# Real Time with Bill Maher **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2023, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-time-with-bill-maher/991367 "2023-10-10T21:03:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 60
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-time-with-bill-maher/991367/1181 "2025-11-18T19:39:58Z")
Why did I get the idea @Babale is in South Africa? Like **scudsucker**. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-time-with-bill-maher/991367/1182 "2025-11-18T19:44:08Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Thank you for quoting my actual words, in which I clearly disagreed with your hypothetical law. Those are different words than the fantastical lies you used. Cool story bro. You’ve clarified your position, I’ll quote it again just so you don’t accuse me of lying: > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > For the record, parents, not government, should decide what gender (or no gender) is printed on birth certificates. That position - that parents should be able to choose to leave sex off the birth certificate\* if they want to - is an extreme one, and certainly one that seems “too far” to me. So when you criticize Maher for his criticism of the left while holding this position that’s _very_ easy to criticize along _exactly_ the same lines Maher did, it rings _extremely_ hollow. And to be super clear, Maher was _wrong_ when he said that the law in California allows parents to leave the birth certificate with no sex and “we’ll see”; California’s law does not allow that (although it DOES allow parents to go and remove sex from the birth certificate immediately after the fact). But _your stated position_ is _more extreme_ than the Californian law, so again, you criticizing Maher when the position you hold is _closer to the law he incorrectly imagined_ than to the actual law again rings extremely hollow. \*Per your phrasing I guess they could also put the sex opposite the one the baby would be assigned if a doctor was doing the assigning, but I’m not sure if you’d actually bite the bullet and say you support parents being able to do that? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-time-with-bill-maher/991367/1183 "2025-11-18T19:55:33Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Why did I get the idea @Babale is in South Africa? South Africa, Southern California… Potato, avocado. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-time-with-bill-maher/991367/1184 "2025-11-18T20:04:41Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > It could be relevant to cases of discrimination, to joining teams or clubs or signing up to schools, to benefiting from scholarships or other programs, and so on. I’m having a hard time imagining why you’d need your _birth certificate_ for any of those. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-time-with-bill-maher/991367/1185 "2025-11-18T20:04:54Z")
Here’s a hypothetical for you, Babs, would you prefer if California state agents conduct children’s underwear checks to audit birth certificates, or would you rather roll up your sleeves and do it yourself? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-time-with-bill-maher/991367/1186 "2025-11-18T20:05:41Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I’m having a hard time imagining why you’d need your _birth certificate_ for any of those That might just be because “It” in that quote is not, in fact, talking about your birth certificate. Review the quote that the post you quoted is quoting to see what “it” was. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-time-with-bill-maher/991367/1187 "2025-11-18T20:07:28Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > would you rather California state agents conduct children’s underwear checks to audit birth certificates, or would you rather roll up your sleeves and do it yourself? You have some very interesting ideas about what happens when a birth certificate is issued. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-time-with-bill-maher/991367/1188 "2025-11-18T20:07:48Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > That might just be because “It” in that quote is not, in fact, talking about your birth certificate. Review the quote that the post you quoted is quoting to see what “it” was. Okay… > [@doreen](#): > > I’ve got a question for you - and it’s a serious question. Why would it be a dumb idea to take sex off the birth certificate? > [@Babale](#): > > Because your sex has legal implications, so there should be official government record of your sex. > [@doreen](#): > > What legal implications does my sex have? I can’t think of any except maybe which jail/prison I go to, which isn’t something most people need to worry about. > [@Babale](#): > > It could be relevant to cases of discrimination, to joining teams or clubs or signing up to schools, to benefiting from scholarships or other programs, and so on. It really does seem like you’re talking about birth certificates, there. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-time-with-bill-maher/991367/1189 "2025-11-18T20:08:22Z")
Clarifying (yet again) that [Maher was wrong](http://yahoo.com/news/articles/bill-maher-blasts-dems-ditching-165024839.html). "Maher then said some states went as far as saying “let’s not even put [gender] on the birth certificate.” “Were we teaching that?” Oswalt asked. “Teaching it? It was a law here in California!” Maher shot back. “He was likely referring to California, in 2019, becoming the first state to [put “non-binary”](https://www.fox23.com/news/trending/gender-neutral-birth-certificate-approved-in-california/article_e4697e26-286c-5b58-9809-7b3ce44c5466.html) as the gender designation on birth certificates.” (note that the law does not prohibit designating ‘M’ or ‘F’ on birth certificates). “Teach what?” Oswalt followed up." “Don’t put sex on the birth certificate!” Maher said. “We’ll see. Now, we’ve passed that period now.” "Oswalt said he did not remember that, and Maher said that is because a lot of it does not permeate the “Bluesky bubble.” This kerfuffle is another illustration that facts are not allowed to penetrate Maher’s fantasy bubble of being a brave-maverick-speaking-truth-to-Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-time-with-bill-maher/991367/1190 "2025-11-18T20:12:11Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > It really does seem like you’re talking about birth certificates, there I’m talking about your legal sex. The birth certificate is one of the places where your legal sex is recorded. It’s the _first_ place where your legal sex is recorded, and for the first few years of life until you need a passport or something it’s the _only_ place where your legal sex is recorded, but later on in life that changes. For example, my daughter just enrolled in a new school, and they put her in the system as female; they needed documentation from us when we signed her up, and we provided them with the birth certificate to show that my daughter: 1. is in fact our daughter 2. is the age we say she is 3. is a female 4. is legally named what we said she is named Etc… ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-time-with-bill-maher/991367/1191 "2025-11-18T20:12:30Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > > [@kaylasdad99](#): > > > > Why did I get the idea @Babale is in South Africa? > > South Africa, Southern California… Potato, avocado. Now I’m trying to imagine what food would be good with potatoes _and_ avocados. Maybe a breakfast burrito with guacamole on the side… ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-time-with-bill-maher/991367/1192 "2025-11-18T20:14:43Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > For example, my daughter just enrolled in a new school, and they put her in the system as female; they needed documentation from us when we signed her up, and we provided them with the birth certificate to show that my daughter: > > 1. is in fact our daughter > 2. is the age we say she is > 3. is a female > 4. is legally named what we said she is named > > Etc… And if “Sex” wasn’t on your daughter’s birth certificate, what about this process would have been stymied? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-time-with-bill-maher/991367/1193 "2025-11-18T20:15:24Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > And if “Sex” wasn’t on your daughter’s birth certificate, what about this process would have been stymied?. Then there wouldn’t be legal record of her sex. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-time-with-bill-maher/991367/1194 "2025-11-18T20:15:47Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Then there wouldn’t be legal record of her sex. And that’s bad because… ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-time-with-bill-maher/991367/1195 "2025-11-18T20:17:32Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > And that’s bad because…. If you don’t think that eliminating the legal record keeping of people’s sex, then that’s fine; that’s a position you can take and argue for or against. But then it’s _exceedingly silly_ if you get offended by Bill Maher saying “some people on the Left wanted to take gender off the birth certificate”. Instead of screeching in horror about what a liar Bill Maher is, say what you just said - “Why would that be bad?”. _You_ didn’t do that, to be clear. And if that’s your criticism of Maher - that he opposes positions that you support - then great, criticize him for that all you want. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-time-with-bill-maher/991367/1196 "2025-11-18T20:18:43Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > _You_ didn’t do that, to be clear. Then why is that your reply to me, instead of answering the question I actually asked? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-time-with-bill-maher/991367/1197 "2025-11-18T20:19:02Z")
To be clear, Maher made the false claim that California made it a law to not put sex on birth certificates. He didn’t say “some on the left want to do this”, he said California did it. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-time-with-bill-maher/991367/1198 "2025-11-18T20:19:55Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > > [@Miller](#): > > > > It really does seem like you’re talking about birth certificates, there > > I’m talking about your legal sex. > > The birth certificate is one of the places where your legal sex is recorded. It’s the _first_ place where your legal sex is recorded, and for the first few years of life until you need a passport or something it’s the _only_ place where your legal sex is recorded, but later on in life that changes. You _do_ understand that “sex” and “gender” are two different things, right? (and, AIUI, one can have their “legal sex” surgically altered) ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-time-with-bill-maher/991367/1199 "2025-11-18T20:21:01Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > That might just be because “It” in that quote is not, in fact, talking about your birth certificate. Review the quote that the post you quoted is quoting to see what “it” was. So, reading your subsequent posts, it was the birth certificate all along… ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-time-with-bill-maher/991367/1200 "2025-11-18T20:24:36Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Then why is that your reply to me, instead of answering the question I actually asked?. Because this is a thread about Bill Maher. If you want an answer to your question - I think we _should_ keep legal record of people’s sex; as long as the law doesn’t treat men and women identically (and it doesn’t, it would be very difficult to overcome the history of gender based discrimination faced by women if the law just pretended none of this existed and treated men and women identically) then we need a legal distinction between the sexes. While it’s true that sex isn’t binary and putting “Male” or “Female” on the birth certificate doesn’t work in 100% of cases, the system _does_ work in the overwhelming majority of cases, especially when the system includes the ability to change the legally assigned sex after the fact. The fact that the system doesn’t work in all cases means that we should make accomodations for those cases where it doesn’t work; it doesn’t mean that we should toss out the entire system. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-time-with-bill-maher/991367.md?page=59) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-time-with-bill-maher/991367.md?page=61)