# Real estate close enough to Berkeley to commute, cheap enough to actually buy/rent **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 12, 2013, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-estate-close-enough-to-berkeley-to-commute-cheap-enough-to-actually-buy-rent/676132 "2013-12-12T03:02:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-estate-close-enough-to-berkeley-to-commute-cheap-enough-to-actually-buy-rent/676132/21 "2013-12-12T15:50:54Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > You shouldn’t decline the interview opportunity. If they’re flying you out, they must think you’re worthwhile. Wait to see what the offer (if any) is and then decide. They’re _not_ flying me out. I have to fly _myself_ out, and as I said, this will cost (with hotel etc) nearly a thousand dollars. Spending that much money on something that’s by no means even close to a sure bet, when even if I _do_ “win” the interview it may turn out I can’t take the job anyway–I am not sure this is wise. That’s why I was mulling over talking about salary beforehand. I only want to even interview for the job if it’ll pay at least a certain amount. This amount is right about in the center of the range of salaries listed on the job posting. So I have no idea whether it’ll actually be offered or not. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-estate-close-enough-to-berkeley-to-commute-cheap-enough-to-actually-buy-rent/676132/22 "2013-12-12T15:52:14Z")
> [@lazybratsche](#): > > Can’t you at least find out average salaries for that company or comparable jobs in the Bay Area? I have to imagine that they’re going to pay a living wage (even if their definition of “liveable” doesn’t match your own). After all, isn’t the high cost of living in the area due to the concentration of high-paying tech jobs? Liveable varies from family size to family size, and number of incomes. It appears to me that the salary range listed for this position would be enough for a single person, or a family with two incomes. Unfortunately, I am a large family with only one income. ---
**Author:** ![Twoflower](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/twoflower/32/22_2.png) [@Twoflower](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Twoflower)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-estate-close-enough-to-berkeley-to-commute-cheap-enough-to-actually-buy-rent/676132/23 "2013-12-12T17:01:57Z")
A quick Craigslist search tells me you can probably find what you’re looking for in Vallejo/Benicia or Pittsburg/Antioch. Both those areas have neighborhoods you’d definitely want to avoid, but I’d suggest at least checking those areas first. From Pittsburg you have BART access as well. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-estate-close-enough-to-berkeley-to-commute-cheap-enough-to-actually-buy-rent/676132/24 "2013-12-12T17:20:26Z")
Rents in and anywhere remotely near San Francisco have gone bananas in the past couple of years. Even if they offer you the salary you’re hoping, you may be unpleasantly surprised by what you can actually get in your budget right now. Have you done a phone interview with them already? Or is this your first interview? If you’ve done a phone interview and feel like they liked you, you might tell them you’re interested but need them to pay for the flight for the in person interview. If they actually want you, that should be a no-brainer: compared to the cost of a full time employee’s salary and benefits, a plane ticket is nothing. If they balk at that, they either don’t really want you or are a lot more poor/frugal than you’re going to want in a Bay Area employer. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-estate-close-enough-to-berkeley-to-commute-cheap-enough-to-actually-buy-rent/676132/25 "2013-12-12T17:49:02Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > They’re _not_ flying me out. I have to fly _myself_ out, and as I said, this will cost (with hotel etc) nearly a thousand dollars. Spending that much money on something that’s by no means even close to a sure bet, when even if I _do_ “win” the interview it may turn out I can’t take the job anyway–I am not sure this is wise. > > That’s why I was mulling over talking about salary beforehand. I only want to even interview for the job if it’ll pay at least a certain amount. This amount is right about in the center of the range of salaries listed on the job posting. So I have no idea whether it’ll actually be offered or not. I’ve been flown out for every job I’ve ever interviewed for (except when interviewing locally). If you are going to pay that much I think it is perfectly acceptable to ask a lot more questions. If they are cheap in that regard, they may be cheap in pay also. You should also ask in detail about your competition. It could be that they are not all that interested in you, but are willing to spend a day on your dime. If it is a tech job there are tons of good candidates within driving distance, who might be preferable. I traveled all of about 12 miles to interview for my current job. Are they aware that you have to pay? They might be happy to pay, or at least do another round of phone screening. As for housing, Berkley is incredibly expensive because you are competing with college kids, who get kicked out of the dorms after a year. I live south of there, and there is no way you can get anything for $1200. If you want an idea of neighborhood quality, check out the statistics for school test scores. They correlate well to housing prices. When we were looking for houses that is what real estate agents showed us. Not having kids you can save some money by going for lower scored areas, but you don’t want to go too low. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-estate-close-enough-to-berkeley-to-commute-cheap-enough-to-actually-buy-rent/676132/26 "2013-12-12T17:51:24Z")
