# Real Motivation For Japanese Whaling? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 1, 2011, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-motivation-for-japanese-whaling/566078 "2011-01-01T21:18:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2011, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-motivation-for-japanese-whaling/566078/21 "2011-01-02T07:13:08Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > Political commentary? That they are little and that they brought us Pearl Harbor are lead pipe cinches factually. To me they sound like borderline racial jabs at the Japanese. Stop making them. They’re not relevant to the subject. In fact they make it less likely you’ll get a real discussion because people will spend more energy explaining what makes them uncomfortable about the tone of your remarks. Let’s call the whole thing off. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2011, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-motivation-for-japanese-whaling/566078/22 "2011-01-02T07:47:43Z")
The pressing issue is that t[he Japanese are strongly aligned with the forces of _Squirrel_](http://www.japanprobe.com/2009/05/31/squirrel-collects-tissues-in-japan/) anyways. Smaller than Moose and much easier to house. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2011, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-motivation-for-japanese-whaling/566078/23 "2011-01-02T08:32:45Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > The pressing issue is that t[he Japanese are strongly aligned with the forces of _Squirrel_](http://www.japanprobe.com/2009/05/31/squirrel-collects-tissues-in-japan/) anyways. Smaller than Moose and much easier to house. And Squirrels don’t rip your arms off when they lose. ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2011, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-motivation-for-japanese-whaling/566078/24 "2011-01-02T10:10:51Z")
There were a number of threads covering this when the whole Sea Shepherd thing happened. To be brief: 1. the restrictions on whaling are questionable in the first place 2. no country likes to lose face by being told what to do by other countries 3. most Japanese don’t know much about the issue so assume Japan is in the right 4. support for continued whaling is widespread And the Japanese eat whale meat, not whale blubber. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2011, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-motivation-for-japanese-whaling/566078/25 "2011-01-02T12:40:45Z")
If you’re going to complain about _whaling_, be complete: the US, Canada, and Norway, among others, are all involved in whaling. Norway, for example, has killed far more whales than Japan. But based on the OP’s original comments -my guess is the OP just wants to complain about the ‘wacky little Japanese’. But anyway - Japan eats animals (in rather small quantities, it should be noted) that most Americans don’t. Get over it. In the US, we kill _each day_ over 90,000 cows, over 300,000 pigs, and _25 million_ chickens. Why the fuss about barely a thousand or so whales in an entire year, for species of whales that are in zero danger of endangerment? ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2011, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-motivation-for-japanese-whaling/566078/26 "2011-01-02T13:36:47Z")
> [@cckerberos](#): > > 1. the restrictions on whaling are questionable in the first place > 2. no country likes to lose face by being told what to do by other countries > 3. most Japanese don’t know much about the issue so assume Japan is in the right > 4. support for continued whaling is widespread This, and add the perception that Japan is to being unfairly singled out for their whaling practices. The Japanese may be ambivalent about most aspects of politics or social justice, but one thing that really gets them hot is inequal treatment (as they perceive it). To speculate further, the illusion of scarcity makes some regard whale meat as being more desirable than they would otherwise (I have eaten it myself, and it tastes really like nothing more than a greasy cut of tuna). To speculate a bit more, many Japanese survivors with living memory of wartime would find it unwise to mothball production capacity of what was once a critical emergency protein source. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2011, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-motivation-for-japanese-whaling/566078/27 "2011-01-02T14:03:18Z")
Endangered species comprise less than 10 % of the Japanese catch. We are not running out of Minke whale anytime soon, it is classified as a species of least concern. If there is a market for a product, someone will fill it. Other countries whale as well. Having had whale several times in Iceland, I would eat it semi-regularly if it were available. **Cosmic Relief** , “greasy tuna”? really? My cuts were a deep red meat that reminded me of lean beef with a fishy aftertaste. ---
**Author:** ![Norse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a9adbd/32.png) [@Norse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Norse)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2011, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-motivation-for-japanese-whaling/566078/28 "2011-01-02T16:34:27Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > My cuts were a deep red meat that reminded me of lean beef with a fishy aftertaste. Mine as well. We used to have whale meat as an everyday dish once in a while when I was a boy. Never liked it much and can’t understand why some people get all fussy about how special it is. I can mimic that taste using a cheap cut of beef and frying it in ordinary cooking oil with a dash of cod liver oil. And [seal](http://www.heritage.nf.ca/society/images/seal_pup_550.jpg) is not very far removed from that taste either. OK in a casserole, but I wouldn’t go out of my way to get it. Unless I was shooting the seal myself, then I’d of course eat the meat. ETA: There is, however, a reason for whaling. The alternative would