# Ready for another new war? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 19, 2004, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ready-for-another-new-war/255863 "2004-07-19T19:13:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2004, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ready-for-another-new-war/255863/21 "2004-07-19T20:47:24Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#): > > I don’t know… This does seem a little familiar:Looks an _awful_ lot like the “They’re preparing to attack us with WMD! September 11th! He’s a brutal dictator!” deal we’ve seen before, where the first two assertions are used to create emotional support for an attack, and when they turn out to be bullshit, the whole thing retroactively becomes an idealistic mission of liberation. > > The pathetic thing is that Iran currently has one of the few relatively pro-American populations in the Arab world. Not for long, I suspect. Care to place a little wager on it? PS: Persians are, well, Persian… not Arabs. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2004, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ready-for-another-new-war/255863/22 "2004-07-19T20:48:29Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > I think you’re over estimating the goodwill available. Spain pulled their troops from Iraq and put them into Afghanistan. I think governments are able to see legitimate actions as opposed to boondoggles, and decide for themselves. Sure, goodwill has been used up, but in such an egregious situation, I think most legitimate governments would recognize a certain legitimacy. Only after a thourough checking of the facts. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2004, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ready-for-another-new-war/255863/23 "2004-07-19T21:20:06Z")
> [@NurseCarmen](#): > > Spain pulled their troops from Iraq and put them into Afghanistan. I think governments are able to see legitimate actions as opposed to boondoggles, and decide for themselves. Sure, goodwill has been used up, but in such an egregious situation, I think most legitimate governments would recognize a certain legitimacy. Only after a thourough checking of the facts. Afghanistan was a broken state that had previously been in the news for blowing up cultural heirlooms that offended the Taliban’s delicate artistic tastes. Then they were directly tied to harbouring and refusing to hand over key members linked to the 9.11 attack. A broad based coalition was built and is currently patrolling Kabul. In short, there is a current investment in Afghanistan. Iran might be despotic but it is stable and integrated into the world system. You’re proposing that simply due to some peripheral involvement, the rest of the world should sign up to for an American “get even” war. It wont happen. Your current administration has insulted, berated, and ignored the views of your traditional allies with respect to Iraq. The publics in those nations (France, Canada, Germany, etc.) have no inclination whatsoever to deal with what they would perceive as more American war mongering. Governments that signed up to the Iraq war against the wishes of their electorate are hardly going to do it again. Those that didn’t sign up the first time are even less likely to now. Hell, you’d be lucky to bride Ghana into signing up. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2004, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ready-for-another-new-war/255863/24 "2004-07-19T21:29:58Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Ain’t gonna be no invasion of Iran. You seem to have forgotten that there wasn’t going to be an invasion of Iraq, until Saddam forced our hand. > [@](#): > > Today, no nation can possibly claim that Iraq has disarmed. And it will not disarm so long as Saddam Hussein holds power. For the last four-and-a-half months, the United States and our allies have worked within the Security Council to enforce that Council’s long-standing demands. Yet, some permanent members of the Security Council have publicly announced they will veto any resolution that compels the disarmament of Iraq. These governments share our assessment of the danger, but not our resolve to meet it. Many nations, however, do have the resolve and fortitude to act against this threat to peace, and a broad coalition is now gathering to enforce the just demands of the world. The United Nations Security Council has not lived up to its responsibilities, so we will rise to ours. > > In recent days, some governments in the Middle East have been doing their part. They have delivered public and private messages urging the dictator to leave Iraq, so that disarmament can proceed peacefully. He has thus far refused. All the decades of deceit and cruelty have now reached an end. Saddam Hussein and his sons must leave Iraq within 48 hours. Their refusal to do so will result in military conflict, commenced at a time of our choosing. For their own safety, all foreign nationals – including journalists and inspectors – should leave Iraq immediately. [President Says Saddam Hussein Must Leave Iraq Within 48 Hours](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/03/20030317-7.html) Our president, went reluctantly into Iraq in the face of criminal defiance by its regime. I’m certain that Iran can be coaxed into the sort of defiant attitude that would force even our president, a man of peace, to invade _them_, when the time is right. ---
**Author:** ![malkavia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malkavia/32/5621_2.png) [@malkavia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/malkavia)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2004, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ready-for-another-new-war/255863/25 "2004-07-19T21:32:53Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Ain’t gonna be no invasion of Iran. I think that most of us thought the same thing about Iraq. “Fool me once, uhhhh… can’t–not–not gonna fool me again.” ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2004, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ready-for-another-new-war/255863/26 "2004-07-19T21:49:16Z")
**Squink** , it´s just me or that quote makes others blood boil? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2004, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ready-for-another-new-war/255863/27 "2004-07-19T21:52:50Z")
In your view(s), are there ever any legitimate reasons to invade another country, and if so, what are they? ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2004, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ready-for-another-new-war/255863/28 "2004-07-19T22:14:57Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > You’re proposing that simply due to **some peripheral involvement** , the rest of the world should sign up to for an American “get even” war. Please do not put words in my mouth. I was responding to El\_KaBong, > [@](#): > > If there were concrete evidence that Iran had in fact aided the 9/11 hijackers I take from that 'aided" isn’t peripheral. If the Iranians put them up in a hotel room and bought them a basket of dates, fine. If they were involved in the preperation or execution of a terror attack on the United States, then there is justification for retaliation by the US. That said, I strongly doubt any evidence will turn up. I think this is just another round of BS by this administration. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2004, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ready-for-another-new-war/255863/29 "2004-07-19T22:15:26Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > Oh spare me. The problem of dual citizenship and various countries not recognizing the other’s claim is hardly a call to war. > :rolleyes: Yeah; if that were our game plan, we’d pretty much have to go to war with [the US first.](http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maher_Arar) ---