Whatever the company is, they’re likely to be offering more just because you’re not the only one who’s been in this situation. Market rates in the Bay Area have inflated along with rents. The tactful way of broaching this is to inquire whether this is commensurate with your current salary when adjusted for cost of living. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-estate-close-enough-to-berkeley-to-commute-cheap-enough-to-actually-buy-rent/676132/27 "2013-12-12T18:31:07Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > I am starting to think I am going to have to decline the interview. But that’s insane! > > OTOH maybe refusing to pay to fly out interviewees is their way of selecting against somethingerotheridon’tcaretospeculate. If you lived in Berkeley, and wanted to get a job in Manhattan, you’d feel the same way. With every location there’s a tradeoff between price and amenities, of course. > [@Twoflower](#): > > A quick Craigslist search tells me you can probably find what you’re looking for in Vallejo/Benicia or Pittsburg/Antioch. Both those areas have neighborhoods you’d definitely want to avoid, but I’d suggest at least checking those areas first. From Pittsburg you have BART access as well. Yep, both bad neighborhoods, although some bad Pittsburg parts split off into the CDP of Bay Point. Vallejo’s a shorter drive, but costs an extra ~$5/day in tolls. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-estate-close-enough-to-berkeley-to-commute-cheap-enough-to-actually-buy-rent/676132/28 "2013-12-12T18:38:46Z")
To add a little info to clarify some things: What I have now is an email stating I’m a “semi-finalist” and that I will be contact to schedule an interview soon. In addition to this, I have the text of the job position listing which states specifically that no skype or phone interviews are allowed by policy, and that no monetary assistance for interviews is allowed by policy. I put this together to mean they’re contacting me to schedule an in-person interview that I will have to pay for. However, on further reflection this morning, these possibilities occur to me: 1. Maybe the no-skype/phone-interview rule only applies to _final_ interviews, and perhaps this isn’t one of those. 2. Maybe what the job posting says is not allowed may actually happen anyway, as I know that practice often differs from protocol… So right now I’m just waiting for the forthcoming contact, and I’ll see what develops. I was in over-planning mode last night, due to excitement over somebody actually liking me for something. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-estate-close-enough-to-berkeley-to-commute-cheap-enough-to-actually-buy-rent/676132/29 "2013-12-12T18:51:08Z")
> [@iftheresaway](#): > > You MIGHT find something along the I80, Dixon/ Fairfield/ Vacaville, or a bit further in Winters. I lived in Dixon about 14 years ago and it was a pretty nice place. I lived in Fairfield back in 2002, and the cheapest one-bedroom that I could find that was in a “decent” part of the city was something like $1100/month. Anything north of there is borderline “commute distance to Berkeley.” Also, don’t forget that anything from Vallejo north adds $100/month in bridge tolls. There is one alternative to consider; buying a condo/townhouse. Prices haven’t rebounded from the housing crash yet, and with a decent rate, the mortgage shouldn’t be that much more than $1300/month, although that doesn’t include the condo fees. IIRC, the main problems with trying to rent in Berkeley are, (a) it’s rent controlled, so there aren’t that many places available, and (b) you have to compete with university students for what is available. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-estate-close-enough-to-berkeley-to-commute-cheap-enough-to-actually-buy-rent/676132/30 "2013-12-12T18:53:54Z")
We briefly looked at buying, and everything within many many miles that we could see was over half a million dollars. Are you saying there are (3-bedroom or more) homes available for substantially less than that? ---
