# Real Photo? Pilot fixing engine in mid-air? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 18, 2006, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-photo-pilot-fixing-engine-in-mid-air/380965 "2006-11-18T18:35:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2006, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-photo-pilot-fixing-engine-in-mid-air/380965/81 "2006-11-25T05:29:51Z")
I’m not saying that in all tandems the instructor would sit in the front, only the ones where the pilot sits in the rear. In all your examples other than the Stearman, the pilot sits in the front. My googling of the Stearman showed a number of examples of the instructor sitting in the rear however I’m not sure if that was normal for military tandem seat aircraft that were flown from the rear solo. In my own experience I’ve only been a student in the usual pilots seat so when I was learning to fly a Tiger Moth, Pitts, or a Skybolt, I sat in the back, and when I was learning in a Harvard, Chipmunk, Piper Cub (modern version), Citabria etc, I sat in the front. Out of those, only the Tiger Moth is an ex military trainer flown solo from the rear. It could be that the military put the students up front of their initial trainers, even if they were flown from the rear, I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2006, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-photo-pilot-fixing-engine-in-mid-air/380965/82 "2006-11-25T05:55:36Z")
Of those, the Skybolt and the Chipmunk are the two I have never been in. Is the Chipmunk as sweet to fly as I have been told? Also rate it’s landing characteristics as to compare with other tail draggers you have flown. Please… ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2006, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-photo-pilot-fixing-engine-in-mid-air/380965/83 "2006-11-25T06:36:32Z")
Disclaimer: I only had one flight and it was about 7 years ago. I don’t remember the specifics of how it felt to fly other than that the controls were light and well balanced. Landing characteristics were benign, much like the Cub I suppose but without the hassle of using the heel brakes. The brake system took some getting used to. It had a hand brake with a bias system through the rudder pedals. With the rudder neutral the brakes would be applied evenly to both wheels. With rudder applied to the left, then brake would be applied to the left and vice versa. The hand brake had a ratchet so you could pull it on and it would lock in place. With only a couple of notches of brake applied you would get no brakes with a neutral rudder and light braking with a deflected rudder. This was then the technique for landing it. Pull on a couple of notches of brake and then you get some automatic brake assistance when trying to keep straight on the landing roll before your hand had moved from the throttle to the brake lever. It was just enough brake to give the impression that the rudder was more effective. I felt most comfortable landing a Pitts. For one, it was the aircraft I was flying the most, but also it had such positive controls that as long as you told it to do the right things, it would do them without hesitation and you’d be ok. I’d rather have been in a Pitts than a C172 in a cross wind. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2006, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-photo-pilot-fixing-engine-in-mid-air/380965/84 "2006-11-25T15:33:12Z")
[QUOTE=1920s Style “Death Ray”] In all your examples other than the Stearman, the pilot sits in the front. [/QUOTE] Good point. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2006, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-photo-pilot-fixing-engine-in-mid-air/380965/85 "2006-11-25T18:26:39Z")
[QUOTE=1920s Style “Death Ray”] Disclaimer: I only had one flight and it was about 7 years ago. ::: snip::: I felt most comfortable landing a Pitts. For one, it was the aircraft I was flying the most, but also it had such positive controls that as long as you told it to do the right things, it would do them without hesitation and you’d be ok. I’d rather have been in a Pitts than a C172 in a cross wind. [/QUOTE] Thanks, I appreciate the reply. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2006, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-photo-pilot-fixing-engine-in-mid-air/380965/86 "2006-11-25T23:08:29Z")
Does anyone remember the SNL bit What if Spartacus had a Piper Cub? IIRC Spartacus just flew over the Romans and yelled taunts at them. But I think, he sat in the front seat while a pilot sat behind him. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2006, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-photo-pilot-fixing-engine-in-mid-air/380965/87 "2006-11-25T23:26:27Z")
I have flown in three tandem-seating taildraggers. Where you sat to solo the thing was based on weight-and-balance issues. In the case of the Drifter and Citabria the instrumentation in the passenger/instructor seat was so minimal as to be nearly non-existant. In either one you can’t even start the engine from the rear seat. In the Stearman I flew both seats were pretty well outfitted with avionics (such as they were - this IS a 1943 airplane, after all). Solo is always done from the rear seat because (again) of weight and balance requirements. When I flew it I was in back and the instrutor/babysitter up front. Strictly speaking, there’s no reason _in that particular airplane_ that instructor and student couldn’t swap, and I think some of the regulars do just that from time to time although I haven’t paid much attention. So, what it comes down to, is that where you sit while flying solo is determined by physical requirements and limitations. _Normally_ the student/pilot sits in the same seat they would solo from, just as in side-by-side seating the student/pilot normally sits on the left (except in helicopters, where PIC is traditionally on the right I’m told) but it’s not _required_. ---
