# Real music died in the 1970s **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** music\ **Created:** [June 13, 2021, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199 "2021-06-13T23:41:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2021, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/323 "2021-06-19T16:46:01Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Christopher Cross Oh. Will now read thread - just wanted to initially jot that one off. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2021, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/324 "2021-06-19T16:47:18Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Pearl Jam Oh-oh. Now I’ve read post #4. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2021, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/325 "2021-06-19T16:51:53Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I just offer it as an example of how we can see behind the curtain to what these musicians were doing: There are great drummers today. [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/OgKXlEsYoXE/hqdefault.jpg "Taylor Hawkins Drum Solo Hyde Park Foo Fighters") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgKXlEsYoXE) ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2021, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/326 "2021-06-19T17:01:01Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > There are great drummers today. And like Ringo, Hawkins even isn’t the best drummer in the band. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2021, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/327 "2021-06-19T17:16:56Z")
Hehehe, I know a guy who _hates_ Dave Grohl because younger drummers try to emulate him. He complains that they have no subtlety, just pounding away. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2021, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/328 "2021-06-19T18:02:33Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Creed Isn’t this the band with the Pearl Jam sock vocalist? Oh alright alright - no more nitpick posts on individual bands, then. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2021, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/329 "2021-06-19T18:26:57Z")
nevermind ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2021, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/330 "2021-06-19T21:15:19Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I think that is bad for music. Much better to have 1000 kids across the US starting bands in their parents’ garage and dreaming new stuff up. Even if most of it sucks that churn benefits music overall than having BMG Suit #2 cast a pop star for looks who will have the music handed to them and their voice autotuned to hell and back because they can’t actually sing well. They are cast for their looks. Read post #105. @RickJay pointed out that Billie Eilish, one of the biggest, most successful stars in music today got her start when she and her brother Finneas uploaded a song he’d written and she sang to Soundcloud, so that her dance teacher could access it to create a choreography. Six years on, she’s only the second artist, and the youngest ever, to win Best New Artist, Song of the Year, Record of the Year, and Album of the Year Grammys in the same year. As to being cast for her looks, it’s true that she’s an attractive young woman. But it’s also true that she deliberately wears loose-fitting, bulky clothing to avoid sexualizing herself. She’s also been upfront about her Tourette’s syndrome and depression, and doesn’t hide the fact that she frequently burps and farts. Hardly someone who’s trying to capitalize on her sexuality rather than her music. Point being, as has been said several times in this thread, there are now more ways to share your music than ever in history; the record companies are still important, but no longer essential. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2021, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/331 "2021-06-20T13:35:28Z")
It’s telling that the paradigm for “good for music” championed there is “start a band in the garage”. When it’s Garageband (free on the iPad or iPhone) in the bedroom that has exploded the boundaries of creativity - and not a thousand kids, a hundred thousand. ---
**Author:** ![BeeGee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5a626/32.png) [@BeeGee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeeGee)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2021, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/332 "2021-06-21T02:19:16Z")
I was there. Or here (Austin) as the case may be. He was the Rupert Holmes of Austin music. Ranks up there with missing Tiffany. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2021, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/333 "2021-06-21T07:08:09Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > Hehehe, I know a guy who _hates_ Dave Grohl This is a toxic relationship. That guy must be a true Asshole. Move on for the betterment of yourself. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2021, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/334 "2021-06-21T13:10:43Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > Music theory attempts to teach things like how to tune an instrument, how to compose counterpoint, how to improvise Carnatic music, the function of chords in jazz reharmonization, etc. Sure. It’s great if you work with functional harmony based on Western music traditions. If one were to come up with a music theory NOW, based on the types of music we listen to, we’d have a reasonably different arrangement of ideas. Many would stay the same, since our pop music is still influenced very much by Western values, but a lot has changed with world music influences. Theory really just attempts to codify “rules” of the music that preceded it within a particular culture. It’s a bit like coming up with a consistent, written-down “grammar” and “spelling” after observing how people have spoken for centuries. But then take your English rules and try to apply it to another language. These theories don’t work neatly when you venture outside the traditions that formed them. I mean, you can fit them into Western music theory, but it’s a bit of putting a square peg in a round hole some of the time. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2021, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/335 "2021-06-21T15:18:14Z")