**Author:** ![raspberry\_hunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@raspberry\_hunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raspberry_hunter)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-estate-close-enough-to-berkeley-to-commute-cheap-enough-to-actually-buy-rent/676132/31 "2013-12-12T20:09:09Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > To add a little info to clarify some things: > > What I have now is an email stating I’m a “semi-finalist” and that I will be contact to schedule an interview soon. In addition to this, I have the text of the job position listing which states specifically that no skype or phone interviews are allowed by policy, and that no monetary assistance for interviews is allowed by policy. A semi-finalist? Is this a job posting or a contest? No monetary assistance for interviews? This is setting off _all_ my alarm bells. If you can say, what sort of job / general industry is it? Basically, everything that **Voyager** said. And it makes no sense not to allow at least a phone screen. Additionally, the fact that they want to say up-front that they will give NO monetary assistance for interviews, by policy, is really, really odd and offputting. (Even if Voyager is right and they’d prefer local candidates, which is one possibility, there’s always that star candidate who happens to live in another state…) I’m half worrying that their next move will be to ask you for money. If they do that, run. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-estate-close-enough-to-berkeley-to-commute-cheap-enough-to-actually-buy-rent/676132/32 "2013-12-12T20:33:31Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > To add a little info to clarify some things: > > What I have now is an email stating I’m a “semi-finalist” and that I will be contact to schedule an interview soon. In addition to this, I have the text of the job position listing which states specifically that no skype or phone interviews are allowed by policy, and that no monetary assistance for interviews is allowed by policy. The phrase “semi-finalist” sets off all sorts of red flags for me, it sounds _really_ scammy. I’m also highly dubious that they preemptively say they can’t do things remotely or pay for anything “by policy” – companies that have a policy of not putting any money into the interview process are companies that don’t give a shit about getting the best people. Another big red flag. I’d be interested to know what kind of business this is. You don’t want to get out there and find out they want you to sell Amway or Cutco knives or something. > [@Frylock](#): > > We briefly looked at buying, and everything within many many miles that we could see was over half a million dollars. Are you saying there are (3-bedroom or more) homes available for substantially less than that? If you can find a house within less than an hour’s driving distance of Berkeley that only costs $500k, there’s a good chance it was actually on fire when it was listed. I would be skeptical of someone who worked in Berkeley trying to buy a condo with a $500k budget, let alone a standalone house. In Bay Area real estate, the question is not “is it over a half a million dollars?” the question is “how far over half a million dollars is it?” It’s pretty fucked up. ---
**Author:** ![Caldazar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Caldazar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caldazar)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-estate-close-enough-to-berkeley-to-commute-cheap-enough-to-actually-buy-rent/676132/33 "2013-12-12T20:34:25Z")
The most viable option in your price range is probably going to be the Pittsburg/Bay Point area, as **Twoflower** mentioned. You could probably also find something in budget in the El Cerrito/Richmond areas, but there can be crime and safety concerns in parts of those latter areas. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-estate-close-enough-to-berkeley-to-commute-cheap-enough-to-actually-buy-rent/676132/34 "2013-12-12T20:41:33Z")
I assume he researched this company. It doesn’t sound like a scam to me, but rather like a company which recruits locally instead of nationally. Clearly a low level job is not going to include interview support or relocation, but a higher level job will. It has to be worth it to them to get the right candidate. “Policy” means we don’t feel like doing this. “Policy” might include no time off to see the doctor, or working 12 hour days, or any number of things. I can certainly see why they’d want the final interview to be in person. BTW, the Bay Area is a hot job market now. If you choose to spend the money to go, see if you can set up some other interviews while you are there. As for houses - the House Hunters shown on Tuesday night’s first segment was set in my town. The two guys looking for a house had a budget of $400K. Might be interesting to see what you could get - it was done in July, so prices have gone up since then. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-estate-close-enough-to-berkeley-to-commute-cheap-enough-to-actually-buy-rent/676132/35 "2013-12-12T21:18:38Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Yep, both bad neighborhoods, although some bad Pittsburg parts split off into the CDP of Bay Point. Vallejo’s a shorter drive, but costs an extra ~$5/day in tolls. Oops, missing a crucial verb. Both **have** bad neighborhoods, but nothing wrong with Pittsburg or Vallejo themselves. > [@Caldazar](#): > > The most viable option in your price range is probably going to be the Pittsburg/Bay Point area, as **Twoflower** mentioned. You could probably also find something in budget in the El Cerrito/Richmond areas, but there can be crime and safety concerns in parts of those latter areas. Just a few blocks there make all the difference. You can usually tell just by MapViewing it. Can’t share a house? I recommend moving in with a giant milkshake and a piece of ground meat, but they’re not so good on paying rent on time. Over $500,000 is typical. You could find cheaper but research the neighborhood first. “Semi-finalist” doesn’t _necessarily_ sounds scammy to me. Many jobs have multiple stages. I wouldn’t use that term in my letter, though. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-estate-close-enough-to-berkeley-to-commute-cheap-enough-to-actually-buy-rent/676132/36 "2013-12-12T21:56:31Z")