**Author:** ![Valgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Valgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valgard)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2006, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-photo-pilot-fixing-engine-in-mid-air/380965/88 "2006-11-26T04:51:51Z")
[QUOTE=Quartz] Not off monkey bars at a few thousand feet. [/QUOTE] I used to skydive, we’d get out and hang off the wing strut of Cessnas in flight all the time. The guy in the photo has both feet and at least one hand to brace himself with. Not saying that I’d do it without a some kind of safety wire or parachute but it’s quite doable. I’ve seen film of wingwalkers climbing all over planes with no safety. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2006, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-photo-pilot-fixing-engine-in-mid-air/380965/89 "2006-11-26T23:37:37Z")
Just a random thought here, re: photoshopping before photoshop: I know people who do composite photo stuff in the dark room, directly onto the paper using multiple enlargers and negatives. Using an exacto knife and some glue, and reshooting would probably be easier though. Also, the aforementioned composite method would be a pain in the ass for something that was supposed to have stuff visible through it, like the ground as seen between various parts of the airplane. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2006, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-photo-pilot-fixing-engine-in-mid-air/380965/90 "2006-11-26T23:55:26Z")
In 1935 the [Key brothers](http://mlsandy.home.tsixroads.com/Corinth_MLSANDY/rt125.html) set an endurance record for most continuous time in the air. They had special catwalks installed so that they could reach the engine to add oil or make minor adjustments. As far as I can tell, they were the aerial refueling pioneers. One guy flew while the other, on the catwalk, grabbed a hose lowered from a refueling plane and did the fuel transfer. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2006, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-photo-pilot-fixing-engine-in-mid-air/380965/91 "2006-11-27T00:06:29Z")
By the way, the [Roscoe Turner](http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Explorers_Record_Setters_and_Daredevils/turner/EX22.htm) mentioned in the link’s news accounts was, along with Jimmy Doolittle, a famous racing pilot of the 1930’s and the Major C.L. Chenault who joined the fun when the endurance record was set was Gen. Claire L. Chenault of Flying Tigers renown. ---
**Author:** ![A.R.Cane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@A.R.Cane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.R.Cane)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2006, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-photo-pilot-fixing-engine-in-mid-air/380965/92 "2006-11-27T00:31:27Z")
[QUOTE=David Simmons] By the way, the [Roscoe Turner](http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Explorers_Record_Setters_and_Daredevils/turner/EX22.htm) mentioned in the link’s news accounts was, along with Jimmy Doolittle, a famous racing pilot of the 1930’s and the Major C.L. Chenault who joined the fun when the endurance record was set was Gen. Claire L. Chenault of Flying Tigers renown. [/QUOTE] That was very interesting to read. I caught the passing reference to “C.L. Chenault” as well as the digs at Lindbergh and Post. Pretty funny stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2006, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-photo-pilot-fixing-engine-in-mid-air/380965/93 "2006-11-27T13:12:25Z")
At least one of the old “flying boat” airliners before WWII had top-mounted wings more or less flush with the crew compartment. There were crawlways that allowed the flight engineer to actually reach the wing-mounted engines in flight, and effect simple repairs. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2006, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-photo-pilot-fixing-engine-in-mid-air/380965/94 "2006-11-27T14:39:56Z")
[QUOTE=Spectre of Pithecanthropus] At least one of the old “flying boat” airliners before WWII had top-mounted wings more or less flush with the crew compartment. There were crawlways that allowed the flight engineer to actually reach the wing-mounted engines in flight, and effect simple repairs. [/QUOTE] That would be the [Boeing (314 and 314A) _Clipper_](http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/4515/clipper.html) > [@](#): > > The Model 314’s were Powered with four twin-row Wright Cyclones rated at 1500 h.p. 1600 h.p for the 314A (Take off power) Wright Cyclone 709C-14AC1 double row 14 Cylinder radial air-cooled geared engines, in semi-monocoque nacelles in the leading edge of the wings. Engine access during flight was through wing companion ways. Hamilton standard full- feathering constant speed proppellers. Fuel tanks in wing and Hydro stabilizers. ---
**Author:** ![Diddledog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Diddledog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diddledog)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2006, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-photo-pilot-fixing-engine-in-mid-air/380965/95 "2006-11-27T14:55:27Z")
[QUOTE=David Simmons] In 1935 the [Key brothers](http://mlsandy.home.tsixroads.com/Corinth_MLSANDY/rt125.html) set an endurance record for most continuous time in the air. They had special catwalks installed so that they could reach the engine to add oil or make minor adjustments. As far as I can tell, they were the aerial refueling pioneers. One guy flew while the other, on the catwalk, grabbed a hose lowered from a refueling plane and did the fuel transfer. [/QUOTE] Just like I said wayyyy up in post #17. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2006, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-photo-pilot-fixing-engine-in-mid-air/380965/96 "2006-11-27T15:06:13Z")
[QUOTE=Broomstick] You know, whenever one of you old codgers say that I get really, really depressed. (It certainly doesn’t help I got weathered out this weekend, too) [/QUOTE] Don’t be. The freedom of flight is still out there, you just have to know where to look. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2006, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-photo-pilot-fixing-engine-in-mid-air/380965/97 "2006-11-27T16:09:24Z")
[QUOTE=Diddledog] Just like I said wayyyy up in post #17. 😉 [/QUOTE] By golly, you’re right. Welcome to the club of people whose posts sometimes get missed. :smack: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-photo-pilot-fixing-engine-in-mid-air/380965.md?page=4)