# Real music died in the 1970s **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** music\ **Created:** [June 13, 2021, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199 "2021-06-13T23:41:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2021, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/223 "2021-06-18T19:50:07Z")
I think back in the day radio was better. You had actual DJs in a booth reaching for albums and spinning discs that they chose on their own. Good DJs would find those B-side goodies and deep cuts for us to be exposed to more music. Now it is all a programmed playlist chosen by some corporate type. Some stations barely have a 30 song rotation it seems. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2021, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/224 "2021-06-18T19:50:54Z")
From an earlier post a few back: > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I am not saying all songs must be long and complex to be good. Far from it. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2021, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/225 "2021-06-18T19:51:09Z")
Sure is. That’s why I don’t listen to radio. Today’s kids don’t listen to radio. The only people listening to radio are commuters who haven’t discovered streaming and people working in offices. This is a better argument for “Today’s radio sucks” than “Today’s music sucks”. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2021, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/226 "2021-06-18T19:51:33Z")
So you agree that length and complexity has little if anything to do with good music? ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2021, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/227 "2021-06-18T19:52:05Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > Frank Sinatra never wrote any of his music, neither did Aretha Franklin. I support your point, but actually Aretha Franklin is not a good example. She wrote many songs of her own, including gems like “Dr Feelgood”, “Think” and “Call Me” (of course she also was a great interpreter of songs written by others). Elvis would be a better example. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2021, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/228 "2021-06-18T19:57:34Z")
I knew I should have said “almost never”. Thanks for the correction. And of course we should mention that The Monkees were a popular band during this time of musical apex. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2021, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/229 "2021-06-18T20:09:35Z")
I think people here are missing the forest for the trees. Finding exceptions means nothing. Short songs can be great. Simple songs can be great. People singing other people’s songs can be great. The issue is the trends. When Elvis was singing music others wrote there were loads of bands making their own stuff who were also popular at the same time. Now, per the Rolling Stone article, almost no one on the charts is writing their own music. Are there people on YouTube writing their own music? Sure. Do they often get on the charts? No. In the 70s you had a broad spectrum of all sorts of music of varying types and length and complexity and vibe. That spectrum is much more narrow these days and that is not a good thing in my view. That does not mean what music there is is necessarily bad. It just means you have less variety to choose from. That is why 70s music was better (perhaps better to say the 70s music scene was better). ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2021, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/230 "2021-06-18T20:12:47Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Are there people on YouTube writing their own music? Sure. Do they often get on the charts? No. In the past, the only way to be heard was via radio and you weren’t getting played unless you were making the charts. Today, “making the charts” is certainly nice for musicians but is far from the only path being heard. It’s not the only path to being successful enough to make music a career either. Maybe not a private island level career but you can pay the bills and live a life off it. You’re acting as though not being on the charts is a barrier to being heard. If the listener isn’t putting any effort into it or is ignorant of their options, that’s true. But it’s not the way a ton of music is heard and appreciated these days. It’s a boomer argument to support a boomer point. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2021, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/231 "2021-06-18T20:16:12Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I submit it hinders variety and creativity. With autotune and only a handful of people writing songs and the songs getting shorter there is less creative room. Now “good” music is more what the record labels want and who they decide to promote. I think you have no idea how youth consume music nowadays. “Record labels”? Maybe for K-Pop, Grandad. But labels don’t _run_ Bandcamp or TikTok or even YouTube. And what the hell does _length_ have to do with anything? It takes _more_ creativity to make a good short song than some half-hour prog hot mess, IMO. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I think back in the day radio was better. Radio is dead. Kids listen to internet music. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2021, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/232 "2021-06-18T20:19:14Z")
Billboard is a metric we can use. What else would you suggest? And Billboard tracks the most listened to songs. That’s it. So it is telling us what kids are listening to on Spotify. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2021, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/233 "2021-06-18T20:20:54Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > almost no one on the charts is writing their own music What does the _charts_ have to do with anything? They’re irrelevant to modern music consumption. The kind of music my kids listen to, charts don’t even exist for. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2021, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/234 "2021-06-18T20:22:36Z")
Is it telling us what kids are listening to on TikTok? Or in non-music-video Youtube? Or on video game soundtracks? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2021, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/235 "2021-06-18T20:24:59Z")
From their website: > While many Billboard charts are either purely streaming-, radio- or sales-based, we mingle that data on a selection of charts: The Billboard Hot 100, Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Songs, Hot R&B Songs, Hot Rap Songs, Hot Country Songs, Hot Rock & Alternative Songs, Hot Alternative Songs, Hot Hard Rock Songs, Hot Latin Songs, Hot Dance/Electronic Songs, Hot Christian Songs and Hot Gospel Songs (as well as the Hot 100’s Bubbling Under chart, which ranks the top 25 titles that have not yet reached the Hot 100). > > We use these three pools of data because while the consumer’s decision to purchase or stream is a significant vote of popularity, singles have a job that extends beyond being a sales vehicle: to capture radio play and streams and, hopefully, stimulate album sales. [SOURCE](https://www.billboard.com/p/billboard-charts-legend) I do not see where they say exactly what they track but since they are in the business of collecting data I would be shocked if they missed any relevant sources for the data they want to track. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2021, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/236 "2021-06-18T20:26:56Z")
So “no”, then. No mention there of any of the sources I mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2021, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/237 "2021-06-18T20:29:11Z")
So, “you have no idea” then. They are still a relevant metric unless you can prove that so much music is consumed elsewhere that Billboard totally ignores for some unknown reason that Billboard’s numbers are meaningless, their data useless and they really should go out of business for being terrible at the business they are in. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2021, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/238 "2021-06-18T20:42:36Z")
No, I have a very good idea, since they mention a bunch of sources, and the stuff my kid listens to is not on there. From their site: > the week’s top streamed radio songs and on-demand songs and videos on leading online music services. > This only covers official releases, but that’s not all that people listen to on online platforms. They love mashups, unofficial video remakes, etc. And TikTok is not one of the services they survey. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > They are still a relevant metric unless you can prove that so much music is consumed elsewhere that Billboard totally ignores for some unknown reason that Billboard’s numbers are meaningless, their data useless and they really should go out of business for being terrible at the business they are in. Do you have any idea how big TikTok is and how important it is to the current state of pop music? Because Billboard doesn’t. It only has secondhand sight of the platform via things that make it from there to Spotify. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2021, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/239 "2021-06-18T20:44:30Z")
Seems like they are paying attention to Tik Tok: > **[Viral TikTok Songs on the Billboard Charts](https://www.billboard.com/photos/songs-tiktok-viral-chart/)** > > A rundown of TikTok viral hits on the Billboard charts. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2021, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/240 "2021-06-18T20:44:40Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Now, per the Rolling Stone article, almost no one on the charts is writing their own music. You’re insisting that whether music is self written or not is a way to judge the quality of music as a broad metric. It is not evident to me that that is anything other than a personal preference. Consider this hypothesis: “music written by professional song-writers instead of professional performers is an indication of higher overall quality of current popular music.” Makes sense, right? Have dedicated pros do each aspect of a production. But that’s just as much nonsense as you claiming the opposite. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2021, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/241 "2021-06-18T20:45:11Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > You’re insisting that whether music is self written or not is a way to judge the quality of music as a broad metric. No. Go back and read what I wrote. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2021, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/242 "2021-06-18T20:48:20Z")
The streaming chart’s not surveyed directly from TikTok views . That page is just Billboard patting itself on the back for agreeing with what TikTok was already saying. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199.md?page=13)