# Real Photo? Pilot fixing engine in mid-air? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 18, 2006, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-photo-pilot-fixing-engine-in-mid-air/380965 "2006-11-18T18:35:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-photo-pilot-fixing-engine-in-mid-air/380965/21 "2006-11-19T03:15:09Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] the ailerons appear to be just slightly set to roll left [/QUOTE] Good eye! ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-photo-pilot-fixing-engine-in-mid-air/380965/22 "2006-11-19T03:19:05Z")
N88172 info: [http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNumSQL.asp?NNumbertxt=88172](http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNumSQL.asp?NNumbertxt=88172) They dropped the “C” for civilan at some point. Though it certianly could be a different plane. (Though it is interestin that it also owned by Air Ads Work) Brian ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-photo-pilot-fixing-engine-in-mid-air/380965/23 "2006-11-19T03:21:33Z")
Duh. It is obvioulsy a different plane, since N88172 was manufactured in 1974. Brian ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-photo-pilot-fixing-engine-in-mid-air/380965/24 "2006-11-19T03:22:48Z")
[QUOTE=N9IWP] Though it certianly could be a different plane. [/QUOTE] It’s a [Bellanca 7KCAB Citabria](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citabria). ---
**Author:** ![A.R.Cane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@A.R.Cane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.R.Cane)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-photo-pilot-fixing-engine-in-mid-air/380965/25 "2006-11-19T03:42:20Z")
Looks like a J-3 to me. I recall flying in one in the mid 50’s. It was owned by a C.A.P. member as described in my earlier post. I recall being put in the front seat and thinking that the pilot, behind me, couldn’t see shit as we took off. [![](http://www.bushwhackerair.com/piper%20j3%20cub.jpg) ](http://www.bushwhackerair.com/piper%20j3%20cub.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-photo-pilot-fixing-engine-in-mid-air/380965/26 "2006-11-19T03:44:15Z")
[QUOTE=A.R. Cane] Looks like a J-3 to me. [/QUOTE] I meant the one in the registry **N91WP** linked to. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-photo-pilot-fixing-engine-in-mid-air/380965/27 "2006-11-19T03:49:00Z")
I only flew in a cub once, but damn, that was fun! Like flying in a big old box kite! Those photos at the site the OP linked to are great, though. I’m tempted to post some of our old Fairchild PT-26 crash pics there! ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-photo-pilot-fixing-engine-in-mid-air/380965/28 "2006-11-19T03:59:30Z")
Am I being stupid here? Isn’t that clearly a fake in that the shadow of the tail is in a 90 degree different plane to the shadow of the pilot? ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-photo-pilot-fixing-engine-in-mid-air/380965/29 "2006-11-19T04:01:22Z")
I meant to say the sun is ahead of the plane for the tail shadow and behind it for the pilot’s. ---
**Author:** ![lazybratsche](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ba8739/32.png) [@lazybratsche](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lazybratsche)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-photo-pilot-fixing-engine-in-mid-air/380965/30 "2006-11-19T04:12:15Z")
[QUOTE=don’t ask] Am I being stupid here? Isn’t that clearly a fake in that the shadow of the tail is in a 90 degree different plane to the shadow of the pilot? [/QUOTE] The shadows look consistent to me… in both cases, it looks like the sun is straight to the right of the plane, and maybe 30 or 40 degrees up. ---
**Author:** ![lazybratsche](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ba8739/32.png) [@lazybratsche](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lazybratsche)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-photo-pilot-fixing-engine-in-mid-air/380965/31 "2006-11-19T04:15:40Z")
[QUOTE=don’t ask] Am I being stupid here? Isn’t that clearly a fake in that the shadow of the tail is in a 90 degree different plane to the shadow of the pilot? [/QUOTE] Elaborating a bit… Consider that leading edge of the tail isn’t a vertical line but is swept back, so the the shadow looks “behind”. Also, the nose is curved, so the man will cast a shadow that looks a bit “ahead” of him. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-photo-pilot-fixing-engine-in-mid-air/380965/32 "2006-11-19T10:45:11Z")
[QUOTE=A.R. Cane] Looks like a J-3 to me. [/QUOTE] Probably. The Citabria has a much more angular rudder and stabs. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-photo-pilot-fixing-engine-in-mid-air/380965/33 "2006-11-19T14:39:32Z")
[QUOTE=Broomstick] Probably. The Citabria has a much more angular rudder and stabs. [/QUOTE] Here’s what \*\* N9IWP\*\* posted: > [@](#): > > N9IWP]N88172 info: > [Office of Foundational Business | Federal Aviation Administration](http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinq...Numbertxt=88172) > … Though it certianly could be a different plane. I was only pointing out that N88172 is a 1974 Citabria, which makes is a different airplane from the one in the photo, and which I’d already mentioned was a J-3. (Sorry, I get cranky before coffee.) ---
