# Real Time with Bill Maher **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2023, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-time-with-bill-maher/991367 "2023-10-10T21:03:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 61
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-time-with-bill-maher/991367/1201 "2025-11-18T20:26:00Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > You _do_ understand that “sex” and “gender” are two different things, right? Yes, that’s why I’ve been fairly careful to consistently use the term “sex” here since that’s what we are discussing. Why, did I slip up and incorrectly say “gender”? > [@kaylasdad99](#): > > (and, AIUI, one can have their “legal sex” surgically altered) You understand incorrectly, at least in the US. You do not need sex reassignment surgery to legally change your sex. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-time-with-bill-maher/991367/1202 "2025-11-18T20:26:26Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > To be clear, Maher made the false claim that California made it a law to not put sex on birth certificates. He didn’t say “some on the left want to do this”, he said California did it. {Jedi mind trick} What Maher said was true, from a certain point of view. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-time-with-bill-maher/991367/1203 "2025-11-18T20:27:46Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > If you want an answer to your question - I think we _should_ keep legal record of people’s sex; as long as the law doesn’t treat men and women identically (and it doesn’t, it would be very difficult to overcome the history of gender based discrimination faced by women if the law just pretended none of this existed and treated men and women identically) then we need a legal distinction between the sexes. How does having sex on a birth certificate make it easier to fight gender discrimination? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-time-with-bill-maher/991367/1204 "2025-11-18T20:36:50Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > > [@kaylasdad99](#): > > > > You _do_ understand that “sex” and “gender” are two different things, right? > > Yes, that’s why I’ve been fairly careful to consistently use the term “sex” here since that’s what we are discussing. Why, did I slip up and incorrectly say “gender”? > > > [@kaylasdad99](#): > > > > (and, AIUI, one can have their “legal sex” surgically altered) > > You understand incorrectly, at least in the US. You do not need sex reassignment surgery to legally change your sex. Maybe the California birth certificate should have a box for “gender” next to the one for “sex” that’s optional to fill out, and alterable at the behest of the parents or adult (or emancipated minor) subject of the BC. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-time-with-bill-maher/991367/1205 "2025-11-18T20:40:43Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > How does having sex on a birth certificate make it easier to fight gender discrimination?. It doesn’t. Having legal record of someone’s sex makes it much easier to deal with _all_ of the cases I mentioned above because it means there is an official answer to the question, “what is this person’s sex?”. There will still be cases where the official answer needs amending, but they’d be limited to a very small subset of a very small group - trans people who didn’t yet go and change their legal sex. Since the birth certificate is the only document that exists when you’re born, it makes sense to put sex there rather than a separate “Sex Certificate” or something. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-time-with-bill-maher/991367/1206 "2025-11-18T20:44:17Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > It doesn’t. Then what’s the need for having it on birth certificates again? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-time-with-bill-maher/991367/1207 "2025-11-18T20:45:24Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Then what’s the need for having it on birth certificates again?. It doesn’t have to be on the birth certificate; we could instead issue a “sex certificate” at birth in addition to a birth certificate with the sex assigned at birth on it. But… What would splitting it off to a separate form accomplish? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-time-with-bill-maher/991367/1208 "2025-11-18T20:46:22Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > But… What would splitting it off to a separate form accomplish? I’m still trying to figure out what having it on the original form in the first places accomplishes. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-time-with-bill-maher/991367/1209 "2025-11-18T20:47:01Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I’m still trying to figure out what having it on the original form in the first places accomplishes Having legal record of what your sex is. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-time-with-bill-maher/991367/1210 "2025-11-18T20:47:50Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Having legal record of what your sex is. Which we need because… ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-time-with-bill-maher/991367/1211 "2025-11-18T20:49:33Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Which we need because…. Pretty sure we already did this: > [@Babale](#): > > Having legal record of someone’s sex makes it much easier to deal with _all_ of the cases I mentioned above because it means there is an official answer to the question, “what is this person’s sex?”. There will still be cases where the official answer needs amending, but they’d be limited to a very small subset of a very small group - trans people who didn’t yet go and change their legal sex. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-time-with-bill-maher/991367/1212 "2025-11-18T20:53:12Z")
