# Realistic ways that the shutdown could end **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 22, 2019, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/realistic-ways-that-the-shutdown-could-end/828215 "2019-01-22T18:19:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/realistic-ways-that-the-shutdown-could-end/828215/121 "2019-01-25T13:34:52Z")
> [@Ancient\_Erudite](#): > > Would over 50,000 crime victims a year qualify for a national emergency? I’m sure, then, that you’d be OK with a Democratic president declaring a national emergency in order to confiscate all firearms… Small government conservatives _should_ be appalled by the idea of a strong executive using a phony security scare to impose draconian rules on America and squander taxpayer dollars. I’m honestly amazed at how quickly people have been to flip on their principles to support a boondoggle that nobody (except Trump) really wanted in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/realistic-ways-that-the-shutdown-could-end/828215/122 "2019-01-25T13:41:30Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > I’m sure, then, that you’d be OK with a Democratic president declaring a national emergency in order to confiscate all firearms… > > Small government conservatives _should_ be appalled by the idea of a strong executive using a phony security scare to impose draconian rules on America and squander taxpayer dollars. I’m honestly amazed at how quickly people have been to flip on their principles to support a boondoggle that nobody (except Trump) really wanted in the first place. Fact is that the Republicans are the pro-authoritarian party now. It isn’t to say _all_ Republicans are authoritarians, but the Republicans are more than happy to accept them with open arms. The Republicans are for small gov’t in the sense of a small cadre of Republicans being in total authoritative control, and maintain that control by any means necessary. Democracy optional. The only way the party will get cleaned up is if the non-authoritarian Republicans stand up to them and demand that they cut it out. That’s not going to happen though because politics in the USA has become a sport. It is about my side winning and to an increasing degree your side losing (those libtard tears). I fear for the future of the USA citizens. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/realistic-ways-that-the-shutdown-could-end/828215/123 "2019-01-25T14:10:21Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > That is negotiation. You get a little bit; the other side gets a little bit. The Dems are winning the PR battle now, but if Trump keeps coming their way and the Dem response is just no, no, no, no, no, we hate Trump!, no, no, no State of the Union!, wah, wah, then the PR will start to flip. > > I have yet to see the Dems put forward any position other than “We get everything we want and you get nothing.” That is bad faith and it will start hurting them. The problem, as **iiandyiii** points out, is that Democrats started their negotiations with a bipartisan solution. They should have picked a more aggressive starting point, say, impeachment and removal of Kavanaugh from SCOTUS. Then they could offer Trump little concessions on border security and they’d look like the one’s negotiating in good faith. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/realistic-ways-that-the-shutdown-could-end/828215/124 "2019-01-25T14:18:30Z")
> [@Ancient\_Erudite](#): > > Better border security is needed to protect USA citizens. I’d say the above qualifies as a national emergency. Dems had there chance to take a deal. Time to end the shutdown. None of this has anything to do with Trump’s wall. None of this has anything to do with the shutdown. The Democrats have offered many billions for real and modern border security improvements. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/realistic-ways-that-the-shutdown-could-end/828215/125 "2019-01-25T14:31:58Z")
> [@songsearch1](#): > > So let’s do a hypothetical. You are a democrat congressperson, and you just created a new bureau of whatever through legislation. You need a department head, an apointee to run the place. So, who do you recommend be appointed, someone you know, perhaps a fellow democrat, or do you just blindly pick a card out of the deck and shove it into the job, maybe even a republican? That’s not how this works. That’s not how any of this works. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/realistic-ways-that-the-shutdown-could-end/828215/126 "2019-01-25T14:33:53Z")
> [@Ancient\_Erudite](#): > > Fixed it for you. > > Does this quality as a nation security issue? > > Taken from [https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/president-donald-j-trump-stands-victims-illegal-alien-crime/](https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/president-donald-j-trump-stands-victims-illegal-alien-crime/) > > 2011 Government Accountability Office report found nearly 3 million offenses tied to criminal aliens, including: > > More than 25,000 homicide offenses. > More than 42,000 robbery offenses. > Nearly 70,000 sex crime offenses. > Nearly 15,000 kidnapping offenses. > > In Texas alone, more than 250,000 criminal aliens have been arrested and charged with over 600,000 criminal offenses within the last seven years. > > In fiscal year 2017, more than 8,000 criminal illegal aliens in police custody were released back into our communities as a result of sanctuary policies. > I didn’t even touch on the drug problem, weapons trafficking, human trafficking, or the abuse illegal immigrant women and children may face. It’s not like an illegal alien can call the police. > > Better border security is needed to protect USA citizens. I’d say the above qualifies as a national emergency. Dems had there chance to take a deal. Time to end the shutdown. Do not change my quote. That’s a big breach of etiquette. Where’s the **moderator**? And no, the dems did not vote for a “wall.” How many times does that bullshit need to be refuted before you stop asserting it? ---
