# Real music died in the 1970s **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** music\ **Created:** [June 13, 2021, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199 "2021-06-13T23:41:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2021, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/203 "2021-06-18T16:10:44Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > Maybe, but that would probably have more to do with changing musical tastes than any measure of her talent. Enrico Caruso and Nellie Melba were huge, massively popular musicians in their day; how many people listen to them anymore? That could be. Having said that, my theory was based on the fact that her music isn’t terribly _interesting_. People still listen to Led Zeppelin, who were exceptional musicians, and Beastie Boys, who were, well, good at what they did. Both were _interesting_. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2021, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/204 "2021-06-18T16:11:52Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Aah, [rockism](https://web.archive.org/web/20151105070445/http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/31/arts/music/the-rap-against-rockism.html), my old nemesis - I did not miss you I had never heard that word before, but that essay you linked is spot-on - that attitude bugs the hell out of me, too. Thanks for expanding my vocabulary. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2021, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/205 "2021-06-18T16:21:40Z")
No doubt, White made that band as the lead; Bailey was a good complement ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2021, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/206 "2021-06-18T18:08:00Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > > [@scabpicker](#): > > > > Today, you don’t really need to be a mechanical virtuoso on an instrument to be a musician. > > Did you ever? The Beatles (just as an example) weren’t instrumental virtuosos, unless you’re using the word “virtuoso” very loosely. And @RickJay Heheh, ok, I phrased that badly. Instead: Today, you don’t need to be (or even hire) a virtuoso musician to have virtuoso parts in your music. ---
**Author:** ![Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/face_intentionally_left_blank/32/288_2.png) [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Face_Intentionally_Left_Blank)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2021, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/207 "2021-06-18T18:19:31Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > OutKast is ten times better than the Allman Brothers. No real disagreement in this thread. Interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2021, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/208 "2021-06-18T18:42:35Z")
The old geezerdom is strong in this thread. There are tons of great musicians today. Derek Trucks is a contemporary guitar player regularly on all-time-greatest lists. Just because you don’t know them doesn’t mean they don’t exist. It’s not like power chords ever required much skill. Johnny Ramone claimed to never practice because he wanted to sound raw. To everybody claiming that music sucks today, how are you right while every previous generation who made similar complaints is wrong? > [@asahi](#): > > Actually, I kinda did like Kriss Kross back in the early 1990s (rip Chris Kelly), but I was referring to Christopher Cross, the Texan soft rock, pop singer between 1979 and 1983. Yeah. He occasionally goes by Chris Cross. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2021, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/209 "2021-06-18T18:44:46Z")
It is apocryphal but I like the story where John Lennon was asked if Ringo was the best drummer in the world and Lennon answered that Ringo wasn’t even the best drummer in the Beatles. 😆 ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2021, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/210 "2021-06-18T18:51:59Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > To everybody claiming that music sucks today, how are you right while every previous generation who made similar complaints is wrong? Because science: > **[Science Proves: Pop Music Has Actually Gotten Worse](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/science-proves-pop-music-has-actually-gotten-worse-8173368/)** > > Science confirms what you've always suspected: music these days is worse than it used to be Also: > **[Every song you love was written by the same two guys](https://nypost.com/2015/10/04/your-favorite-song-on-the-radio-was-probably-written-by-these-two/)** > > Strummer Camp Songwriting today is not the romantic notion of one kid with a guitar. As John Seabrook writes in his new book “The Song Machine,” it’s an impersonal, assembly-line-driven process tha… This one says one guy: > **[One Man Has Written Virtually Every Major Pop Song Of The Last 20 Years. And...](https://www.celebritynetworth.com/articles/entertainment-articles/max-martin-powerful-person-music-business-people-never-even-head-name/)** > > Pop quiz: Who has been the most influential and powerful person in pop music over the last 20 years? Britney Spears? Madonna? Michael Jackson? Beyonce? Simon Cowell? Sure, these people have all been extraordinarily successful, but what if we told you... ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2021, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/211 "2021-06-18T19:00:57Z")
Ok, but I hate the songs those guys write, and I don’t listen to those songs. I still listen to a ton of new music. The OP didn’t limit it to pop music, why should anyone else? Plus, music isn’t science or the Olympics. It’s not something that you can successfully measure and judge whether it’s “better” because it’s more complex or faster. Such analysis of art is a fundamentally broken way of judging it. ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2021, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/212 "2021-06-18T19:09:38Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Show me a couple of guitarists this good these days: Enjoy [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/EdX2GccRe18/maxresdefault.jpg "Rodrigo y Gabriela - Mettavolution Medley - Lumbini Sessions") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdX2GccRe18) ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2021, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/213 "2021-06-18T19:13:15Z")