Oh, we certainly have. Why not go through the loop one more time? How does having sex on a birth certificate help with any of that? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-time-with-bill-maher/991367/1213 "2025-11-18T20:53:55Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Having legal record of someone’s sex makes it much easier to deal with _all_ of the cases I mentioned above because it means there is an official answer to the question, “what is this person’s sex?”. Of course discrimination based on race requires evidence that the victim is of the race being discriminated against and not, simply, evidence of the nature of the discrimination. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-time-with-bill-maher/991367/1214 "2025-11-18T20:55:37Z")
@Miller here is an example. Let’s say that I wanted to send my daughter to a girls only school. (I certainly _don’t_, but let’s pretend I did). Right now, I’d sign her up and send in her birth certificate which would verify a bunch of the information the school needs, including her sex. If my daughter was trans, then before I do this I would need to have legally changed her sex, which my state has a system in place for me to do. Under your system, where there is no sex on the birth certificate, how do I prove to the girls’ only school that my daughter meets their requirements to join? How do I get my daughter legally declared female after the fact (which under your system I would have to do regardless of whether she was AMAB or AFAB) and what document does that info go on? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-time-with-bill-maher/991367/1215 "2025-11-18T20:59:11Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Under your system, where there is no sex on the birth certificate, how do I prove to the girls’ only school that my daughter meets their requirements to join? They just take your word for it when you tell them your daughter is a girl? Is “parents lying about their son’s gender so they can attend all-girls schools” something you anticipate happening a lot? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-time-with-bill-maher/991367/1216 "2025-11-18T21:03:46Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > They just take your word for it when you tell them your daughter is a girl? Then why have a birth certificate at all? Why require documentation of the kids’ name or their age or the address where they live? The overwhelming majority of people aren’t going to lie about any of those things, but the school doesn’t “take my word” for any of that. > [@Miller](#): > > Is “parents lying about their son’s gender so they can attend all-girls schools” something you anticipate happening a lot? No, but neither is “parents lying about their son’s name” or “parents lying about their son’s age”. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-time-with-bill-maher/991367/1217 "2025-11-18T21:24:22Z")
Those aren’t really legal implications - you don’t have to send your child to an all girls school, nobody has to join a team or club. And btw, sometimes a birth certificate isn’t good enough for a team. Sometimes genetic tests are required because physically appearing female doesn’t mean the genes match the appearance. And as far as discrimination goes- birth certificates in my state don’t list race or religion or national origin and it doesn’t seem to present any problems when people claim they are discriminated against based on one of those factors. ---
**Author:** ![Zoobi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/13edae/32.png) [@Zoobi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoobi)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-time-with-bill-maher/991367/1218 "2025-11-18T21:33:36Z")
He’s worried about sports. He’s convinced that there is a coming (or even existing) wave of men pretending to be women to ruin women’s sports. You see people like him and JK Rowling constantly performing “transvestigations” on X. For example that Syrian Olympic boxer and Barbra Banda the soccer player. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-time-with-bill-maher/991367/1219 "2025-11-18T21:34:09Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Then why have a birth certificate at all? Why require documentation of the kids’ name or their age or the address where they live? Well, establishing citizenship is a pretty valid use. Age, as well. I can think of plenty of cases where establishing that is 100% justifiable. But we’re talking specifically about including sex, and the one scenario you came up with is, “What if you’re enrolling your kid in an all-girls school?” So I’m addressing that specific scenario, where it really does not appear to be necessary at all. If you’ve got a better scenario where it would be necessary, I’m all ears. > [@](#): > > No, but neither is “parents lying about their son’s name” or “parents lying about their son’s age”. It sounds like the whole “school needing a birth certificate” is actually sort of unnecessary then, doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-time-with-bill-maher/991367/1220 "2025-11-18T21:34:32Z")
> [@Zoobi](#): > > He’s worried about sports. He’s convinced that there is a coming (or even existing) wave of men pretending to be women to ruin women’s sports. Thanks, but I don’t really need other people to explain **Babale** ’s posts to me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-time-with-bill-maher/991367.md?page=60) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/real-time-with-bill-maher/991367.md?page=62)