# Real hobbits, or a new Homo in Indonesia **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 27, 2004, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-hobbits-or-a-new-homo-in-indonesia/271451 "2004-10-27T15:27:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-hobbits-or-a-new-homo-in-indonesia/271451/1 "2004-10-27T15:27:10Z")
Not much news yet on the web, but supposedly from a Nature article. > [@](#): > > THE discovery by Australian scientists on the Indonesian island of Flores of an entirely new humanoid species - colloquially dubbed “hobbits” because of their diminutive stature The scientific name for them seems to be Homo floresiensis. BUT I can find no mention on the Nature site. So is this a hoax? Or something new and special … ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-hobbits-or-a-new-homo-in-indonesia/271451/2 "2004-10-27T15:29:17Z")
[Linkity-link](http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,11207895%255E663,00.html) ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-hobbits-or-a-new-homo-in-indonesia/271451/3 "2004-10-27T15:33:45Z")
Interestingly three other news links at Google have all had the stories removed - hoax? If not, wow! ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-hobbits-or-a-new-homo-in-indonesia/271451/4 "2004-10-27T16:58:35Z")
The idea of these wee folk walking about as recently as 12,000 years ago is pretty boggling. It will be interesting to see if the _homo_ taxonomy sticks. Blimey! ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-hobbits-or-a-new-homo-in-indonesia/271451/5 "2004-10-27T17:49:47Z")
Well, the International press are now running with the story [Reuters](http://olympics.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=scienceNews&storyID=6631254) Seriously another Hominid allive only 18,000 years ago if true is an incredable find. Questions of possible interbreeding with modern humans and discovering any ‘society’ of these tool using recent hominids. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-hobbits-or-a-new-homo-in-indonesia/271451/6 "2004-10-27T18:26:53Z")
Wonder what happened to them all? Do you suppose Frodo was unable to get the ring to Mt. Doom after all? ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-hobbits-or-a-new-homo-in-indonesia/271451/7 "2004-10-27T18:34:49Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > Wonder what happened to them all? Do you suppose Frodo was unable to get the ring to Mt. Doom after all? That would explain a lot… ---
**Author:** ![Beadalin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Beadalin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beadalin)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-hobbits-or-a-new-homo-in-indonesia/271451/8 "2004-10-27T18:48:46Z")
> [@](#): > > Wonder what happened to them all? Do you suppose Frodo was unable to get the ring to Mt. Doom after all? Well… > [@](#): > > (From the Reuters article) > The scientists suspect the new species became extinct after a massive volcanic eruption on the island about 12,000 years ago. There certainly was a Mt. Doom involved. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-hobbits-or-a-new-homo-in-indonesia/271451/9 "2004-10-27T19:01:09Z")
> [@](#): > > The scientists have pieced together an image of a hairless, dark-skinned dwarf species with a head the size of a grapefruit, a retreating forehead, sunken eyes, a flat nose, large teeth, and virtually no chin. They sound, by this description, a bit more like Gollum than Frodo. > [@](#): > > Scientists regard Flores – between Bali and Timor – as a kind of Lost World. > > They believe the hobbits fit in with other bizarre extinct fauna from the island, including a dwarf form of the primitive elephant known as the stegodon, full-sized komodo dragons and giant lizards. And this sounds like a B-movie setting. Maybe the hobbits were dragon and lizard food. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-hobbits-or-a-new-homo-in-indonesia/271451/10 "2004-10-27T19:02:07Z")
Pygmies, by definition are a group of people with an average height of less than 5 feet (alternatively, 1.5 meters). There is evidence that at least one tribe of African pygmies never experiences the growth spurt associated with puberty and remain 10 years old in stature for the rest of their days. Studies of other tribes suggest nutrition (or poor quality thereof) is the root of the small size. What’s so flabbergasting about the possibility of an inbred population of H.sapiens that became genetically pygmie AND malnourished? It would certainly explain their containment to an island–if any got off the island their kids would have a better shot at decent nutrition and maybe grow up to be simply, but unimpressively “short.” Either that or they’d just disappear quickly and quietly at the approach of “big people.” ---
**Author:** ![sugaree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@sugaree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugaree)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-hobbits-or-a-new-homo-in-indonesia/271451/11 "2004-10-27T19:08:55Z")
They are not homo sapiens, **Inigo**. This is a totally new little species. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-hobbits-or-a-new-homo-in-indonesia/271451/12 "2004-10-27T19:26:58Z")
