# Reality doesn't change because you don't want to hear it **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 26, 2010, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816 "2010-03-26T00:07:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/221 "2010-03-30T15:50:41Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I’m tired of talking to **Chimera** ’s PR agent fanboy. Can you please transfer me to Muzak? Thanks for making my bad joke point so clearly. Really, awfully thoughtful of you. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/222 "2010-03-30T15:54:49Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > You still don’t fucking get it do you wanker? Even after someone already corrected you. Soooooooo, you missed the part where I said that I’d multiquoted, accidentally cropped out a full post from you, which ended up attributing the other post to you? Really, all that happened was I went from being baffled by your about-face to realizing that, no, you really are a little lickspittle. I’m truly confused by what kind of point you think you’re scoring here. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/223 "2010-03-30T15:56:11Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > Thanks for making my bad joke point so clearly. Really, awfully thoughtful of you. Thanks. I aspire to do everything awfully. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/224 "2010-03-30T16:13:53Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I would, but I’d hate to miss your latest final post. And the one after that is sure to be a doozy. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/225 "2010-03-30T16:33:03Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > You’re wrong, obviously - Even though we often disagree on things I seriously thought your reading comprehension was much better than this. It does seem that you have some kind of Big company always bad and customer always victim mentality. Like almost all sweeping generalities, it’s wrong. > [@](#): > > **Chimera** later claimed that she could bend over backwards to fix the problem, but didn’t, because the customer flipped out when told the above. You’re inferring things that were never said, purposely at this point I guess. Chimera never said he could go back and do what he originally said he couldn’t do so there was no lie. In fact he reminded us that that was the the point of the thread title. He merely clarified that he could have and would have solved the problem had the customer remained at least rational enough to listen to the explanation. He states clearly in the OP and elaborates later that the problem could be solved. It also states clearly in the OP that He tried to explain over and through the screaming up until the customer became obscene. So, there was no brush off either. There’s just the acknowledgment of the reality that you can’t solve somebodies problem if they refuse to listen and participate in a two way conversation. You’re very clearly reading things into the posts that aren’t there, preferring to assume the negative. You’re not alone in doing that which has been what irritated me from the get go. > [@](#): > > The notion that **Chimera** couldn’t cancel the account is pretty self-evidently false - if she could cancel the one, she can cancel the other. She just didn’t want to, because the company couldn’t get the money for it from the credit card company. Here’s where your comprehension seems to be really fucked. He never said she couldn’t cancel an account ever. The only thing he said {and explained clearly} that he couldn’t cancel was the refund that had already gone through. It’s a separate credit card company that he has no say over. Once the refund is complete the cancellation of the original policy is complete. You cannot undo a completed refund by the CC company. That’s a simple reality , hence the thread title. That does not translate into the "problem can’t be solved " and **Chimera** never claimed that. Quite the opposite. [QUOTE] The company should [list=1][li]Apologize for their mistake [_]Cancel the account the customer did not want[_]Re-open the account the customer did want [/QUOTE][/li] Exactly what **Chimera** was willing and able to do. > [@](#): > > Make no attempt to recover the refund - not from the credit card company and certainly not from the customer.That’s what it means to say “the company should eat the loss”. The company made the mistake, therefore the company should suffer the loss. Not only should no attempt be made to get that money from the customer, it should not even have been mentioned. Whether or not the company is losing money is not of any concern to the customer. There is no legal or even moral and ethical reason for the company to absorb an unnecessary loss if the error can be corrected without that loss and at no cost to the customer. People, including people who work for companies, make mistakes and the right thing to do is for the mistake to be corrected and the customer fairly compensated and restored to the point before the mistake. {maybe something _slightly_ better} That’s exactly what **Chimera** described. Your suggestion is that the company not only correct their mistake but also be unnecessarily financially punished for even making one. It’s a really bad precedent to set not only for companies but ultimately for the consumer as well. > [@](#): > > No, it is not like that. > > It’s like, “I want you to drive my car to the happy place.” > > “OK, it will cost $15.” \*Customer hands over a twenty and gets five bucks in change. > > Two hours later, the customer meets with the driver at the happy place. \* > > Customer: “Where’s my car?” > > Driver: “I got lost and it took me an hour longer than I thought. Gimme the five bucks back.” > > Customer: “Fuck you, gimme my car.” > > Driver: "Well, I was going to be very helpful, but not if you take that attitude,’ > > Regards, > Shodan The difference being that mine actually fits with what **Chimera** wrote in the OP and yours doesn’t The customer was never told it would cost her more. She may have assumed that at the word sell, and became a screaming maniac right away. Had she been willing to listen rather keep screaming, she would have the problem resolved by now at no additional cost. You’re just making shit up to suit your preconceived idea rather than looking at what was actually written. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/226 "2010-03-30T16:34:03Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Thanks. I aspire to do everything awfully. Mission accomplished 😃 ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/227 "2010-03-30T16:47:37Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Soooooooo, you missed the part where I said that I’d multiquoted, accidentally cropped out a full post from you, which ended up attributing the other post to you? Really, all that happened was I went from being baffled by your about-face to realizing that, no, you really are a little lickspittle. I’m truly confused by what kind of point you think you’re scoring here. I did miss you admitting your mistake. Since I quoted directly from the post that was a mistake and your response didn’t mention your prior acknowledgment it read as if you had missed the mistake. My bad. I recant. You’re not a wanker ,for that specific reason. You’re a wanker because you’re a nasty little thread shitter that truly has no idea what he’s crapping all over and apparently doesn’t care as long as you get to insult people anonymously on a message board. I don’t care if that’s how you choose to entertain yourself and I value your opinion even less than that. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/228 "2010-03-30T17:12:20Z")
Isn’t **Shot from Guns** a girl. Whose (IMHO indisputable) hotness was the subject of debate not too long ago? ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/229 "2010-03-30T17:22:15Z")
> [@villa](#): > > Isn’t **Shot from Guns** a girl. Whose (IMHO indisputable) hotness was the subject of debate not too long ago? Quite. The she is a he and the he is a she. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/230 "2010-03-30T17:59:12Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > [Bolding Mine] > > You have mentioned this comprehension issue a few times in this thread but **Chimera** had pretty well invited people’s conjecture by omitting details in her OP. I don’t agree. There’s no good reason to assume the worst without additional information. That’s what some did about a subject they don’t seem to know anything about. Admittedly my perspective is different because of my experience in CS but I thought any fair minded person wouldn’t resort to assuming details not in evidence and then drawing negative conclusions. In fact several people stopped by to say that. I thought the OP spelled it out fairly clearly, with no need to infer anything. You’ll notice those who simply got the details dead wrong or suspected Chimera of lying. What unnessecary bullshit. > [@](#): > > A processing mistake by the company was an irritant but really nothing that warranted anger. But **Chimera’s** statement about selling a _another_ plan opened the possibility that maybe there was additional cost or time penalties imposed on the customer. I asked **Chimera** for a few simple clarifications that she finally got around to answering 3 days later. Noted. I have no idea what Chimera’s schedule is do you? How does a lack of information justify making up your own? {not that you did, but others} > [@](#): > > Not providing information pretty well fueled the pile on. Again I don’t agree. Why should Chimera or anyone feel compelled to defend themselves against those who seem eager to make negative assumptions. You were smart enough to not assume the worst and ask for details. Not getting any answers means you don’t know. It doesn’t mean assume the worst now. > [@](#): > > If I were to proudly announce in an OP that I beat up a guy half my size and then left the thread to itself, it would be filled with pile on comments about me. > > It would continue when I came back in to the thread and talked about how I’m a tough guy and know how to beat up people that deserve it and he deserved it. Continue why? Because nobody knows if he deserved it. > > Then three days later I make a statement that I beat the guy up because he was attacking orphans holding puppies. > > So I did the right thing but by the time the full story is told I end up looking like a jerk for not telling the story right in the first place. Although I get your point I don’t think the analogy works. As I said, I understood the OP and thought it was a fairly clear venting frustration style post. I thought it was clearly written ,even with minimum details, to express that this customer didn’t just get angry, but became an incoherent screaming maniac. If you posted some guy half your size was screaming obscenities at you and you tried to talk him down but finally just walked away, would you expect a pile on about what an asshole you were and how badly you handled it. > [@](#): > > I don’t know how you can read the OP, make an assumption that “selling another plan” didn’t possibly cost the customer more time and money, read further into the thread and see others ask questions about that, and then come to the conclusion that thread participants had reading comprehension problems. Then I’ll explain. It’s clear in the OP that the plan she \*wanted \* was canceled and \*\*refunded \*\*, which means money back to her. It’s also a fairly obvious deduction that canceling the plan she wanted canceled will also result in money back to her. If, and it’s up to her, she still wants the plan that was mistakenly canceled the way to get it is to buy it back, with the money that was accidentally refunded. IOW, she gets the plan she wants back and gets the other plan canceled at no cost to her. I understand how these things can get complicated with prorating and all so I did not automatically assume there would be no cost to her. I took the OP to say that they never even got to that discussion because at the sound of the “can’t and sell” she launched the maniac salvo and didn’t turn back. I also noted that \*\*Chimera \*\* said, "I have the authority " so I assumed any disparities could be ironed out. That was later verified. Is it the same plan, and will it cost extra ,are perfectly legitimate questions, but there was absolutely no reason