I guess there’s no real reason to not refer to the name of the place. It’s an interview with Berkeley City College that I’m discussing. Don’t know if that adds any useful information, but it might. ---
**Author:** ![moejoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@moejoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moejoe)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-estate-close-enough-to-berkeley-to-commute-cheap-enough-to-actually-buy-rent/676132/37 "2013-12-12T22:40:58Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > I guess there’s no real reason to not refer to the name of the place. It’s an interview with Berkeley City College that I’m discussing. Don’t know if that adds any useful information, but it might. If the staff is union you can probably find the salary step scale somewhere on the HR website. I grew up in the Bay Area and it’s really wonderful, but there are a lot of people living in the communities mentioned in this thread only because that’s all they can afford. In other words there’s almost nothing to recommend them except rents below $3000/month. If you’re in a bad situation and need to make a move then do what you gotta do, but I wouldn’t move to the BA for a low wage job. For the most part the whole area is income segregated, so you’ll want to think hard about school quality and crime rates where you’ll be forced to live. There are much prettier, more reasonably priced places to go if you have the option. ETA: Also, and this is just the instinct of a local girl, but I think anyone who would pay for their own flight out to interview might zoom to the bottom of the hire list just as a function of seeming desperate. If you do it, maybe find a way to let slide that you’ll be there on other business anyway so you can fit in an interview while you’re already there. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-estate-close-enough-to-berkeley-to-commute-cheap-enough-to-actually-buy-rent/676132/38 "2013-12-12T23:28:24Z")
> [@moejoe](#): > > ETA: Also, and this is just the instinct of a local girl, but I think anyone who would pay for their own flight out to interview might zoom to the bottom of the hire list just as a function of seeming desperate. If you do it, maybe find a way to let slide that you’ll be there on other business anyway so you can fit in an interview while you’re already there. I would assume most of the interviewees are from out of state, heck, possibly all of them. If that’s so, then one candidate flying in would look no more desperate than the rest. ---
**Author:** ![markdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@markdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markdash)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-estate-close-enough-to-berkeley-to-commute-cheap-enough-to-actually-buy-rent/676132/39 "2013-12-12T23:39:00Z")
I live in a 3-bedroom, 2-bath house in a town called Pinole which is about 12 miles from Berkeley (it’s closer than either Pittsburg or Vallejo). The Zillow estimate for our house is about $315k. While it’s not luxury accommodations, my wife and I are perfectly happy in our house, and the area is safe and the neighbors are friendly enough. A pretty normal bedroom community, I would say. Houses in decent/good parts of Richmond, San Pablo, Hercules, Pinole, and Rodeo should be well under $500k. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2013, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-estate-close-enough-to-berkeley-to-commute-cheap-enough-to-actually-buy-rent/676132/40 "2013-12-13T00:07:27Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > Whatever the company is, they’re likely to be offering more just because you’re not the only one who’s been in this situation. Market rates in the Bay Area have inflated along with rents. > > The tactful way of broaching this is to inquire whether this is commensurate with your current salary when adjusted for cost of living. Though honestly, not by that much. Over the years my husband has had “opportunities” in the Bay Area, as have I (more for him than for me). They do NOT pay enough to make up for the difference in housing in the Midwest - they THINK they do, and are a little shocked when you look at them and say “I make that now, why would I move to a place where the schools are worse and I’d get half the house for four times as much money.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-estate-close-enough-to-berkeley-to-commute-cheap-enough-to-actually-buy-rent/676132.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-estate-close-enough-to-berkeley-to-commute-cheap-enough-to-actually-buy-rent/676132.md?page=3)