# Reality doesn't change because you don't want to hear it **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 26, 2010, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816 "2010-03-26T00:07:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/301 "2010-04-01T03:06:05Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Perfectly acceptable, asshole. 😃 Surprisingly dirty talk with a smiley face is a little arousing. > [@](#): > > That’s where we’re going to have to agree to disagree, then. There’s nothing you can say that will ever convince me that it wasn’t an incredibly poor way of handling the problem (what kind of retarded tyro would pull something like that?), and there’s nothing I can say that will convince you that there’s a good chance that a blowup with a clearly immature, entitled, and irrational customer wouldn’t have happened anyway. I agree we can agree o disagree on the thing we don’t agree on. Often after I have some incident with a customer I’ll replay the conversation and wonder what I might have done or said differently to avoid the animosity. I remember a customer blowing up at me on the phone because of a word I used and yelling at me. I tried to remain polite and continue to explain to her and she said “Don;t you be rude to me and talk to me as if I’m a child” to which I responded, “You’re the only one in this conversation who has been yelling” I understand and have patience for confusion, frustration, and some venting of anger. I’ve lost a lot of patience for uncalled for belligerence and childish adults who can’t control themselves. If someone wants to help you, is willing to help you, is able to help you and you simply are to ape shit crazy out of control to hear it then you don’t deserve any help until you fucking get a grip, regardless of the mistake. > [@](#): > > I think you will find you are dead fucking wrong, my dear. One of my many hats is doing the purchasing for my office, so I know these things. > > [From the FTC](http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/business/alerts/alt065.shtm): This really surprised me until I clicked the link. This applies directly to and possibly only to office supplies. I’d guess it’s in response to office supply scams it is addressing. Can you show me where it applies to goods in general. The reason being is that IMO it just doesn’t make sense to hold companies in general to that kind of standard. Someone buys a thousand dollar TV from Amazon or some other vendor. They send the 700 dollar one by mistake. So the customer gets to keep the 700 dollar one and still insist on them sending the 1000 dollar one? That’s really beating the crap out of company for a simple mistake. > [@](#): > > Now, I don’t know how this applies to _refunds_. But I \*do \*know that’s how it works with goods and services. I’ll have to see more to believe it applies to all goods and services. It may, but it really doesn’t make sense. > [@](#): > > And gentlemen of the SDMB now-a-bed > Shall think themselves accurs’d they were not here, > And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks > That fought with us upon the “Reality doesn’t change because you don’t want to hear it” thread. Is this “to the tune of” or some other reference. > [@](#): > > All \*\*\*I \*\*\*got out of that was that you should kill your uncle so you can fuck your half-sister. Maybe I should have paid better attention. My half sister was my date, but she never got quite drunk enough. > [@](#): > > Nope. KOMPRESSOR. > > TALL UND TAN UND YOUNG UND LOFFLY > THE GIRL FROM IPANEMA GOES WALKING > AND WHEN SHE PASSES > EACH ONE SHE PASSES GOES, > **“_AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH_”** Short and fat and kinda lumpy The boy from Ipanema is dumpy and when he passes each girl he passes goes eewwwwwwwww ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/302 "2010-04-01T03:14:57Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > Short and fat and kinda lumpy > The boy from Ipanema is dumpy > and when he passes each girl he passes goes > eewwwwwwwww I know I gave you some shit upthread, but man, this is _good._ ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/303 "2010-04-01T09:52:46Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > I know I gave you some shit upthread, but man, this is _good._ 😃 As I was correctly reminded. It’s the Pit. Shit happens ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/304 "2010-04-01T11:33:54Z")
> [@CrazyCatLady](#): > > As someone who has done a lot of in-person customer service, I think the call in the OP was handled poorly on both ends. > > A lot of customer service is having some empathy for the mental state people are in by the time you get to them. Someone who has suffered some screw up that was the company’s fault is liable to be cranky, and justifiably so. Someone who has waded through the field of bullshit that often is getting bumped to a higher-level service agent is liable to be cranky, and justifiably so. Someone who has suffered a company screw up at the company’s hands and then waded through the field of bullshit that often