# Realistically, what level of taxation are we looking at if Bernie wins and has a blue Congress? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 27, 2020, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/realistically-what-level-of-taxation-are-we-looking-at-if-bernie-wins-and-has-a-blue-congress/848624 "2020-02-27T21:45:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2020, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/realistically-what-level-of-taxation-are-we-looking-at-if-bernie-wins-and-has-a-blue-congress/848624/21 "2020-02-28T20:22:58Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I spent everything as soon as I got it, and he saved some of it and put it into an index fund. Now he’s got more than me. No fair! … said nobody ever. I’ll give Republicans one thing: they constantly want to remind Americans how terrible the economy of the 1990s was, before the Bush and Trump tax cuts. I mean, it must have been terrible. Were you there for that economic nightmare, **Shodan**? Did people actually put [boots in pots of water to make soup](https://www.deviantart.com/2oonscap3/art/Boot-Soup-762104266) because nobody had any money? ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2020, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/realistically-what-level-of-taxation-are-we-looking-at-if-bernie-wins-and-has-a-blue-congress/848624/22 "2020-02-28T21:12:14Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > …So the short answer is No, he won’t raise _your_ taxes at all! Really! Just on those evil billionaires, investors, people who drive gas-powered cars, or own stock Really! . I was with you until you got to the part about “people who drive gas-powered cars”. Are you saying that driving my Nissan makes me a member of the fossil fuel industry? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2020, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/realistically-what-level-of-taxation-are-we-looking-at-if-bernie-wins-and-has-a-blue-congress/848624/23 "2020-02-29T07:30:57Z")
This will come as good news for some and bad news for others, but … [guess what?] … If Sanders is elected with 50+ pro-people Senators, and even if the 50+ pro-people Senators deny Moscow Mitch his cloture-rule veto, _ **Sanders’ program will still not pass Congress.** _ hth. ---
**Author:** ![ataraxy22](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ataraxy22/32/307_2.png) [@ataraxy22](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ataraxy22)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2020, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/realistically-what-level-of-taxation-are-we-looking-at-if-bernie-wins-and-has-a-blue-congress/848624/24 "2020-02-29T07:48:41Z")
you will pay less overall. but the problem is, non-white people might benefit, so it will never happen in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2020, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/realistically-what-level-of-taxation-are-we-looking-at-if-bernie-wins-and-has-a-blue-congress/848624/25 "2020-02-29T07:50:23Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > But - if we look at taxes and taxes alone, for this thread - what percentage are we realistically looking at? Not to fight the hypothetical too hard, but the **realistic** outcome has very little to do with Bernie Sanders. The Bernie Sanders tax law would be the same as the Joe Biden tax law, with perhaps one or two minor differences accounting for things they really work the phones to change. The presidential election won’t change what, say, Joe Manchin or Kyrsten Sinema are willing to vote for. ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2020, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/realistically-what-level-of-taxation-are-we-looking-at-if-bernie-wins-and-has-a-blue-congress/848624/26 "2020-02-29T14:08:06Z")
I would get a $9,000 a year increase in pay because my employer would no longer shell that out for medical insurance. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2020, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/realistically-what-level-of-taxation-are-we-looking-at-if-bernie-wins-and-has-a-blue-congress/848624/27 "2020-02-29T14:57:37Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > I was with you until you got to the part about “people who drive gas-powered cars”. Are you saying that driving my Nissan makes me a member of the fossil fuel industry? It means you will be paying more for gasoline, directly or indirectly, or both. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2020, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/realistically-what-level-of-taxation-are-we-looking-at-if-bernie-wins-and-has-a-blue-congress/848624/28 "2020-02-29T18:13:18Z")
> [@Icerigger](#): > > I would get a $9,000 a year increase in pay because my employer would no longer shell that out for medical insurance. or they could just keep that extra $9k as profit . Or some of it. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2020, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/realistically-what-level-of-taxation-are-we-looking-at-if-bernie-wins-and-has-a-blue-congress/848624/29 "2020-02-29T18:41:53Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > We collected about 1.68 trillion last year. > The lowest estimate for medicare for all is 13.5 trillion over 10 years. > Urban Institute thinks its 34 trillion > No way a 4% surcharge pays for medicare for all > [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > As others have said, for someone at your income I think the only new tax you’d pay is the medicare for all tax. That is 7.5% tax on your employer and a 4% tax on the employee. The 7.5% on the employer should help. But 4% or 11.5% doesn’t really count as a tax if you ask Mitt Romney, so I see no reason for anyone to object to this. ---
**Author:** ![drivekiller](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cdc98d/32.png) [@drivekiller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drivekiller)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2020, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/realistically-what-level-of-taxation-are-we-looking-at-if-bernie-wins-and-has-a-blue-congress/848624/30 "2020-03-03T09:54:01Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > He adds a 4% medical surcharge for medicare for all. > > We collected about 1.68 trillion last year. > The lowest estimate for medicare for all is 13.5 trillion over 10 years. > Urban Institute thinks its 34 trillion > No way a 4% surcharge pays for medicare for all > > So either it won’t work as advertised or it will cost a lot more than advertised. And yet much of the civilized world manages to have affordable health care. What’s up with that? ---
**Author:** ![drivekiller](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cdc98d/32.png) [@drivekiller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drivekiller)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2020, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/realistically-what-level-of-taxation-are-we-looking-at-if-bernie-wins-and-has-a-blue-congress/848624/31 "2020-03-03T09:55:53Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I spent everything as soon as I got it, and he saved some of it and put it into an index fund. Now he’s got more than me. No fair! > > _:shrugs:_ > > Regards, > Shodan Shodan not making minimum wage I see. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2020, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/realistically-what-level-of-taxation-are-we-looking-at-if-bernie-wins-and-has-a-blue-congress/848624/32 "2020-03-03T12:36:32Z")
> [@drivekiller](#): > > And yet much of the civilized world manages to have affordable health care. What’s up with that? Who do you consider the civilized world? Mostly wealthy white nations AFAICT. Are others uncivilized? The point is it costs a ton of money and Bernie’s version of universal Healthcare which is more comprehensive than other civilized white nations health care systems, is extremely costly. A public option is probably a better idea for now. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2020, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/realistically-what-level-of-taxation-are-we-looking-at-if-bernie-wins-and-has-a-blue-congress/848624/33 "2020-03-03T13:18:40Z")
> [@drivekiller](#): > > Shodan not making minimum wage I see. Very few people in the US are - something like 4% of wage earners. And they don’t typically live in poor households, and don’t support themselves or anyone else. So if the idea is that people can’t invest because they are earning minimum wage, that’s false. Of course Bernie wants to raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour, which the CBO says would cost about 1.3 million jobs, so that would hurt their ability to invest. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2020, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/realistically-what-level-of-taxation-are-we-looking-at-if-bernie-wins-and-has-a-blue-congress/848624/34 "2020-03-03T13:25:59Z")
I have serious doubts that his plans will be able to be implemented at even close to the cost he is predicting. Serious question, has any major government program come in under budget or at the cost it was initially predicted to be? ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2020, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/realistically-what-level-of-taxation-are-we-looking-at-if-bernie-wins-and-has-a-blue-congress/848624/35 "2020-03-03T13:50:28Z")
> [@Sterling\_Archer](#): > > His plans call for keeping the lowered Trump-tax-rates up to the $200k tier (for singles, $400k for couples). This seems odd. My household is a far cry from $400k and I assure you we didn’t need that tax cut. I mean sure, I _like_ keeping more of my money, but I’m ok with putting my own money where my mouth is to actually pay for policy actions I support, rather than try to find someone else to pay for it. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2020, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/realistically-what-level-of-taxation-are-we-looking-at-if-bernie-wins-and-has-a-blue-congress/848624/36 "2020-03-03T14:00:55Z")
> [@OP](#): > > Not a thread about whether Bernie’s taxation plans are good or bad - just asking how much the math is likely to come out to Sorry. I must wear the LOLDIDNTREAD hat of shame. Re: financial transactions and capital gains, I recall when discussing the Yang plan that his proposed tax on financial transactions was supposed to raise about $78B/year, and taxing cap gains as ordinary income would raise $7B. I doubt they were both proposing the exact same thing so those numbers probably need some adjustment. As for what would actually get passed by BS + Blue Congress? I honestly don’t know. They could barely pass ACA. And I don’t expect a leftist sweep of Congress. ---
**Author:** ![Sterling\_Archer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Sterling\_Archer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterling_Archer)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2020, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/realistically-what-level-of-taxation-are-we-looking-at-if-bernie-wins-and-has-a-blue-congress/848624/37 "2020-03-03T14:43:42Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > This seems odd. My household is a far cry from $400k and I assure you we didn’t need that tax cut. > > I mean sure, I _like_ keeping more of my money, but I’m ok with putting my own money where my mouth is to actually pay for policy actions I support, rather than try to find someone else to pay for it. Keep in mind, the Trump tax cuts aren’t really a cut for middle class incomes. I believe the analysis showed with incomes of $100k-$150k there would be savings in the early years, but they’d work out to about the same after 5+ years. And it’s all built into the new huge standard deduction so if you were a home owner who gave a decent amount to charity and itemized in the past, you are seeing barely any tax savings now. If you rent and do not give to charity, then you got a huge tax cut. Makes little sense. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2020, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/realistically-what-level-of-taxation-are-we-looking-at-if-bernie-wins-and-has-a-blue-congress/848624/38 "2020-03-03T20:12:44Z")
I for one would be perfectly happy with a tax increase, as long as it was coupled with corresponding spending cuts. Neither party is suggesting that. The GOP wants to cut taxes. The Dems want to increase taxes, and spend it all, plus more. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Yankees\_1996\_Champs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Yankees\_1996\_Champs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yankees_1996_Champs)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/realistically-what-level-of-taxation-are-we-looking-at-if-bernie-wins-and-has-a-blue-congress/848624/39 "2020-03-04T00:14:43Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I for one would be perfectly happy with a tax increase, as long as it was coupled with corresponding spending cuts. > > **Neither party is suggesting that. The GOP wants to cut taxes. The Dems want to increase taxes, and spend it all, plus more.** > > Regards, > Shodan Exactly. Under Sanders, you will see a heavy level of high taxation under a President Sanders, it will kick in during 2023 and you will probably see a Speaker Scalise or Speaker Jordan. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/realistically-what-level-of-taxation-are-we-looking-at-if-bernie-wins-and-has-a-blue-congress/848624/40 "2020-03-04T00:39:20Z")
When Clinton ran in 92 I remember the GOP listed all his tax increases. One of them was the Ark dog tracks were open more days. They said that was a tax increase since it meant more money for the state. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/realistically-what-level-of-taxation-are-we-looking-at-if-bernie-wins-and-has-a-blue-congress/848624.md?page=1)