Actually, except for the dark-skinned part (how do they know that?), they could be eloi. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-hobbits-or-a-new-homo-in-indonesia/271451/13 "2004-10-27T20:00:50Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > they could be eloi. eloi? or…moorlocks? Back to my question: How do they know they are not stunted H sapiens mutants? I’m open to the idea that they are a new little species, but why must they be? What is it about these bones, apart from being small, that makes them clearly NOT smal pygmies? We could never get away with calling pygmies non-human.(I’ve always wanted a little brother!) ---
**Author:** ![Jenny\_Haniver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Jenny\_Haniver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenny_Haniver)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-hobbits-or-a-new-homo-in-indonesia/271451/14 "2004-10-27T20:03:49Z")
[Posting another Associated Press story](http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/health/bal-cavewoman1027,1,3120466.story?coll=bal-home-headlines), as seen in the Baltimore Sun, although you may have to register to read it. It has some additional information from the previous link. ---
**Author:** ![sugaree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@sugaree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugaree)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-hobbits-or-a-new-homo-in-indonesia/271451/15 "2004-10-27T20:16:31Z")
> [@Inigo Montoya](#): > > Back to my question: How do they know they are not stunted H sapiens mutants? I’m open to the idea that they are a new little species, but why must they be? What is it about these bones, apart from being small, that makes them clearly NOT smal pygmies? We could never get away with calling pygmies non-human.(I’ve always wanted a little brother!) [the skull is wide like H. erectus. But the sides are rounder and the crown traces an arc from ear to ear. The skull of H. erectus has steeper sides and a pointed crown, they said. The lower jaw contains large, blunt teeth and roots like Australopithecus, a prehuman ancestor in Africa more than 3 million years ago. The front teeth are smaller than modern human teeth. The eye sockets are big and round, but they don’t carry a prominent browline. The shinbone in the leg shares similarities with apes]([http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=624&ncid=624&e=3&u=/ap/20041027/ap\_on\_sc/dwarf\_cavewoman](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=624&ncid=624&e=3&u=/ap/20041027/ap_on_sc/dwarf_cavewoman)). Presumably a lot of people more familiar than I with the skull of H. erectus and the shinbone of an ape are nodding sagely and going, “Ah.” I think they were house elves. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-hobbits-or-a-new-homo-in-indonesia/271451/16 "2004-10-27T20:20:25Z")
> [@Inigo Montoya](#): > > eloi? or…moorlocks? > > Back to my question: How do they know they are not stunted H sapiens mutants? I’m open to the idea that they are a new little species, but why must they be? What is it about these bones, apart from being small, that makes them clearly NOT smal pygmies? We could never get away with calling pygmies non-human.(I’ve always wanted a little brother!) I’m listening to an NPR story on this now. They suspect it was a branch off of homo-erectus that varied into dwarfism. Here’s a [link to their story](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4127713). Maybe this is where stories about leprechauns or faeries come from. ---
**Author:** ![sugaree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@sugaree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugaree)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-hobbits-or-a-new-homo-in-indonesia/271451/17 "2004-10-27T20:27:12Z")
[National Geographic weighs in.](http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/10/1027_041027_homo_floresiensis.html) Anyone else notice that they have found the remains of seven individuals? Seven. Dwarves. :dubious: I was thinking about that, **ShibbOleth**. And isn’t it just perfect that they lived with dragons? Komodo dragons. ---
**Author:** ![Podkayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Podkayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Podkayne)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-hobbits-or-a-new-homo-in-indonesia/271451/18 "2004-10-27T20:36:43Z")
> [@sugaree](#): > > They are not homo sapiens, **Inigo**. This is a totally new little species. Ah, but then we couldn’t make Frodo/Sam jokes, eh? Wink wink, nudge nudge! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-hobbits-or-a-new-homo-in-indonesia/271451/19 "2004-10-27T20:39:10Z")
[Special page](http://www.nature.com/news/specials/flores/index.html) on Nature, where the original report has been published. The new species has been dubbed _Homo floresiensis_. ---
**Author:** ![bughunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/aeb1de/32.png) [@bughunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bughunter)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-hobbits-or-a-new-homo-in-indonesia/271451/20 "2004-10-27T20:49:16Z")
From the _Herald Sun_ article: > [@](#): > > Professor Roberts said it was almost certain that humans would have run into their hobbit cousins on the island. "These people were during our time. We would have bumped into these people looking completely different and thought ‘What are they?’ " And then the humans would have promptly murdered them all. Things really haven’t changed much in 12,000 years. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-hobbits-or-a-new-homo-in-indonesia/271451.md?page=2)