**Author:** ![A.R.Cane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@A.R.Cane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.R.Cane)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-photo-pilot-fixing-engine-in-mid-air/380965/34 "2006-11-19T14:48:27Z")
[QUOTE=Johnny L.A.] Here’s what \*\* N9IWP\*\* posted: I was only pointing out that N88172 is a 1974 Citabria, which makes is a different airplane from the one in the photo, and which I’d already mentioned was a J-3. (Sorry, I get cranky before coffee.) [/QUOTE] Sorry Johnny, I’m the one who misinterpreted your post in the first place. After you called my attention to it I understood what you were saying. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-photo-pilot-fixing-engine-in-mid-air/380965/35 "2006-11-19T15:44:46Z")
Pilot type & long-time airshow devotee … I bet the photo is real, but certainly a staged stunt. NC registration numbers became obsolete in the late 50’s IIRC. The back seat pilot is definitely flying; if the guy we see was the only one aboard, the airplane would roll right & dive aggressively from the asymmetrical weight & drag. It is not hard to stop the prop in flight, so that is not a useful clue. Shadows on the airplane & the ground objects are well-correlated, at least well enough that we can’t say they’re wrong. Before computers, photo compositting was done with a knife, touchup & re-shoot. My grandfather was a commercial artist who did a lot of that for advertising copy. But they’d avoid compositions like this; getting it to look good around the round tires & narrow wing struts was VERY difficult. If anyone can find a source for this photo from before computers (an old book say), that’d pretty well prove it was real. ---
**Author:** ![Scruloose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@Scruloose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scruloose)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-photo-pilot-fixing-engine-in-mid-air/380965/36 "2006-11-19T16:12:39Z")
Some good info here - thanks all. I never would have guessed that the pilot is actually in the rear, out of sight, doing the actual flying. Why the ‘pilot in the back’ setup on older planes? That being the case, I can see this being a real pic, albeit most likely staged for some reason. If that were the case, how likely is it that they would intentionally stop the engine for the purposes of taking a photo? Any way to restart it in flight? Or was this engine manually started by hand? ---
**Author:** ![Scruloose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@Scruloose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scruloose)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-photo-pilot-fixing-engine-in-mid-air/380965/37 "2006-11-19T16:14:54Z")
Eh - belay that last question, as I see Johnny already answered it. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-photo-pilot-fixing-engine-in-mid-air/380965/38 "2006-11-19T16:15:38Z")
[QUOTE=Scruloose] Why the ‘pilot in the back’ setup on older planes? [/QUOTE] Semi-informed guess: Weight and Balance. ---
**Author:** ![A.R.Cane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@A.R.Cane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.R.Cane)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-photo-pilot-fixing-engine-in-mid-air/380965/39 "2006-11-19T16:26:46Z")
Am I the only one who tried blowing the pic. up? It’s to blurry to tell for sure, but it looks as if the guy has something in his hand. A scewdriver maybe? His fingers appear to be extended, as if holding something and there may be a straight object extending from them. ---
**Author:** ![Scruloose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@Scruloose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scruloose)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-photo-pilot-fixing-engine-in-mid-air/380965/40 "2006-11-19T16:34:14Z")
[QUOTE=A.R. Cane] Am I the only one who tried blowing the pic. up? It’s to blurry to tell for sure, but it looks as if the guy has something in his hand. A scewdriver maybe? His fingers appear to be extended, as if holding something and there may be a straight object extending from them. [/QUOTE] I did the same thing, and noticed the exact same thing as you did. I don’t know jack about a/c engines, but I can’t imagine that there’s anything external, within reach, that someone could ‘fix’ with one extended hand or tool. Further leading me to believe that the pic, while likely real, is staged for some unknown reason. Some people have a really warped sense of humor, and I certainly wouldn’t rule that out here. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-photo-pilot-fixing-engine-in-mid-air/380965.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-photo-pilot-fixing-engine-in-mid-air/380965.md?page=3)