appears to, even based on the most alarmist reporting of the knockout game. ---
**Author:** ![Mithras](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f04885/32.png) [@Mithras](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mithras)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-about-the-knockout-game-makes-me-feel-old/679373/22 "2014-01-21T18:54:11Z")
I think this is the second time in the last few days that I posted after just skimming a thread and said essentially the same thing as **Marley** a few posts above. ---
**Author:** ![Boogly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Boogly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boogly)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-about-the-knockout-game-makes-me-feel-old/679373/23 "2014-01-21T19:00:20Z")
I love the smell of media in the morning. The smell, of feces, over all the networks. It smells like…jenkem. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-about-the-knockout-game-makes-me-feel-old/679373/24 "2014-01-21T19:01:21Z")
> [@Mithras](#): > > There are hundreds of thousands of assaults in the US every year. Out of all of those, why are 20-50 the ones that are worthy of hours and hours of media coverage? . Because most of those hundreds of thousands of assaults are familiar to us, and even “logical”. (Abusive husbands, drunks at a bar, jealous boyfriends, muggers who want your wallet…) The knockout game is a different level of social depravity. And since it is new and we have no experience dealing with it, it’s scary. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-about-the-knockout-game-makes-me-feel-old/679373/25 "2014-01-21T19:04:19Z")
> [@Boogly](#): > > You ask for cites, critique others cites and then follow up that this won’t be settled with cites? 1. I did not ask for cites, 2) I said that there are some things that can be settled with cites and some things that can’t. These should both be pretty clear from my posts, and if you can’t figure that out it’s not surprising that you are unsure of what point I am trying to get across. > [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > His point is that black people are terrible, and anything terrible you hear about them should be assumed to be true, without the need for any reflection or investigation. Is this type of dishonesty SOP for you? Or only when defending your precious ideology? > [@Mithras](#): > > There are hundreds of thousands of assaults in the US every year. Out of all of those, why are 20-50 (that actually take place over some indeterminate time frame) the ones that are worthy of hours and hours of media coverage? Given how rare the phenomenon appears to be relative to other crimes, it’s really hard for me to get worked up about it. And based on the fact that kids are more likely to be jerks than adults, I’m more surprised that, “kids hurting someone and laughing about it,” happens as infrequently as it appears to, even based on the most alarmist reporting of the knockout game. Read the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-about-the-knockout-game-makes-me-feel-old/679373/26 "2014-01-21T19:05:57Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > Because most of those hundreds of thousands of assaults are familiar to us, and even “logical”. (Abusive husbands, drunks at a bar, jealous boyfriends, muggers who want your wallet…) I’ll assume for the sake of argument that you’re right and most of those assaults happen for intelligible reasons. There are plenty of random assaults by any measurement. You don’t really think there were less than 50 of those last year, do you? > [@](#): > > The knockout game is a different level of social depravity. Not in any way, no. > [@](#): > > And since it is new and we have no experience dealing with it, it’s scary. It’s not new either; [here’s a reference from 1992](http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=2pZGAAAAIBAJ&sjid=lvgMAAAAIBAJ&pg=6167,4733376&dq=violent+knockout+game&hl=en). The only bit that’s newish is the YouTube videos. The rest is hype. ---
**Author:** ![Boogly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Boogly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boogly)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-about-the-knockout-game-makes-me-feel-old/679373/27 "2014-01-21T19:09:08Z")
Sucker punching is nothing new. I’ve seen it happen quite a few times. Best way to rob someone? Sucker punch. Best way to win a fight? Sucker punch. And now a way for media outlets to stay relevant. Just because the media reports it as new doesn’t mean that it is really new. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-about-the-knockout-game-makes-me-feel-old/679373/28 "2014-01-21T19:15:33Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > 1. > > Is this type of dishonesty SOP for you? Or only when defending your precious ideology? I’m not being dishonest. I truly believe what I wrote is your point. Nor do I have an ideology, precious or otherwise. That said, you seem like one of these people for whom being contentious and belligerent is an end in itself. So I don’t see much point in continuing this discussion. The dope has a fair number of smart people on it, most of whom can spot a media inspired moral panic from a mile away. It’s not worth it to engage in a futile attempt to reason with those who can’t or–in my honest opinion–won’t, for ideological reasons of their own. So I’ll bow out here. ---