Music declined rapidly in the late 90’s after Pro Tools took over. Everything is computerized and fake. You want horns on your song? They come out of a box. It’s called sampling. Record companies don’t want the expense of paying musicians to play strings and horns in a recording session. Rhythm is normalized to a click. Rick Beato has demonstrated it in videos. Pro Tools totally removes any human element from drummers. The groove and feel that great drummers have gets adjusted to the click. Vocals? There’s no need to sing on pitch. Auto tune is your friend. The sad thing is there’s a entire generation that’s grown up on computerized, sanitized digital music. That’s their expectation of music. Music performed by real people and not digitally manipulated sounds off to their ears. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2021, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/336 "2021-06-21T15:23:17Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Music declined rapidly in the late 90’s after Pro Tools took over. Everything is computerized and fake. You want horns on your song? They come out of a box. It’s called sampling. Record companies don’t want the expense of paying musicians to play strings and horns in a recording session. > > Rhythm is normalized to a click. Rick Beato has demonstrated it in videos. Pro Tools totally removes any human element from drummers. The groove and feel that great drummers have gets adjusted to the click. > > Vocals? There’s no need to sing on pitch. Auto tune is your friend. > > The sad thing is there’s a entire generation that’s grown up on computerized, sanitized digital music. That’s their expectation of music. Music performed by real people and not digitally manipulated sounds off to their ears. I’m not sure if you’re serious or if this is sarcasm. It sounds like you’re sad that people expect better music these days. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2021, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/337 "2021-06-21T15:25:43Z")
I’m being sarcastic but also a bit sad that perfection is the goal in today’s music. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2021, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/338 "2021-06-21T15:28:01Z")
Well, quantizing the shit out of everything and throwing everything on a grid does remove a lot of the feel of a song, IMHO. I think some of the objections are exaggerated – you don’t have to play to a click (and there’s nothing new with playing to a click, but the precision offered in editing these days is much finer) and you don’t have to auto-tune everything aggressively. There’s plenty of music out there that does leave a bit of “dirt” in it. And, I do agree, aesthetically, I prefer a little bit of that type of humanity in the music. Imagine the Rolling Stones’ “Gimme Shelter” with Merry Clayton’s cracking voice edited to a “clean” take. That would take all the soul out of that great vocal part. Of course, a producer doesn’t have to do that. They have more options these days, so these tools are not in and of themselves “bad” at all. It’s another set of colors in the musical palette. But, damn if I don’t agree that I wish there was less homogenization of the sound and “perfect” production in music these days. It does feel a little less soulful to me. But that is a subjective observation. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2021, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/339 "2021-06-21T15:33:24Z")
It’s true that sometimes artists get to use more live musicians. Gwen Stefani had a full string section for her last Christmas album. She was pretty excited there was money for it. ---
**Author:** ![swampspruce](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/swampspruce/32/261_2.png) [@swampspruce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swampspruce)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2021, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/340 "2021-06-21T22:46:27Z")
Pro Tools is just that, a tool. Same with Ableton or Presonus Sphere. For a lot of Pop or Dance it’s become the default to some extent but if you think there’s no dirt or soul in music you need to give Alabama Shakes, Black Keys and maybe a side of Joss Stone or Nathaniel Rateliff a listen. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2021, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/341 "2021-06-21T22:51:04Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Rhythm is normalized to a click. Rick Beato has demonstrated it in videos. Pro Tools totally removes any human element from drummers. The groove and feel that great drummers have gets adjusted to the click. I’m not enamored of a bunch of modern production techniques. However, if Beato “demonstrated” this in a video, he’s misinforming you. I’ve got a really basic drum machine in front of me, and you can set its “swing” and variance on velocity and timing to the point where it sounds like it’s a very drunk or very new drummer. And really, like the rest of modern production techniques, it’s a tool. Nobody’s forcing them to use it, and nobody’s forcing anyone to listen. Lots of folks opt to not use it, and it’s not that hard to find. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2021, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199/342 "2021-06-21T23:05:39Z")
I found the video, since I referenced Beato and quantizing music. Rick is a Grammy award winning producer. It’s interesting to look under the hood and see how a lot of modern pop music is produced. Rick has several videos on modern production. Some music is still produced without quantizing. There’s still vocalists that don’t rely heavily on auto tune. This video is more about mass produced rock & pop. Rick isn’t against using these modern methods. He’s talked about using auto tune to fix a few isolated notes in his production career. It’s overusing these tools that makes music sound artificial. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/AFaRIW-wZlw/hqdefault.jpg "How Computers Ruined Rock Music") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFaRIW-wZlw) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-music-died-in-the-1970s/944199.md?page=18)