**Author:** ![Ancient\_Erudite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Ancient\_Erudite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ancient_Erudite)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/realistic-ways-that-the-shutdown-could-end/828215/127 "2019-01-25T14:45:37Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > No. Next question. No? Why not? It’s a lot more than 50,000 BeepKillBeep. I guess you’re okay with USA citizens being victims. A President’s primary duty is to protect the citizens. ---
**Author:** ![Ancient\_Erudite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Ancient\_Erudite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ancient_Erudite)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/realistic-ways-that-the-shutdown-could-end/828215/128 "2019-01-25T14:49:50Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > Do not change my quote. That’s a big breach of etiquette. Where’s the **moderator**? > > And no, the dems did not vote for a “wall.” How many times does that bullshit need to be refuted before you stop asserting it? Okay my apologies for changing a quote. I’m new here. Have you ever heard of the Secure Fence Act of 2006? Yes Akaj, they did vote for 700 miles on a barrier. > **[Fact-check: Did top Democrats vote for a border wall in 2006](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2017/apr/23/mick-mulvaney/fact-check-did-top-democrats-vote-border-wall-2006/)** > > White House budget director Mick Mulvaney said he doesn’t understand Democratic opposition to funding the border wall be The Secure Fence Act of 2006, which was passed by a Republican Congress and signed by President George W. Bush, authorized about 700 miles of fencing along certain stretches of land between the border of the United States and Mexico. The act also authorized the use of more vehicle barriers, checkpoints and lighting to curb illegal immigration, and the use of advanced technology such as satellites and unmanned aerial vehicles. At the time the act was being considered, Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton and Chuck Schumer were all members of the Senate. (Schumer of New York is now the Senate minority leader.) \*\* Obama, Clinton, Schumer and 23 other Democratic senators voted in favor of the act when it passed in the Senate by a vote of 80 to 19.\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/realistic-ways-that-the-shutdown-could-end/828215/129 "2019-01-25T15:00:14Z")
Couple of observations: I seem to recall that govt programs/hiring/expenditures didn’t exactly plummet under R presidents, or when Rs controlled either/both houses of Congress. Could folk just stop trying to equate excessive gov’t w/ D? Why are Ds obstructionist now, when Rs had the opportunity to fund the wall at any time over the past 2 yrs? While people can cite data re: crime attributed to illegal aliens, what percentage of those aliens would have been stopped by a wall? Trump has retreated from his campaign promise of a concrete wall across the entire border, to simply proposing enhanced fencing at strategic points. Does that MATTER TO HIS BASE? Moreover, isn’t any difference between Trump’s desired additional fencing and D proposals for enhanced security essentially semantic? I’m torn between whether I wish the Ds to deny Trump his ridiculous dream of $5.7B for a wall, or whether they should give him the $5.7B (a pittance WRT the entire budget) in exchange for whatever they can get from the “master negotiator.” Not sure which approach would achieve more in terms of policy and political capital. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/realistic-ways-that-the-shutdown-could-end/828215/130 "2019-01-25T15:01:22Z")
> [@Ancient\_Erudite](#): > > Okay my apologies for changing a quote. I’m new here. > > Have you ever heard of the Secure Fence Act of 2006? Yes Akaj, they did vote for 700 miles on a barrier. > > [https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/apr/23/mick-mulvaney/fact-check-did-top-democrats-vote-border-wall-2006/](https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/apr/23/mick-mulvaney/fact-check-did-top-democrats-vote-border-wall-2006/) > > The Secure Fence Act of 2006, which was passed by a Republican Congress and signed by President George W. Bush, authorized about 700 miles of fencing along certain stretches of land between the border of the United States and Mexico. > > The act also authorized the use of more vehicle barriers, checkpoints and lighting to curb illegal immigration, and the use of advanced technology such as satellites and unmanned aerial vehicles. > > At the time the act was being considered, Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton and Chuck Schumer were all members of the Senate. (Schumer of New York is now the Senate minority leader.) > \*\* > Obama, Clinton, Schumer and 23 other Democratic senators voted in favor of the act when it passed in the Senate by a vote of 80 to 19.\*\* 700 miles of fencing, vehicle barriers, checkpoints and lighting does not equal 2000 miles of wall. Everyone agrees border security is important, but only Trump and his idiotic followers think a wall is the best way to accomplish it. Or do they? They wasted the last two years when they could have funded it. Hmm, wonder why. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/realistic-ways-that-the-shutdown-could-end/828215/131 "2019-01-25T15:07:44Z")