for anyone to assume the negative{s} as true. Such as “you want to charge her more, or sell her something else” Nobody ever said that. “You refused to solve her problem and later admitted you could if you wanted to” That never happened. “You told her the problem couldn’t be fixed so of course she’s pissed” That never happened either. That’s the reading comprehension thing I keep mentioning. How and why would we assume things not evident in the OP and restate them as if they were true and something the OP actually said? Why would people be so seemingly eager to believe the negative that isn’t there and join in the pile on? I don’t think the OP has any obligation to defend themselves against that kind of bullshit. I hope I’ve explained that clearly. I’ll also note that Chimera never said anger wasn’t justified. every decent CS rep has dealt with angry customers and learned not to take it personal. In fact he noted in the OP that he tried to explain over and through the screaming, which is the correct thing to do. You give the angry customer a chance to vent a little while patiently trying to calm them down and assure them you can and will solve the problem. If they refuse to listen and escalate into abuse rather than just vented anger and frustration you have to cut it off. That’s exactly what is described in the OP and later expanded on in more detail. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/231 "2010-03-30T18:00:32Z")
> [@villa](#): > > Isn’t **Shot from Guns** a girl. Whose (IMHO indisputable) hotness was the subject of debate not too long ago? Soooooo girls can’t wank? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/232 "2010-03-30T18:01:47Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > Soooooo girls can’t wank? 😕 No, but girls can’t be **he** ’s. Without expensive and painful surgery, that is… [QUOTE=cosmodan] you’re a nasty little thread shitter that truly has no idea what he’s crapping all over [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/233 "2010-03-30T18:29:50Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > I did miss you admitting your mistake. Because I’m merely abrasive and not a threadshitter, I’ll decline to make an issue of the irony of you being the one with reading-comprehension problems. 😃 > [@](#): > > You’re a wanker because you’re a nasty little thread shitter that truly has no idea what he’s crapping all over and apparently doesn’t care as long as you get to insult people anonymously on a message board. I don’t care if that’s how you choose to entertain yourself and I value your opinion even less than that. Apparently your sole definition of threadshitting is someone disagreeing with you. > [@villa](#): > > Isn’t **Shot from Guns** a girl. Whose (IMHO indisputable) hotness was the subject of debate not too long ago? A woman, yes. > [@cosmosdan](#): > > There’s no good reason to assume the worst without additional information. That’s what some did about a subject they don’t seem to know anything about. I didn’t assume the worst–I took the OP at his word, and considered it to be pretty damning when he refused to answer questions that were asked repeatedly when the answers could have cast him in a better light. The reason I think you’re a moron is that your sole criterion for who is a threadshitting-pileon appears to be that they assessed the same post you did and came to a different conclusion. Plenty of us have worked in service-industry or specifically customer-service jobs, but you’re blatantly asserting that if we disagree with you, then it \*must \*be because we just have no idea what we’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/234 "2010-03-30T18:43:10Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > A woman, yes. Apologies. My intent wasn’t to use girl in a derogatory sense, but I should have said woman. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/235 "2010-03-30T18:47:19Z")
> [@villa](#): > > Apologies. My intent wasn’t to use girl in a derogatory sense, but I should have said woman. Yup, I figured no ill intent, which is why I generally don’t make a stink about it, but instead just correct as sort of an aside. 😃 OH WAIT I’M SUPPOSED TO BE A THREADSHITTING TROLL COME BACK HERE SO I CAN HARANGUE YOU ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/236 "2010-03-30T18:49:30Z")
OK, harangue away. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/237 "2010-03-30T19:03:20Z")
Man, you’d think people in the Pit would have thicker skin. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/238 "2010-03-30T19:06:34Z")
This thread is reminding me of a story about a stoopid friend of mine. She has a job in a supermarket and they ask her to work on Christmas Day. She requested that they pay her time and a half. Her boos told her that they couldn’t pay her time and half per se, but that they would pay her for 12 hours even though they were only open of 8 hours that day. She flew off the handle at her boss and quit. Her boss gladly accepted the resignation. I think it was the next day when the light bulb went off and she realized what she had done. ---
**Author:** ![jonesj2205](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecc23a/32.png) [@jonesj2205](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jonesj2205)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/239 "2010-03-30T19:35:56Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > She has a job in a supermarket and they ask her to work on Christmas Day. She requested that they pay her time and a half. Her boos told her that they couldn’t pay her time and half per se, but that they would pay her for 12 hours even though they were only open of 8 hours that day. Are you sure her boss didn’t offer to sell her 12 hours? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/240 "2010-03-30T19:49:38Z")
Just had a co-worker asked to work some overtime and fly off the handle demanding to know what he got out of it. (That would be the 50% more pay for the time thing) He got so bent out of shape at just being asked that he ended up going home for the day and taking a hit on disciplinary points for attendance. What a dumbass. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816.md?page=13)