I hope everyone saying “But this science thing says…” is agreeing that music in the 1970s is worse than music from 1955. 'Cause that’s what the science charts say if you’re reading it as an indictment of modern tunes. If you’re not listening to Bill Haynes sing “The Ballad of Davey Crocket” and Pat Boone’s “Ain’t That a Shame”, can you REALLY claim to be interested in GOOD music? Science says no. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2021, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/214 "2021-06-18T19:23:13Z")
So, music is becoming simpler, [lyrics are becoming simpler](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7806124/), musicians on pop charts rarely write their own music anymore (see below), and [songs are getting shorter](https://www.prsformusic.com/m-magazine/features/song-length-the-spotify-effect/). But nothing to see here right? > **[Hardly Anyone on the Pop Charts Writes Their Own Music (Alone) Anymore](https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/hardly-anyone-in-the-pop-charts-writes-their-own-music-alone-anymore-815333/)** > > The solo singer-songwriter pop hit has nearly disappeared in the past decade. At least one rising star is seeking to reverse that trend ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2021, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/215 "2021-06-18T19:25:08Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > So, music is becoming simpler, [lyrics are becoming simpler](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7806124/), musicians on pop charts rarely write their own music anymore (see below), and [songs are getting shorter](https://www.prsformusic.com/m-magazine/features/song-length-the-spotify-effect/). What does any of that have to do with whether music is good? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2021, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/216 "2021-06-18T19:29:14Z")
I submit it hinders variety and creativity. With autotune and only a handful of people writing songs and the songs getting shorter there is less creative room. Now “good” music is more what the record labels want and who they decide to promote. I think that is bad for music. Much better to have 1000 kids across the US starting bands in their parents’ garage and dreaming new stuff up. Even if most of it sucks that churn benefits music overall than having BMG Suit #2 cast a pop star for looks who will have the music handed to them and their voice autotuned to hell and back because they can’t actually sing well. They are cast for their looks. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2021, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/217 "2021-06-18T19:33:24Z")
We can’t all match the heady days of lyrically complex and lengthy songs like the Beatles, “She Loves You” “Everything is by these two guys!” is only true if you restrict yourself to a very limited subset of “everything”. I don’t listen to any of the artists cited in those articles. I’m familiar with them and recognize them as popular but I don’t listen to Katy Perry so I don’t give a shit who’s writing her lyrics. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Much better to have 1000 kids across the US starting bands in their parents’ garage and dreaming new stuff up. This is literally the scene today with Youtube, Band Camp and other musical outlets besides Top 40 radio. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2021, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/218 "2021-06-18T19:36:17Z")
I don’t believe that the quality of a piece of music (or any art) can be reduced to single number, therefore it can’t reasonably be sorted from better to worst. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2021, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/219 "2021-06-18T19:42:42Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > We can’t all match the heady days of lyrically complex and lengthy songs like the Beatles, “She Loves You” I am not saying all songs must be long and complex to be good. Far from it. I am saying taking them off the table is bad for music overall. I want the whole smorgasbord and not just a handful of choices someone else picked for me. Who would dare to make In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida today and expect it to be played on the radio and become popular? Music is worse today because it has been diminished from what was once possible. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2021, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/220 "2021-06-18T19:46:50Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Who would dare to make In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida today and expect it to be played on the radio and become popular? And I thought that the punks did away with those extravaganzas in 1977… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2021, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/221 "2021-06-18T19:47:09Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I want the whole smorgasbord and not just a handful of choices someone else picked for me. Pop music (inc rock & roll) has always been like this when filtered through the radio or major labels. If you want the whole spread, you need to actually visit the whole spread, not just the dessert table. Anyone getting offended that the same guy wrote songs for Beiber, Swift and Perry isn’t visiting the whole spread. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2021, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/222 "2021-06-18T19:49:49Z")
Frank Sinatra never wrote any of his music, neither did Aretha Franklin. Nobody has simpler, shorter music than The Ramones. Are any of those bad music? Taylor Swift writes most of her music; does that make her good? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199.md?page=12)