> [@Ancient\_Erudite](#): > > Fixed it for you. > > Does this quality as a nation security issue? > > Taken from [https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/president-donald-j-trump-stands-victims-illegal-alien-crime/](https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/president-donald-j-trump-stands-victims-illegal-alien-crime/) > > 2011 Government Accountability Office report found nearly 3 million offenses tied to criminal aliens, including: > > More than 25,000 homicide offenses. > More than 42,000 robbery offenses. > Nearly 70,000 sex crime offenses. > Nearly 15,000 kidnapping offenses. > > In Texas alone, more than 250,000 criminal aliens have been arrested and charged with over 600,000 criminal offenses within the last seven years. > > In fiscal year 2017, more than 8,000 criminal illegal aliens in police custody were released back into our communities as a result of sanctuary policies. > I didn’t even touch on the drug problem, weapons trafficking, human trafficking, or the abuse illegal immigrant women and children may face. It’s not like an illegal alien can call the police. > > Better border security is needed to protect USA citizens. I’d say the above qualifies as a national emergency. Dems had there chance to take a deal. Time to end the shutdown. AE, I’m going to let you slide here as you’ve already apologized. But you should know it’s explicitly against the rules to alter text in quote boxes. This is a hard-learned rule on our part with much justification. Please take the time to read the rules of Great Debates and the rest of the Straight Dope Message Board. We’re a find place for debate and discussion - and some dipstick jokes - but we come by that through trying hard to not have the sort of behavior that poisons other online communities. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/realistic-ways-that-the-shutdown-could-end/828215/132 "2019-01-25T15:18:20Z")
> [@Ancient\_Erudite](#): > > No? Why not? > > It’s a lot more than 50,000 BeepKillBeep. > > I guess you’re okay with USA citizens being victims. A President’s primary duty is to protect the citizens. It isn’t up to me to say why not, it would be up to you to say why it is. What’s your justification? What makes 50,000 (or more) crimes a national emergency? What’s the cutoff point and why? Unless of course you’re saying that anything can be a national emergency without any justification. That sounds awfully authoritarian to me, and last I checked USA citizens don’t approve of authoritarianism. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/realistic-ways-that-the-shutdown-could-end/828215/133 "2019-01-25T15:18:54Z")
> [@songsearch1](#): > > So let’s do a hypothetical. No, let’s not. Let’s do a “you made a claim, please back it up or admit it was just opinon and therefore of limited value.” ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/realistic-ways-that-the-shutdown-could-end/828215/134 "2019-01-25T15:21:51Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > The Dems are winning the PR battle now, but if Trump keeps coming their way and the Dem response is just no, no, no, no, no, we hate Trump!, no, no, no State of the Union!, wah, wah, then the PR will start to flip. Honestly, the democratic messaging on this is pretty consistent: “open the government, then we can negotiate”. And because that’s a simple, principled, reasonable stance to take, [they’re winning](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/1/23/18194184/trump-shutdown-polling). If the wall is worth having, > [@](#): > > I have yet to see the Dems put forward any position other than “We get everything we want and you get nothing.” That is bad faith and it will start hurting them. Y’wanna unpack some baggage here, bud? Define “everything we want”. What, _exactly_, are the democrats demanding here that’s so outlandish? Because last I checked, what the democrats want is a clean continuing resolution - to pass the same bill which the senate passed 100-0 in december. And, as a matter of fact, they’ve passed exactly that bill in the house. It’s _entirely_ on senate republicans to take that bill up for a vote. Now, if you want to talk about “bad faith”, here’s some bad faith: what Mitch McConnell is doing. He’s pretending that “reopening the government” is something that actually counts as a concession. He’s pretending that he’s giving up ground if we reopen the government. This is bad faith, because the reality is, republicans want the government open as well. Neither party actually wants a government shutdown. Just like, in 2011, neither party actually wanted a government default. But one party finds it very convenient to be able to take hostages. The senate voted _unanimously_ in favor of the same bill that the house has already passed not a month ago. What changed since then, other than knowing that they’d need to overrule a presidential veto (which a unanimous vote easily could)? Instead of negotiating in good faith, they insist instead on _forcing hundreds of thousands of people to go without pay for more than a month_. The democrats are winning on messaging because what the republicans are doing is obvious to anyone who is paying attention, and most people do not approve of hostage-taking. The democrats don’t really have much choice, either - if this tactic ends up working, then there’s nothing to stop the republicans from pulling the exact same shit the next time they want something. So fuck that noise. You want to apportion blame for this? Put it on senate republicans who insist on attaching conditions to doing the right thing. > [@Ancient\_Erudite](#): > > Would over 50,000 crime victims a year qualify for a national emergency? Stripped of all context like this? Nah. Next question. > [@Ancient\_Erudite](#): > > Does this quality as a nation security issue? > > Taken from [https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/president-donald-j-trump-stands-victims-illegal-alien-crime/](https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/president-donald-j-trump-stands-victims-illegal-alien-crime/) That’s not a source. That’s a press briefing from someone who has lied upwards of 8,000 times in the last two years. Anyone taking this white house at its word has been quite thoroughly conned. When come back, bring actual source. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/realistic-ways-that-the-shutdown-could-end/828215/135 "2019-01-25T15:37:50Z")
