# real conspiracies, if any **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 3, 2003, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-conspiracies-if-any/205344 "2003-10-03T14:56:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-conspiracies-if-any/205344/1 "2003-10-03T14:56:49Z")
Having been debunked of a recent conspriacy I had believed in, and also starting to wonder about all the others, i must ask- Has there ever been a real proven conspiracy? (do not say the Chicago 7-that wasn’t a conspiracy either!) Has any of the so-called nutty conspirator believers been proven right? Ever? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/47e85d/32.png) [@Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Lance_Murdoch)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-conspiracies-if-any/205344/2 "2003-10-03T14:59:06Z")
Well, there was the Watergate cover-up. ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-conspiracies-if-any/205344/3 "2003-10-03T15:02:47Z")
The risk of conspiracy skepticism is that it can become as cultlike and dogmatic as the most ridiculous conspiracy theory. People make “there is no such thing as conspiracy” part of their identity and then claim that all possible conspiracies are just “delusions” and no “skeptic” could ever believe them. However, here are some fairly well documented conspiracies: Assassination of Abraham Lincoln. The US Constitution (it was technically treason to write it and the Constitutional Convention felt it necessary to keep its meeting proceedings a secret). ---
**Author:** ![t-keela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@t-keela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/t-keela)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-conspiracies-if-any/205344/4 "2003-10-03T15:23:59Z")
Let’s not forget the **Cecil** conspiracy. I know some of the mods and admins know the truth…they just aren’t talking. I thought the **Illuminati** was a real conspiracy, historically speaking. Seems like the Catholic Church has some secrets in its past. I don’t know what the current Whitehouse actions might be termed. Then there’s Iran/Contra. Hey **vanilla** , How about a good definition for conspiracy? Does it have to be secretive or subversive, covert w/ a hidden agenda or just something that involves members who aren’t quite forthcoming with the truth? Webster’s definition really isn’t very clear. **Conspiracy** 1. the act of conspiring 2. an agreement among conspirators 3. a group of conspirators **Conspire** 1. to join in a secret agreement to do an unlawful act 2. to scheme, plot , contrive 3. to act in harmony toward a common end The previous definitions could describe a lot of behavior. ---
**Author:** ![ali0r](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@ali0r](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ali0r)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-conspiracies-if-any/205344/5 "2003-10-03T15:52:17Z")
[www.abovetopsecret.com](http://www.abovetopsecret.com) is always good for a laugh/conspiracy theory or 2… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![QuizCustodet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ba0ec/32.png) [@QuizCustodet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuizCustodet)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-conspiracies-if-any/205344/6 "2003-10-03T16:05:32Z")
In a historical sense, you might want to consider the ‘Know Nothings’, or the American party. As the former name suggests, this was initially a secret organization - members were meant to reply to any queries about the group. In a sense, it succeeded too well - it got so many members that the whole secrecy thing became a bit pointless, and it metamorphosed into the American Party, which lost out to the Republican party when it split North/South. (In the interests of fighting ignorance: this is a considerably simplified version of one aspect of the complicated events between 1850-1860: for more depth, you might want to consult Hugh Brogin’s history of the US) ---
**Author:** ![QuizCustodet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ba0ec/32.png) [@QuizCustodet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuizCustodet)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-conspiracies-if-any/205344/7 "2003-10-03T16:07:20Z")
Apologies for the typo. The end of the first paragraph of my last post should read: … members were meant to reply to any queries about the group by saying ‘I know nothing’. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-conspiracies-if-any/205344/8 "2003-10-03T16:09:34Z")
Interestingly, a lot of people make a big deal about Kennedy conspiracies (for both John and Robert, and even Ted), but seem to know or care little about Lincoln’s assassination, which really _was_ the result of a conspiracy of fanatical southerners. On the same night Booth shot Lincoln, Lewis Powell went after Secretary of State William Seward in his home, stabbing him several times (not fatally) and seriously injuring Seward’s son, Frederick, as well as two members of Seward’s staff. David Herold was supposed to kill Vice-President Johnson that night, but never made the attempt. As I understand it, this conspiracy doesn’t invite a lot of speculation (though some think John Wilkes Booth managed to escape, or was deliberately killed by overzealous Union troops, or something) because in the subsequent trials, the conspiracy was pretty thorougly and publicly examined, while Kennedy’s assassination remains shrouded in (imaginary) mystery. [Reference](http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/lincolnconspiracy/lincolnconspiracy.html) ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-conspiracies-if-any/205344/9 "2003-10-03T16:36:12Z")