**Author:** ![ArrMatey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/arrmatey/32/3522_2.png) [@ArrMatey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArrMatey)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2004, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ready-for-another-new-war/255863/30 "2004-07-19T22:17:42Z")
Methinks that’s a GD topic, not a Pit topic. Unless you were just being facetious? ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2004, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ready-for-another-new-war/255863/31 "2004-07-19T22:18:48Z")
True. The whole dual citizenship issue is a mess that needs sorting. ---
**Author:** ![ArrMatey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/arrmatey/32/3522_2.png) [@ArrMatey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArrMatey)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2004, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ready-for-another-new-war/255863/32 "2004-07-19T22:20:52Z")
Gah. My last post was directed at **Captain Amazing** ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2004, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ready-for-another-new-war/255863/33 "2004-07-19T22:27:05Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Certain Bush-whackers around here would have a lot more credibility if they bashed Bush for things he actually does instead of moaning about things they think he might do. > So let’s just get this straight: > > Ain’t gonna be no draft… I don’t recall saying there would be. > [@](#): > > Ain’t gonna be no cancelation of the election… Funny, I don’t recall saying that would happen. > [@](#): > > Ain’t gonna be no Bush-engineered terror attack… Wow, I’m 0 for 3 so far. > [@](#): > > Ain’t gonna be no invasion of Iran. Didn’t say that either, just said I wouldn’t put it past him. > [@](#): > > Now, we return you to the originally scheduled program. We sure can. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2004, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ready-for-another-new-war/255863/34 "2004-07-19T22:29:03Z")
> [@NurseCarmen](#): > > I take from that 'aided" isn’t peripheral. If the Iranians put them up in a hotel room and bought them a basket of dates, fine. If they were involved in the preperation or execution of a terror attack on the United States, then there is justification for retaliation by the US. > > That said, I strongly doubt any evidence will turn up. I think this is just another round of BS by this administration. Well from [Reuters](http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=politicsNews&storyID=5709989%5B/url) > [@](#): > > Former CIA director Robert Gates, who co-authored a Council on Foreign Relations report on Iran, said al Qaeda “probably has either, if not used Iran as base, then used it for safe passage and various other things.” > Former national security adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski, who worked with Gates, said reports of the passage through Iran of al Qaeda operatives prior to Sept. 11, 2001 is “not direct evidence that they are complicit in 9/11.” Currently, that’s the extent of aid. Looks pretty peripheral to me. Even if they did more, it’s too late to garner international support. You’ve hammered Afghanistan (justifiably), flattened Iraq (mistakenly) and would now be proposing a third target? Only the most die hard supporter of American could swallow supporting that. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2004, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ready-for-another-new-war/255863/35 "2004-07-19T22:43:21Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > Currently, that’s the extent of aid. Looks pretty peripheral to me. That certainly doesn’t meet, or even come close, to the level of involvment needed to justify action > [@](#): > > Even if they did more, it’s too late to garner international support. We’ll have to agree to disagree. I think the civilized world would be okay to see them punished if there was concrete evidence that they were behind the attacks or involved in the planning and execution. And a coalition could be pretty easily built, even if the members were saying what idiots the US are by going into Iraq at the same time as they built up their troops. Like I said, the evidence would have to be damn solid, and triple checked, but in the end it comes down to not letting that sort of thing slide. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2004, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ready-for-another-new-war/255863/36 "2004-07-19T22:48:04Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > I don’t recall saying there would be. I don’t recall saying you did. > [@](#): > > Funny, I don’t recall saying that would happen. Funny, I don’t recall saying you did. > [@](#): > > Wow, I’m 0 for 3 so far. Good for you. > [@](#): > > Didn’t say that either, just said I wouldn’t put it past him. Didn’t say you did. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2004, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ready-for-another-new-war/255863/37 "2004-07-19T22:50:37Z")
Well can you explain to me how a US administration would argue the merits of kicking over a stable nation with a domestic democratic movement to the rest of the world given the past 2 years? If it was an Iranian planed operation performed by AQ, then the US looks foolish for chasing phantoms for 3 years. If it was an AQ operation with some logistics help from Iran, then the US looks foolish for implying a link between Iraq and AQ. A mistake that it would look to rectify by invading Iran. How would you manage to get the world at large to trust you? ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2004, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ready-for-another-new-war/255863/38 "2004-07-19T22:50:37Z")
Cool, just making sure that brush ain’t touching me. ---
**Author:** ![Wolfian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7ea924/32.png) [@Wolfian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolfian)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2004, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ready-for-another-new-war/255863/39 "2004-07-19T22:59:28Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > PS: Persians are, well, Persian… not Arabs. No, no, no. [Persians](http://faqs.ign.com/articles/435/435021p1.html) are Classy Cat Pokémon. They evolve from Meowths at level 28 and they suck. Bomb Iran with shiny objects and balls of yarn and we’ve have the country paralyzed within 12 hours. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2004, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ready-for-another-new-war/255863/40 "2004-07-19T23:04:40Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > Well can you explain to me how a US administration would argue the merits of kicking over a stable nation with a domestic democratic movement to the rest of the world given the past 2 years? > > If it was an Iranian planed operation performed by AQ, then the US looks foolish for chasing phantoms for 3 years. > > If it was an AQ operation with some logistics help from Iran, then the US looks foolish for implying a link between Iraq and AQ. A mistake that it would look to rectify by invading Iran. > > How would you manage to get the world at large to trust you? Speaking of all this, doesn’t Iran have a right to premeptively attack us? Didn’t Iraq? NK? This is a can of worms we should have left sealed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ready-for-another-new-war/255863.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ready-for-another-new-war/255863.md?page=3)