**Author:** ![Karrius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71c47a/32.png) [@Karrius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karrius)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-about-the-knockout-game-makes-me-feel-old/679373/29 "2014-01-21T19:16:44Z")
This thread basically shows WHY this is making the news - because it’s a made up rumor that racists can use in order to spread lies and their hate-mongering. It’s convenient, it’s useful, and acting like it’s something that’s “real” helps them get away with it. I mean, ignore the fact that a bunch of cited incidents in this thread are white people assaulting others, it’s a _racial_ thing, you understand, that’s why the media isn’t reporting on it… ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-about-the-knockout-game-makes-me-feel-old/679373/30 "2014-01-21T19:17:09Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > If it was 20 to 50 verified assaults in one city or even one state, there might be. Nationwide, perhaps over a period of years? No. It’s statistically meaningless and aside from the media frenzy it doesn’t seem different from a lot of other assaults. What does “statistically meaningless” mean, in this context? That’s generally used when trying to prove some sort of correlation or trend. But that’s not what’s being done here. We’re discussing whether a phenomenon exists and how widespread it is. “Statistically meaningless” is a meaningless concept in that context. What this does illustrate, IMO, is the mindset that permeates your posts and those of other posters in this thread. You are simply incapable of looking at issues or this sort without seeing it in PC terms and in the context of overall sterotypes about black people. And as such, your instant reaction is to treat these reports as being part of a bigger story about black people generally, and you leap into anti-racist mode and begin denying denying denying that any alleged racist inferences that people are supposedly drawing from this are true. In that context, yeah, 20 -50 is also no big deal, as it too does not support the supposed notion that hordes of Scary Black Thugs are roaming the streets attacking Helpless Law-abiding White guys. And that’s where you get your “statistically meaningless” arguments. But if the question is “is this phenomenon real and how widespread is it?”, then there’s a huge difference between 2 and 20 - 50. BTW, I assume neither of us initially read the article linked in the OP, in which one guy is being charged with 7 such attacks. And that article ends with the statement that: > [@](#): > > At least nine suspected “knockout” attacks have been reported since October in New York, but police have said they see no evidence of a trend. > > Authorities have reported similar incidents in New Jersey, Connecticut, Illinois, Missouri and Washington. ---
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-about-the-knockout-game-makes-me-feel-old/679373/31 "2014-01-21T19:19:20Z")
> [@Boogly](#): > > Snopes calls it false, or at least the original report. > The rest is assholes acting like assholes who should be prosecuted fully. I just listened to this last night:The Knockout Game is part of a war on white people! Satanists are abducting babies all over the country, and if your kids live through that, some asshole’s going to poison their Halloween candy! Every few months, the media cooks up a new feast of terror for gullible parents to forward across the Internet. Jack O’Brien and Jason Pargin (aka David Wong) trace the moral panics of the recent past back to their roots, and learn something awful about all of us along the way. [Why America Loves to Freak Out About Made Up Crime Waves](http://www.cracked.com/podcast/why-america-loves-to-freak-out-about-made-up-crime-waves/) ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-about-the-knockout-game-makes-me-feel-old/679373/32 "2014-01-21T19:23:38Z")
> [@standingwave](#): > > I just listened to this last night:The Knockout Game is part of a war on white people! Satanists are abducting babies all over the country, and if your kids live through that, some asshole’s going to poison their Halloween candy! Every few months, the media cooks up a new feast of terror for gullible parents to forward across the Internet. Jack O’Brien and Jason Pargin (aka David Wong) trace the moral panics of the recent past back to their roots, and learn something awful about all of us along the way. > > [Why America Loves to Freak Out About Made Up Crime Waves](http://www.cracked.com/podcast/why-america-loves-to-freak-out-about-made-up-crime-waves/) Hah, I was going to link to that! It’s worth a listen. Jack and David don’t bring any special expertise to the subject, but there’s a lot of common sense there. ---
**Author:** ![Karrius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71c47a/32.png) [@Karrius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karrius)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-about-the-knockout-game-makes-me-feel-old/679373/33 "2014-01-21T19:23:51Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > What this does illustrate, IMO, is the mindset that permeates your posts and those of other posters in this thread. You are simply incapable of looking at issues or this sort without seeing it in PC terms and in the context of overall sterotypes about black people. And as such, your instant reaction is to treat these reports as being part of a bigger story about black people generally, and you leap into anti-racist mode and begin denying denying denying that any alleged racist inferences that people are supposedly drawing from this are true. You were the first one to bring up race in this thread. You were. It was you. _You_ were the one who tried to make it racial. YOU were the one who tried to act like it was a media coverup. YOU were the one who tried to act like it was part of a bigger story about black people. YOU were the one who lept into racist mode and began lying, lying, lying. Project much? Your words are right here in this thread, you might act like we’re stupid and can’t read them, but EVERYBODY can see how you’re being dishonest. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-about-the-knockout-game-makes-me-feel-old/679373/34 "2014-01-21T19:25:20Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > I’m not being dishonest. I truly believe what I wrote is your point. Nor do I have an ideology, precious or otherwise. I beg to differ. You were being dishonest. There’s nothing that I’ve said in this thread which would suggest that “black people are terrible, and anything terrible you hear about them should be assumed to be true, without the need for any reflection or investigation”, and even if you somehow knew, with your mind-reading wisdom, that I believed this, there’s no way to read this into anything I’ve said in this thread. So essentially you were just making stuff up and attributing bogus and nasty claims to someone whose position you disliked. Judging creditably, I think you may resort to this type of thing as part of your virtuous battle against the evils of racism. But perhaps it’s typical for you. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-about-the-knockout-game-makes-me-feel-old/679373/35 "2014-01-21T19:27:32Z")
> [@Karrius](#): > > You were the first one to bring up race in this thread. You were. It was you. _You_ were the one who tried to make it racial. YOU were the one who tried to act like it was a media coverup. YOU were the one who tried to act like it was part of a bigger story about black people. YOU were the one who lept into racist mode and began lying, lying, lying. > > Project much? > > Your words are right here in this thread, you might act like we’re stupid and can’t read them, but EVERYBODY can see how you’re being dishonest. Have you read Marley’s first post and his cites? ---
**Author:** ![Karrius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71c47a/32.png) [@Karrius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karrius)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-about-the-knockout-game-makes-me-feel-old/679373/36 "2014-01-21T19:29:17Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Have you read Marley’s first post and his cites? Marley’s first post: > [@](#): > > It’s not really a thing. I think there were a couple of isolated incidents of assault, but it wasn’t a nationwide trend or a game a lot of kids were playing. It was just another media panic. Please point out to me where he brought race into it. Your first post: > [@](#): > > The opposite is true. The media is deliberately downplaying the issue because of the races of (most of) the participants and victims. You were the first one to bring up the racial angle. That is fact. Absolutely, 100%, undeniable fact. And yet you accuse others of doing so first. Why? To remind you, you later said: > [@](#): > > And as such, your instant reaction is to treat these reports as being part of a bigger story about black people generally, Accusing someone else of **the exact thing you were guilty of**. ---
**Author:** ![Boogly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Boogly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boogly)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-about-the-knockout-game-makes-me-feel-old/679373/37 "2014-01-21T19:30:11Z")
I apologize if I am incorrect. It seemed to me that you were asking for cites in post #5. Does this happen? Of course. Is it newsworthy? I don’t think so. Of course I am not trying to hype myself to stay on top of the news pile. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-about-the-knockout-game-makes-me-feel-old/679373/38 "2014-01-21T19:32:52Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Well I certainly agree that it does not require panic. I myself am not panicking, nor is anyone else that I know. > > But I think there’s a big difference between claiming that it’s only a couple of isolated incidents and 20 - 50, and if in fact you didn’t think so you should have made that clear in your prior post instead of claiming that you had cites which backed you up. > > [What exactly do you claim to think you were doing with those cites? Proving that several other people share your opinion that no one should panic?] 20-50 of virtually anything in a country this size is a few isolated incidents. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-about-the-knockout-game-makes-me-feel-old/679373/39 "2014-01-21T19:34:15Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > What does “statistically meaningless” mean, in this context? Not a meaningful number. Like my earlier post, I think this is actually very obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-about-the-knockout-game-makes-me-feel-old/679373/40 "2014-01-21T19:38:18Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I’ll assume for the sake of argument that you’re right and most of those assaults happen for intelligible reasons. There are plenty of random assaults by any measurement. You don’t really think there were less than 50 of those last year, do you? > > Not in any way, no. > > It’s not new either; [here’s a reference from 1992](http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=2pZGAAAAIBAJ&sjid=lvgMAAAAIBAJ&pg=6167,4733376&dq=violent+knockout+game&hl=en). The only bit that’s newish is the YouTube videos. The rest is hype. I tried posting this at a far right-wing conservative site that has been hammering this ‘knockout game’ bit to death lately. Curiously they seem to have decided that letting me post a reference to this being at least a 20 years old thing would be a bad thing. It doesn’t help their narrative I suppose. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-about-the-knockout-game-makes-me-feel-old/679373.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-about-the-knockout-game-makes-me-feel-old/679373.md?page=3)