Conspiracies exists. **Grand** conspiracies don’t. A small group of people can get together to perform illegal acts. However, they are usually found out relatively quickly (Lincoln’s assassins were captured within a few months). It is the nature of conspiracies to fall apart, especially once an illegal act is performed. Someone blabs, or someone else makes a mistake. However, the more people in the conspiracy, the harder it is for it to succeed. Something like the JFK assassination would have taken dozens, if not hundreds, of people. How did the people get recruited? Isn’t is surprising that, when that many people told about plans to assassinate JFK, no one thought it might be a bad idea? And if small conspiracies are usually found out within a short time, a larger one would be discovered even sooner, since there are more people involved, and too many weak links. **Dogface** – it wasn’t treason to work on the Constitution – the US was independent and those there were duly appointed to make changes in the Articles of Confederation. It **was** treason to work on the Declaration of Independence, however. ---
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-conspiracies-if-any/205344/10 "2003-10-03T16:42:48Z")
The outing of the CIA operative might well turn into a conspiracy. Ashcroft is plainly biased, Dubya is resisting investigative efforts. The problem is our president doesn’t read newspapers, much less books. Probably, he is only vaguely aware of Watergate, and how the coverup cost Nixon his presidency. ---
**Author:** ![5-HT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/f19dbf/32.png) [@5-HT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5-HT)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-conspiracies-if-any/205344/11 "2003-10-03T16:44:36Z")
I believe the P2 conspiracy involving the vatican bank was real. It even involved masons. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-conspiracies-if-any/205344/12 "2003-10-03T17:32:09Z")
vanilla: Which conspiracy theory was it you recently chucked? ---
**Author:** ![NoCoolUserName](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5fc32e/32.png) [@NoCoolUserName](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoCoolUserName)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-conspiracies-if-any/205344/13 "2003-10-03T20:22:37Z")
The [Diamonds](http://edwardjayepstein.com/diamond/chap18.htm) conspiracy. The [url=]“Great Electrical Conspiracy”…in 1960 45 executives of various electric companies were indicted for price fixing government contracts (couldn’t find an actual cite, just this reference). This went on for years. I studied it in Business School, but don’t remember much… ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_B.Phart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Capt\_B.Phart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt_B.Phart)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-conspiracies-if-any/205344/14 "2003-10-03T22:39:21Z")
[The United Fruit Company’s conspiracy](http://www.mayaparadise.com/ufc1e.htm) to portray the democratic Guatemalan Gov as communist in the US and then have it overthrown by a US inspired coup so they could keep it as their pet Banana Republic must rank highly as successful (and cynical). ---
**Author:** ![stockton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@stockton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stockton)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2003, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-conspiracies-if-any/205344/15 "2003-10-04T03:06:38Z")
I read about a conspiracy involving a bunch of Saudis and some airliners a few years back. I think there was something about it on TV, too. Something about hijacks, if I remember it correctly… Are you seriously asking: “Has there ever been a real proven conspiracy?” ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2003, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-conspiracies-if-any/205344/16 "2003-10-04T18:27:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > \*\*vanilla: Which conspiracy theory was it you recently chucked? \*\* The one I had mentioned in Spiff’s thread, about the 9-11 being orchestrated by the U.S. government a la David Icke. Also JFK and others. I really don’t think nowadasy that the conspriacies that the “conspriacy nuts” believe are so. Twas fun belieivng it though.:rolleyes: Some people, the hollow earth, the ufo’s the faked moon landing. ! Not crazy, legally, but…odd. hi Monty!) ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2003, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-conspiracies-if-any/205344/17 "2003-10-04T18:41:23Z")
NOW I believe in one. my sig 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2003, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-conspiracies-if-any/205344/18 "2003-10-04T19:18:04Z")
Isn’t Microsoft Corporation by definition a conspiracy? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2003, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-conspiracies-if-any/205344/19 "2003-10-05T02:27:43Z")
The group of German officers who tried to assassinate Hitler seem to count as conspirators. No cite from me, but it’s fairly well known incident. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2003, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-conspiracies-if-any/205344/20 "2003-10-05T02:43:30Z")
Right… there are conspiracies all the time, it’s the so-called “Grand Conspiracies”, the Illuminati/Roswell/Moon Landing variety, that don’t add up. In any case, “secret government”-type operations are not technically conspiracies – they are part of the actual ruling system, just a part that we footsoldiers do not need to know about. (Oh, and as for the Illuminati, I think Cecil’s take on it is that they’re much bigger in after-the-fact perception than they were in actual time: [http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1\_043.html](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_043.html) [http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2\_295.html](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_295.html) [http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a5\_022.html](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a5_022.html)) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-conspiracies-if-any/205344.md?page=2)