# Reading music in, say, Hebrew **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 23, 2000, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-music-in-say-hebrew/34227 "2000-09-23T02:06:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![tsarina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f4b2a3/32.png) [@tsarina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tsarina)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2000, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-music-in-say-hebrew/34227/1 "2000-09-23T02:06:21Z")
Something I’ve always wondered… Since the universal way of writing music is from right to left, does this present a problem for people who speak a language written from right to left, like Hebrew or Arabic? Or do they have their own method of transcription? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2000, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-music-in-say-hebrew/34227/2 "2000-09-23T02:15:05Z")
> [@](#): > > Since the universal way of writing music is from right to left, I take it you mean “from left to right”. I would suppose they get used to it, as mathematicians get used to composite functions being written from right to left. Besides which, how many people are there in the world that can read Hebrew, but _can’t_ read English or any of the other left to right languages? ---
**Author:** ![tsarina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f4b2a3/32.png) [@tsarina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tsarina)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2000, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-music-in-say-hebrew/34227/3 "2000-09-23T02:15:06Z")
whoops… I meant to say “music is written universally from left to right”. Aaargh. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2000, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-music-in-say-hebrew/34227/4 "2000-09-23T02:19:36Z")
Well, that’s got to be the fastest correction I’ve ever seen. You aren’t stalking me, are you? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![tsarina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f4b2a3/32.png) [@tsarina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tsarina)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2000, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-music-in-say-hebrew/34227/5 "2000-09-23T02:21:57Z")
well, yes… but I think you posted your answer about two seconds before me. I didn’t even see yours until I hit “submit”. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_Bowe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@Doug\_Bowe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_Bowe)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2000, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-music-in-say-hebrew/34227/6 "2000-09-23T02:36:45Z")
I know three ladies who read and write both English and Hebrew and are musicians, to boot. They make the transitions very well. Now, think of all those Japanese and Chinese musicians who learned to read top to bottom. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2000, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-music-in-say-hebrew/34227/7 "2000-09-23T04:45:38Z")
Hebrew speakers (as well as other speakers of languages that don’t go from left to right, I am sure) are more comfortable moving in either direction than people who are used to left to right. Israelis begin learning English in elementary school, and get used to it quickly. Additionally, numbers are written from left to right. (I’m not really sure about Arabic, since there is a different Arabic number system that I can’t really read.) ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2000, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-music-in-say-hebrew/34227/8 "2000-09-24T11:41:35Z")
…enaL kcauQ 123 ekil sserda na ees uoy dna werbeH ni gnola gnidaer er’ouy fi oS … it is really 123 Quack Lane and not 321. ---
**Author:** ![sdimbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sdimbert/32/20204_2.png) [@sdimbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sdimbert)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2000, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-music-in-say-hebrew/34227/9 "2000-09-24T16:13:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kyla \* > \*\*Additionally, numbers are written from left to right. (I’m not really sure about Arabic, since there is a different Arabic number system that I can’t really read.) \*\* ]b\Kyla\*\*, this confuses me… In school, I always learned that “Arabic” Numbers were the ones I used all the time (1,2,3…) and could be contrasted to “Roman” Numbers (I, II, III…). What “different Arabic number system” exists? ---
**Author:** ![curwin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@curwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curwin)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2000, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-music-in-say-hebrew/34227/10 "2000-09-24T17:13:46Z")
I’ve seen music written in Hebrew in a number of occassions. The music is written like the rest of the world, from left to right, but each syllable (not letter) in Hebrew is written backwards, to match the notes. I can’t read music, so I’ve never tried to sing along with backwards syllables. To me it seems somewhat tricky, but I guess you can get used to it. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2000, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-music-in-say-hebrew/34227/11 "2000-09-24T17:35:20Z")
> [@](#): > > Additionally, numbers are written from left to right. CDextHavn: > [@](#): > > …enaL kcauQ 123 ekil sserda na ees uoy dna werbeH ni gnola gnidaer er’ouy fi oS > > … it is really 123 Quack Lane and not 321. CDextHavn is correct about how numbers are represented when embedded in Hebrew text. A real pain in the ass for programmers writing formatting routines. Now, an interesting point about the statement “numbers are written left to right” - that is a perceptual thing. Our number system is actually better optimized for right-to-left: When scanning left to right you have to reach the end of the number before you can realize what value the entire string represents - you don’t know until you scan across the whole thing what place value the leftmost digit has. Scanning right-to-left, you can build up the number as you go along, as “three and twenty and a hundred and …”. I believe we generally vocalize numbers the other way around as an artifact of scanning left-to-right. Had we not “borrowed” an Arabic numbering system (Arabic is also written right-to-left), but invented a place-holder system for ourselves, it might well have had digit ordering the other way around. How do Arabic and Hebrew speakers vocalize numbers? ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2000, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-music-in-say-hebrew/34227/12 "2000-09-24T17:38:26Z")
Oh, excuse me, CKDextHavn. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2000, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-music-in-say-hebrew/34227/13 "2000-09-24T19:47:10Z")
In Arabic and Hebrew, numerics are written left-to-right, the reverse of the direction of the alpha characters. The numerics we use in English really are Arabic numerals. So are the “other” Arabic numerals referred to here. They are just two different script styles of writing exactly the same numeric system. Arabic calligraphy is divided into two main styles: Western (Maghribi), used in Northwest Africa; and Eastern (Mashriqi), used in Egypt and the rest of the Middle East. The Western style of writing the same characters developed independently beginning from the first century of Islam, which is why it looks so different. They form the alpha characters differently, as well as the numerics. Medieval Europe picked up Arabic learning mainly from Islamic Spain and Morocco, where the Western Arabic style of script prevailed; this is why we write the Arabic numerals the way we do, while Saudis form them differently. If you go to Morocco, you will see they still write the Western style of Arabic numerals that the Europeans beginning with Fibonacci in the 13th century picked up. The Arabs themselves call their numerals “_al-arqâm al-hindîyah_,” literally ‘the Indian numerals’, because India invented them. In Hindi script you see again a different style of writing the same numerics. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2000, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-music-in-say-hebrew/34227/14 "2000-09-24T19:50:31Z")
Now, back to the OP: Notice how the lyrics in sheet music are broken up into syllables. This solves the problem of how to write lyrics left-to-right in Arabic and Hebrew (also Persian, Urdu, Yiddish, etc.). Each syllable is internally written right-to-left. But the syllables go left-to-right to match up with the notes on the score.