> [@songsearch1](#): > > Do you seriouly think the people in Trump’s cabinet opposed him in the election? If you think there’s no corruption going on in Congress, go read about Abscam: [Abscam - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abscam) Nobody has claimed that there is NO corruption in Congress, and Abscam 1. Happened over thirty years ago, and 2. Has nothing to do with what this thread is about. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/realistic-ways-that-the-shutdown-could-end/828215/136 "2019-01-25T15:44:54Z")
> [@Ancient\_Erudite](#): > > A President’s primary duty is to protect the citizens. Trump has failed at this, again and again. His shutdown right now is hurting millions of Americans (including me and my family). His racist symbol of a wall will do nothing to help national security, and will greatly harm it, by standing as a symbol of hatred that will continue to sour international opinion against America. His shutdown is weakening our economy, which is directly related to national security. The DoD reports that the greatest long-term threat to our national security is climate change, and Trump’s policies are doing nothing but making that worse. Trump is a terrible president because he’s hurting Americans, weakening our national security, spreading hatred and bigotry, and much more. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/realistic-ways-that-the-shutdown-could-end/828215/137 "2019-01-25T15:51:14Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > You do realize that the Federal employees are going to get paid, right? And that we’ll have to pay them their back salary even though they weren’t working, right? > > This is like saving money by refusing to pay your credit card bill. I live in DC, I know many federal workers. From the statements you are making, you are obviously not very well informed about the specific challenges federal employees face in a prolonged shutdown. Also, what portion of the phrase “delays their pay” is causing you confusion? I think that statement should be able to clearly indicate that I do, indeed, understand that they will be paid at some point. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/realistic-ways-that-the-shutdown-could-end/828215/138 "2019-01-25T15:51:31Z")
> [@Ancient\_Erudite](#): > > Taken from [https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/president-donald-j-trump-stands-victims-illegal-alien-crime/](https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/president-donald-j-trump-stands-victims-illegal-alien-crime/) > > 2011 Government Accountability Office report found nearly 3 million offenses tied to criminal aliens, including: > > More than 25,000 homicide offenses. > More than 42,000 robbery offenses. > Nearly 70,000 sex crime offenses. > Nearly 15,000 kidnapping offenses. Speaking of sources, here’s a [link](https://www.gao.gov/new.items/d11187.pdf) to the GAO report that you reference. In that report, on page 2, you will find this little nugget of information: > [@](#): > > GAO analyzed a random sample of 1,000 criminal aliens to **estimate arrest information** due to the large volume of arrests and offenses. Bolding mine. In other words, the numbers for the various offenses that you have listed are not exactly real. Furthermore, if you would take the time to read the first couple of pages of the report, you will find that the report is based on a study of criminal aliens, **both legal and illegal**. And you will also find that legal aliens outnumber illegal aliens. Citing these figures as a claim of criminal activity by illegal immigrants is just plain wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/realistic-ways-that-the-shutdown-could-end/828215/139 "2019-01-25T16:10:25Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Instead of negotiating in good faith, they insist instead on _forcing hundreds of thousands of people to go without pay for more than a month_. Speaking of which, LaGuardia is now halting inbound flights due to staffing shortages. Hmm. And [this](https://twitter.com/ParkerMolloy/status/1088820219148189697) is just about the best take I’ve seen on it: Jan 2018: Lol. Look at Trump trying to take credit for planes not falling out of the sky. All he had to do with _literally nothing_ for that to happen. Great job, genius. Jan 2019: Somehow he found a way to fuck this up? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/realistic-ways-that-the-shutdown-could-end/828215/140 "2019-01-25T16:16:02Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > Speaking of sources, here’s a [link](https://www.gao.gov/new.items/d11187.pdf) to the GAO report that you reference. > > In that report, on page 2, you will find this little nugget of information: > > Bolding mine. > > In other words, the numbers for the various offenses that you have listed are not exactly real. Furthermore, if you would take the time to read the first couple of pages of the report, you will find that the report is based on a study of criminal aliens, **both legal and illegal**. And you will also find that legal aliens outnumber illegal aliens. > > Citing these figures as a claim of criminal activity by illegal immigrants is just plain wrong. Trump. Always. Lies. Anyone who hasn’t figured that out yet is not paying attention. Taking him or his administration at their word is just nuts at this point. They cannot be trusted. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/realistic-ways-that-the-shutdown-could-end/828215.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/realistic-ways-that-the-shutdown-could-end/828215.md?page=8)