be to give in to Greenpeace, PETA _et al_, stop killing non-endangered species just because they’re cute and eat only farmed cattle and chickens instead. Personally, I prefer eating wild animals, since modern industrial livestock farming is rather abominable ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2011, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-motivation-for-japanese-whaling/566078/29 "2011-01-02T16:39:21Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > Endangered species comprise less than 10 % of the Japanese catch. Yea, I have some sympathy with the Japanese position, the prohibition against whaling was supposed to be a measure to restore whale stocks so that managed hunting could be reinstitueted in a sustainable way. But the IWC continues to ban whaling in general, even on those species, like the Minke, that have had their populations rebound. Its pretty obviously been captured by countries that simply want a blanket ban on whaling regardless of sustainability. As a result, those countries like Japan that want to keep whaling don’t really have any motivation to obey the IWC, will presumably be reluctant to sign onto any future organizations to regulate fishing of other endangered sealife, and continue to hunt in an unregulated way. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2011, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-motivation-for-japanese-whaling/566078/30 "2011-01-02T17:05:27Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > Your reflexive reaction to my joking characterization of the Yellow Peril (another joke?) was unhelpful to the discussion. [Moderator Note] As I said, your OP was not appropriate for GQ. Just be on notice that the next time you do something like that you’ll receive an official warning rather than just a note. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Laudenum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7993a0/32.png) [@Laudenum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laudenum)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2011, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-motivation-for-japanese-whaling/566078/31 "2011-01-02T17:34:23Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > If you’re going to complain about _whaling_, be complete: **the US, Canada, and Norway** , among others, are all involved in whaling. Norway, for example, has killed far more whales than Japan. But based on the OP’s original comments -my guess is the OP just wants to complain about the ‘wacky little Japanese’. > > But anyway - Japan eats animals (in rather small quantities, it should be noted) that most Americans don’t. Get over it. In the US, we kill _each day_ over 90,000 cows, over 300,000 pigs, and _25 million_ chickens. Why the fuss about barely a thousand or so whales in an entire year, for species of whales that are in zero danger of endangerment? I thought it was only Native People’s who were allowed to hunt whale in those countries? ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2011, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-motivation-for-japanese-whaling/566078/32 "2011-01-02T17:44:03Z")
Most Norwegians are indigenous…I mean I guess maybe you’re talking about the Sami people who are indigenous to the arctic regions of Scandinavia and are a different ethnic group unto themselves, but the Norwegians living in Oslo, Bergen and etc are about as indigenous as it gets to their area. ---
**Author:** ![Laudenum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7993a0/32.png) [@Laudenum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laudenum)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2011, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-motivation-for-japanese-whaling/566078/33 "2011-01-02T17:54:02Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Most Norwegians are indigenous…I mean I guess maybe you’re talking about the Sami people who are indigenous to the arctic regions of Scandinavia and are a different ethnic group unto themselves, but the Norwegians living in Oslo, Bergen and etc are about as indigenous as it gets to their area. Sorry, I only meant to highlight America and Canada. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2011, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-motivation-for-japanese-whaling/566078/34 "2011-01-02T18:00:50Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > That’s not “finding a way to make money”. It’s being handed money to sustain a failing industry. One which kills endangered animals for meat that no one actually wants, apparently. Destructive futility. Correct. I never questioned the **whalers’** motives, that’s capitalism and custom. If my OP wasn’t clear, I questioned the motive of the government, which makes possible a scale of whale hunt that the market would not otherwise sustain, through subsidies and, not incidentally, substantial investment in Coast Guard protection of the whaling fleet from protestors. [http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-1608344.html](http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-1608344.html) ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2011, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-motivation-for-japanese-whaling/566078/35 "2011-01-02T18:06:30Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > If you’re going to complain about _whaling_, be complete: the US, Canada, and Norway, among others, are all involved in whaling. Norway, for example, has killed far more whales than Japan. But based on the OP’s original comments -my guess is the OP just wants to complain about the ‘wacky little Japanese’. > > But anyway - Japan eats animals (in rather small quantities, it should be noted) that most Americans don’t. Get over it. In the US, we kill _each day_ over 90,000 cows, over 300,000 pigs, and _25 million_ chickens. Why the fuss about barely a thousand or so whales in an entire year, for species of whales that are in zero danger of endangerment? Read carefully – my OP was neutral on whether whaling was “good” or “bad,” and certainly did not “complain” about anything (except perhaps the Japanese hypocrisy in characterizing the whaling as “scientific research,” which few will cavil with). I know other countries whale, but I have never heard widespread stories that the Norwegians, Aleuts, Inuit, Canadian natives, whoever, were killing whales that lots and lots of people didn’t particularly want to eat (remember, my very first original (but mistaken) premise was that the Japanese loooveeed whale meat, in which case I’d class their conduct with their approach to tuna; possibly irresponsible use of resources, but I get why they’re doing it – they’re hungry for whale!). No, instead I was confronting the published and anecdotal reports that there was a motive quite apart from consumption for the Japanese whaling initiative, and asking whether it was vote-getting, nationalism, or whatever. If someone tells me that the Norwegian whale hunt is driven by anything other than Norwegian love of eating whale meat – I’ll take that on too. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2011, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-motivation-for-japanese-whaling/566078/36 "2011-01-02T18:26:31Z")
> [@cckerberos](#): > > There were a number of threads covering this when the whole Sea Shepherd thing happened. > > To be brief: > > 1. the restrictions on whaling are questionable in the first place > 2. no country likes to lose face by being told what to do by other countries > 3. most Japanese don’t know much about the issue so assume Japan is in the right > 4. support for continued whaling is widespread > > And the Japanese eat whale meat, not whale blubber. 1. Agreed 2. Agreed, and to a greater degree than I realized for the Japanese till recently. 3. Mostly agreed, though most of the under-40 people I talk to speak of whaling the way an urban American would speak of hunting, as a somewhat barbarous throwback that is at best tolerated. 4. I’d go with “ignored,” per **Sage Rat** ’s take on it. With few people really wanting to eat it, it’s hard for anyone to be affirmatively a big booster. Unless the world’s cruelest prank was played on me, the Japanese do indeed eat blubber – I was served both shibou (blubber) soup and kawa kujira (whale skin I think?) at a very upscale restaurant in Chiyoda-ku. Both were less fun to eat (texture, mostly) than the regular steak, which wasn’t bad or good. ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2011, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-motivation-for-japanese-whaling/566078/37 "2011-01-02T20:50:58Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > 1. Mostly agreed, though most of the under-40 people I talk to speak of whaling the way an urban American would speak of hunting, as a somewhat barbarous throwback that is at best tolerated. > 2. I’d go with “ignored,” per **Sage Rat** ’s take on it. With few people really wanting to eat it, it’s hard for anyone to be affirmatively a big booster. 1. What I meant here is that I don’t think your average Japanese understands the objections most of the West have towards whaling. When the issue was in the news during the whole Sea Shepherd crash thing, I had a number of classmates ask me about it. And these are grad students in international studies who were presumably more knowledgeable about such things. I would agree that your average young Japanese views whaling as old fashioned, but I don’t think most have any other real objections to it. 2. I think if you took a national survey of Japanese, a majority would support Japan continuing whaling. Or put another way, a majority would reject Japan being told to stop whaling. > [@](#): > > Unless the world’s cruelest prank was played on me, the Japanese do indeed eat blubber – I was served both shibou (blubber) soup and kawa kujira (whale skin I think?) at a very upscale restaurant in Chiyoda-ku. Both were less fun to eat (texture, mostly) than the regular steak, which wasn’t bad or good. I’ll take your word that it exists as a delicacy, but it’s not the typical way it’s eaten. It’s usually either eaten as sashimi or canned with soy sauce (the latter is what most elder Japanese were forced to eat as school after the war). ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2011, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-motivation-for-japanese-whaling/566078/38 "2011-01-02T20:54:36Z")
> [@cckerberos](#): > > Or put another way, a majority would reject Japan being told to stop whaling. Put that way, rings very true. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2011, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-motivation-for-japanese-whaling/566078/39 "2011-01-02T22:56:39Z")
Personally, the only reason that I see to complain about Japan’s whaling industry is that _they_ agreed to stop doing it. If they came out and said, “We’re aware that some animals are endangered. We don’t want to nor intend to drive any animal extinct. But, for ones that aren’t we see no reason to stop hunting.” No one would have any cause to complain about them. It’s because they say that they aren’t hunting the animals, they’re just “studying” them, that there’s an issue. ---
**Author:** ![godix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/278dde/32.png) [@godix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/godix)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2011, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-motivation-for-japanese-whaling/566078/40 "2011-01-02T23:38:38Z")
Just for the record, the ‘research’ excuse the japanese use isn’t entirely wrong. The ICW has been in the position before where they had to rely on Japan’s facts to determine an issue because some things just can’t be learned by tagging a whale or observing it. The whole research line is pretty obviously just an excuse, but it does produce some scientific information. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-motivation-for-japanese-whaling/566078.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-motivation-for-japanese-whaling/566078.md?page=3)