# Reading to kids is overrated **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 25, 2014, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-to-kids-is-overrated/684510 "2014-03-25T07:52:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Wednesday\_Evening](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b2d939/32.png) [@Wednesday\_Evening](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wednesday_Evening)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-to-kids-is-overrated/684510/61 "2014-03-27T21:34:04Z")
This is _slightly_ off-topic, but according to [this](http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/05/100520213116.htm)study, just having lots of books in the home has a large positive effect on the level of education a child will attain. Take from that what you will. I use it as justification for buying more books: “I’m doing it for the children!!” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-to-kids-is-overrated/684510/62 "2014-03-28T02:32:46Z")
I’ve seen that before, and I think it is an excellent example of the conflation of correlation and causation that I’m talking about. It’s hard for me to imagine that anyone thinks that if you donated a truckload of free books to every home that didn’t have many, it would actually increase children’s achievement in those homes. Seems so obvious to me that they are not causing each other but are both results of the same cause: the parents are bookish people. Bookish people tend to have books, and bookish people tend to have bookish children. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-to-kids-is-overrated/684510/63 "2014-03-28T02:37:15Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > BTW, not sure early, even absurdly early, reading skill correlates with later intelligence, being smart, or even later reading skill. Like I said, my fifth grader, who has been pegging the STAR scale at 12.9 for a good year now, didn’t read a lick until she was taught in kindergarten and first grade. But while you don’t need to read early to be smart and a strong reader later, I find it hard to imagine that people who read really early ever regress to the mean or worse without some kind of TBI or illness. > [@Voyager](#): > > But when kids get older you can engage them in discussions of what you just read. Pointing out plot holes and logical inconsistencies is great training for life. Even before that asking what they think will happen next involves them in a story. You have to get past Goodnight Moon for this to work of course. I agree, and I enjoy doing this with TV shows. In this golden era of complex, novelistic TV that we live in, I think it works quite well. ---
**Author:** ![VernWinterbottom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/c67d28/32.png) [@VernWinterbottom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VernWinterbottom)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-to-kids-is-overrated/684510/64 "2014-03-28T02:55:33Z")
> [@Lydia\_Phalfav](#): > > I still hate muppets/puppets because of how tedious Sesame Street was to me back then. I’ve never been a fan of fake/puppet interaction segments; it’s just an irrational irritation. (Mr. Rogers was always our favorite show, especially the crayon factory episode!) And yet Mister Rogers had puppet segments, too. ---
**Author:** ![Flywheel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Flywheel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flywheel)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-to-kids-is-overrated/684510/65 "2014-03-28T02:58:54Z")
> [@VernWinterbottom](#): > > And yet Mister Rogers had puppet segments, too. And the [crayon factory segment](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ_MEFVx5jM) also appeared on Sesame Street (sans narration). ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-to-kids-is-overrated/684510/66 "2014-03-28T06:18:47Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Maybe because on the Dope, it seems EVERYONE taught themselves how to read when they were still in diapers. Or has a kid who did it. It’s just gotten to be such a cliche. Anymore when you see it, your eyes start to glaze over. That and this guy is so brilliant that he _taught himself_ how to read at two years old but still dismisses data in the face of his stupid fucking opinion. I blame myself for reading threads like these. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-to-kids-is-overrated/684510/67 "2014-03-28T07:06:20Z")
> [@Flywheel](#): > > And the [crayon factory segment](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ_MEFVx5jM) also appeared on Sesame Street (sans narration). But even better is to actually go to that crayon factory, which you can do if you are near Eastern Pennsylvania. Quite fun. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-to-kids-is-overrated/684510/68 "2014-03-28T07:07:56Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > That and this guy is so brilliant that he _taught himself_ how to read at two years old but still dismisses data in the face of his stupid fucking opinion. I blame myself for reading threads like these. I’m not up on current research, but I recall seeing some that said there wasn’t that great a correlation between age of beginning to read and reading later in life. Kids read when they are ready to. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-to-kids-is-overrated/684510/69 "2014-03-28T09:46:32Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > That and this guy is so brilliant that he _taught himself_ how to read at two years old I did not teach myself to read; _Sesame Street_ did. I am quite sure I would not have known how to read until first grade had I not watched that show. > [@](#): > > but still dismisses data in the face of his stupid fucking opinion. Three responses to that one: \*\*(1) \*\*This _is_ IMHO, right? Just checking to make sure it is still a board _dedicated to the expression of one’s **opinion** _. \*\*(2) \*\*Here are some excerpts of my responses in this thread. I wonder if a reasonable person would say I simply “dismissed data”, as opposed to engaging with it, acknowledging some points, asking for further evidence about others, while also laying out logical reasons one might doubt the validity of inferences made: > [@](#): > > This is a plausible hypothesis, but do you have a cite? What about reports that initial gains made by preschoolers in Head Start have faded to nothing when they check back a few years later? > [@](#): > > This too seems plausible. I will confess[…]So there’s another anecdote, as a singular data point for the other side…perhaps. > [@](#): > > Awesome. I certainly did not mean “underrated” to be in any way synonymous with “contraindicated”. > [@](#): > > I agree, if the science is solid (as it is with the fruits and vegetables, not to mention breastmilk). > [@](#): > > **Mr. Dibble** , you made a fair point so I clicked your link and looked at those abstracts. […]The last one does actually use a prospective rather than retrospective approach, by initiating an intervention with one group while leaving a control group alone to compare. Now we are getting somewhere! > […] > What would impress me would be a longitudinal study with a design along the following lines: > […] > Then just keep checking back to see if, and to what degree, the two groups diverge in educational attainment and in later life outcomes. Don’t just assume that higher performance in kindergarten is dispositive, as it could be like the Head Start effect which mostly evaporates by later grades. Follow them all the way to adulthood. That would be persuasive if it found a significant, persistent effect. > [@](#): > > It’s a very fair point. **(3)** _In re_ your bilious characterisation of my position as my “stupid fucking opinion”: I have very often over the years found myself the target of similarly vituperative and vulgar insults hurled in online discussions and debates. Yet I almost \*never \*direct the same kind of abuse at my antagonists–and I say “almost” only because it’s possible that it has happened, and I should not rule it out although I don’t remember ever doing it. At minimum, the ratio must be thousands to one. I wonder what that says about you, and all the others who continually stoop to this kind of crass rhetoric. I mean, is that all you’ve got? Strikes me as unfortunate that more people can’t “disagree without being disagreeable”, and remain civil even when expressing their strenuous objections on one topic or another. In any event, I intend to remain on the high road no matter how many times people try to drag me into the muck. So: I bid you good **day** , ma’am. (I said good day!) ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-to-kids-is-overrated/684510/70 "2014-03-28T11:26:57Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I have very often over the years found myself the target of similarly vituperative and vulgar insults hurled in online discussions and debates. Do you ever ask yourself, what’s the common denominator in these exchanges and what can I reasonably gleen about either causation or correlation of such exchanges? > [@SlackerInc](#): > > I wonder what that says about you, and all the others who continually stoop to this kind of crass rhetoric. . :smack: Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-to-kids-is-overrated/684510/71 "2014-03-28T11:44:31Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Do you ever ask yourself, what’s the common denominator in these exchanges and what can I reasonably glean about either causation or correlation of such exchanges? > . > > :smack: > > Carry on. I believe what you are getting at here is what would be known as “blaming the victim”, except that I do not consider myself a victim — I am a big boy who can take care of myself (as I believe I have amply demonstrated). Still, I raise an eyebrow at your impression that when I conduct myself civilly in exchanges with others, but they do not so conduct themselves with me, it must be **I** who is to blame for the incivility. ORLY? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-to-kids-is-overrated/684510/72 "2014-03-28T11:56:11Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > … I find it hard to imagine that people who read really early ever regress to the mean or worse … [Yet it happens.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperlexia) Oh, about the factoid re [Head Start benefits](http://mediamatters.org/research/2013/01/16/media-cherry-pick-facts-to-falsely-label-head-s/192284) … > [@](#): > > Media outlets cherry-picked facts from a recent Health and Human Services report on the Head Start education program to promote the myth that the program is a failure. However, neither the HHS report nor other studies confirm those claims, and reports actually show the program has had a positive impact both early on and later in students’ lives. … Again there are other ways to get there than sitting and reading to your child but sitting and reading will do it, hits many developmental needs all at once and evens out standard language exposure to those with other than standard language spoken in the home. Those who read raising good readers clearly (see the adoption studies) is not genetic proclivity alone. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-to-kids-is-overrated/684510/73 "2014-03-28T12:01:54Z")
The thing is, reading involves a multitude of discrete skills, ranging from figuring out the correct orientation for holding a book, through learning the most common sounds associated with letters, through recognizing sight words, through recognizing common spelling patterns, through analyzing literature for elements like character, setting, and plot. Just like any other skill, these skills need to be learned, and one of the best ways for someone to learn a skill is to interact with a master of the skill who models it, asks the learner to practice it, and gives the learner feedback on the practice. Reading aloud to a child provides an excellent opportunity to engage in all these behaviors. Obviously it’s not the only way for someone to learn the skills, any more than weekly lessons ar ethe only way for someone to learn to play the violin; equally obviously, not everyone who engages in such practice is going to take to the skill, any more than every child enrolled in Suzuki classes will become Itzak Perlman. But it would be absolutely remarkable if the skills of reading were unique among human skills in not being effectively taught by having a master of the skill interact with a student of the skill. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-to-kids-is-overrated/684510/74 "2014-03-28T12:10:47Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I believe what you are getting at here is what would be known as “blaming the victim”, except that I do not consider myself a victim — I am a big boy who can take care of myself (as I believe I have amply demonstrated). Still, I raise an eyebrow at your impression that when I conduct myself civilly in exchanges with others, but they do not so conduct themselves with me, it must be **I** who is to blame for the incivility. ORLY? Never would have guessed you’d play the victim card. :rolleyes: I can’s speak for others but I get the distinct impression that you’re the sort of person who would argue with a stump over the most trite detail of the least controversial subject. i.e. reading to kids. Look, nobody is forcing you to read to your kid. We all get that you’re a special snowflake who is bored by children’s books and that reading them makes your throat all scratchy. (And no, nobody wants to have a thread about why it hurts your throat - drink some water, okay?) But since you brought up the fact that people tend to lose patience and civility with you in these kinds of conversations, a more self aware person may spend a moment or two reflecting on why random people he’s never met get irritated with him on such a frequent basis. But not you. You play the (not) victim card and try to stake the high ground with the whole, “who? me?? why I never!”, act. So if you’re about to get the vapours, someone will fetch you the fainting sofa and the smelling salts. When you come to, try to reflect a little. …And, no, you still don’t have to read to your kid. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-to-kids-is-overrated/684510/75 "2014-03-28T12:43:51Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Never would have guessed you’d play the victim card. :rolleyes: What part of “I do not consider myself a victim” did you not get? > [@](#): > > I get the distinct impression that you’re the sort of person who would argue with a stump over the most trite detail of the least controversial subject. > > i.e. reading to kids. I obviously don’t agree with the “stump” or “trite” digs. However, if you were to accuse me of taking particular delight in finding an opportunity to challenge conventional wisdom (only when it is sincere, mind you–I don’t play devil’s advocate for its own sake), to defend a contrarian position? I’d happily cop to it. There are far too many unchallenged shibboleths out there that need a bit of puncturing or at least examination under new light. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-to-kids-is-overrated/684510/76 "2014-03-28T12:46:07Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > But it would be absolutely remarkable if the skills of reading were unique among human skills in not being effectively taught by having a master of the skill interact with a student of the skill. What do you think about iPad apps? It’s early days, but my daughter (who just turned four) sure seems to have learned a lot from hers. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-to-kids-is-overrated/684510/77 "2014-03-28T12:59:34Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I believe what you are getting at here is what would be known as “blaming the victim”, except that I do not consider myself a victim — > [@SlackerInc](#): > > What part of “I do not consider myself a victim” did you not get? The part where you were the first to use the word and characterize yourself in those terms. > [@SlackerInc](#): > > I obviously don’t agree with the “stump” or “trite” digs. However, if you were to accuse me of taking particular delight in finding an opportunity to challenge conventional wisdom (only when it is sincere, mind you–I don’t play devil’s advocate for its own sake), to defend a contrarian position? I’d happily cop to it. There are far too many unchallenged shibboleths out there that need a bit of puncturing or at least examination under new light. That you think reading to kids is one of the “unchallenged shibboleths” that needs challenging is what’s leading me to my humble opinion that you spend far too much time majoring in minor things, BECAUSE what you call “examination under new light” is nothing more than personal anecdotal argument. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-to-kids-is-overrated/684510/78 "2014-03-28T13:12:47Z")
Well, fuck you and your idiotic opinion. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-to-kids-is-overrated/684510/79 "2014-03-28T13:18:04Z")
:sigh: On the other hands, some things aren’t worth reading. Get a room, guys. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-to-kids-is-overrated/684510/80 "2014-03-28T13:42:16Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > What do you think about iPad apps? It’s early days, but my daughter (who just turned four) sure seems to have learned a lot from hers. I definitely think that good ones have a place: in my very limited experience (using my iPad with my own preschooler), they’re great at familiarizing kids with letter shapes and sounds and sight words, for example. As you say, though, it’s early days, and I don’t know how they compare to the integrated experience of a read-aloud, in which a lot of skills are modeled and practiced simultaneously. My daughter is obsessed with Redwall, and she also uses the books during read-alouds to practice sight words: “Daddy, does that say ‘the’?” But we also practice predictions, and ascribing character traits, and visualization, and emoting, and fluency, and a host of higher-order skills during these read-alouds. I don’t think read-aloud is the only way to teach. I do think, however, its’a very, very valuable tool in a parent’s toolkit, and for most kids, it’s gonna be one of the single best things a parent can do to support their kid’s literacy skills. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-to-kids-is-overrated/684510.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reading-to-kids-is-overrated/684510.md?page=5)