is getting bumped to a higher-level agent is more than double cranky, because that sort of thing tends to have a multiplier effect rather than a cumulative one. People in that state tend to hear the first half of the first sentence you speak to them, and base the rest of the interaction on that. They just do. > > If that first half includes the words can’t, won’t, or impossible or describes what kind of pain in the ass the fix is going to be, that multiplier effect goes exponential, and it’s very, very likely they’re going to hit the end of the rope and get ugly. Which, of course, is good for no one. > > That is why you do NOT further antagonize people in such a situation who are still being civil by leading off with what you can’t or won’t do for them. You lead off with “I am really sorry you’re having this problem,” and follow up with “It looks like what has happened is…” or “Okay, I think we can fix this by…” or “I know who we need to talk to to get this fixed for you.” Once you’ve done that, you can usually go on to explain why the fix has to be a bit of a process with very little fuss. Not always, there will always be the odd handful who are going to go off anyway, but the vast majority of the time people are willing to be civil if they feel like you understand their position and are sorry for the mistake and you’re actually trying to help them. They’re still not _happy_ about the situation, of course, but they’re immeasurably less pissy. > > The woman in the OP behaved unconscionably, yes. But I understand her losing it. If a company had screwed something up, and you’ve had to sit through the automated phone system and sit on what I refer to as “perma-hold” to get to the Tier 1 rep, and give your name and account number three times and explain the issue only to be told there’s nothing they can do, please hold for a supervisor, sit on hold some more, and when you finally get to speak to the supervisor you have to give your name and account number again and tell the whole story again…unless you’re Mother Teresa, you’re going to be tired and annoyed and frustrated and altogether less equipped to deal with any further setbacks reasonably. > > God knows when we missed the last possible connection home the other day because our initial flight was delayed by three hours, I probably would have bludgeoned someone if I got any whiff of obstructionism from the airline customer service people. I’d been sitting in an airport terminal for 4 hours, stuffed in a flying sardine can for 11 hours, herded through various chutes like cattle, and was facing a night in a strange city with no damn clean clothes and some massive jet lag. I was in no goddamn mood to hear about their policies or what they couldn’t do for me. I wanted to hear about what they could and would do for me to make things right after their screw up had disrupted my life. If the agent had handled it the way the OP handled this call, by saying “I can’t get you home tonight,” things would have become very ugly very quickly. This is reasonable. We don’t really know how much of a hassle she had gone through to get to the OP but we can probably assume she had gone through some and had to go through tier 1. Often you get an idea of where your customers at by the tone of their voice. If you hear the tension and frustration then leading with a positive is always a good idea. Hell, even if you don’t it’s a good idea. "I can fix this for you. I can get you the policy you want and cancel the other one. " As you said, and Chimera already noted up thread, “Not Always” This kind of out of control customer who continues to scream and escalates to obscenities even as you’re trying to explain that you can fix it is just rare ,period. I can agree that leading with a negative wasn’t prudent. I can’t undue the cancellation, {and then the offer to sell} But I can sell you another policy,… even though both things were true and the selling was necessary to get her back to where she wanted to be. I still find it hard to have sympathy for someone who loses control and becomes a screaming maniac while the person who can and will help them is trying to explain. There’s a line between angry, frustrated, needing to vent a little and her behavior and I got the impression she jumped over it quickly. We also don’t know for sure how the explanation went when she first lost it. I stick to simple positive phrases. “I can fix this, and I can get you what you want” but there’s a limit to how much screaming I’d take, and I’d tolerate very little obscenity. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/305 "2010-04-01T12:25:20Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Not exactly. > > The customer had two accounts, account A and account B. Account A is the one the customer wanted. It cost more than account B. Customer wanted account A, and did not want account B. The company canceled account A by mistake, and refunded the difference. > > Then the customer called back and said that she wanted account A, not account B. **Chimera** then said No, we can’t do that, because we already sent you the refund and we can’t get that money back. You have to open account C, which costs more than account A. Then the customer flipped out, because she did not want to buy a new account that cost more than what she was paying - she wanted account A. > > The various mistakes involved were [list=A][li]The company fucked up by canceling the wrong account [_] **Chimera** should not have told her that the company could not cancel account B - if they canceled account A, they could cancel account B[_] **Chimera** should not have said it was “impossible” to undo the cancellation, because it was not impossible - it just would have cost the company money because they would have had to provide an account with the same service level and features as account B at the price of account A. [\*]The customer should not have started screaming.[/list][/li] > I worked as credit manager for a small department store in my youth. How I handled problems like this is something like the following: > > "You are absolutely correct - we canceled the wrong account. I apologize. > > My name is **Shodan** , and I am now responsible for fixing your problem. My direct number is 555-1234. If you have problems with how we are going to fix your issue, you call me directly. Don’t go thru the phone tree, call me directly. OK? > > Here’s how I propose to fix your problem - I will open you up a new account. It will cost you exactly what you are now paying for account A - it will not cost you a penny more. If worse comes to worse and the price of the account is higher than you are now paying, I will make sure that we add a credit to your new account so that your first bill will be reduced by that amount. It will not cost you a penny. OK? The new account will offer you the same services as account A, or more. OK? > > I will have an update for you by close of business today. Would you prefer a letter, or shall I call you? > > Again, I apologize for our mistake." > > You don’t make the customer jump thru hoops, you don’t tell them they cannot have what they want, and you do not tell them they have to pay for your mistakes. > > I did this kind of thing once, and I got a commendation for it, because the woman I did it for spent a lot of money in our store. And she mentioned me by name to the owner. > > Regards, > Shodan I’m going to suggest that before you “explain” to other posters you check your details because either this is a moronic mistake or you are now intentionally distorting **Chimera** ’s posts Where does it say account A cost more than account B? Maybe it does but I looked back through Chimera’s posts and didn’t see it. If it doesn’t say this then why did you make this up? And no the company did not refund the difference between A and B. The company refunded the balance of account A period. And yes that was a mistake. Chimera never told the customer or account C would cost more than A. You just made that up too. Chimera **never** told her he could not cancel account B. This is the kind of pulled out of the air bullshit that has pissed me off in this thread. What the fuck is wrong with your reading comprehension and where the fuck does this made up crap come from that you post it as if the OP actually said this. And yes, it is impossible to un do the cancellation after the refund had already gone through. It’s not impossible to solve the problem and get her back to where she wanted to be at no cost to her and \*\*Chimera \*\*has explained that. and this shit > [@](#): > > it was not impossible - it just would have cost the company money because they would have had to provide an account with the same service level and features as account B at the price of account A is also made up. Nobody said anything like that **ever.** you’re just making shit up and then repeating it to others as if it were true. WTF man. That’s an excellent customer service story. Great work. what you have failed to comprehend is that this > [@](#): > > Here’s how I propose to fix your problem - I will open you up a new account. It will cost you exactly what you are now paying for account A - it will not cost you a penny more. If worse comes to worse and the price of the account is higher than you are now paying, I will make sure that we add a credit to your new account so that your first bill will be reduced by that amount. It will not cost you a penny. OK? The new account will offer you the same services as account A, or more. OK? is what **Chimera** proposed as a solution or would have proposed if the lady hadn’t become a screaming lunatic. Interesting that you seemed to know it was impossible to reopen the canceled account and phrased it as opening a \*\*new account \*\* which is part of what set Chimera’s customer off. What if the customer in your story had become a screaming lunatic at the words “new account” You’re not listening, I don’t want a NEW ACCOUNT I want the one I had. Uncancel it right now or get me someone who can. Well ma’am if you’ll just let me explain the new account won’t cost… YOU"RE NOT DOING WHAT I WANT!! I JUST TOLD YOU I DON"T WANT A NEW ACCOUNT!! well if it does cost more I’ll… COST MORE!! NOW YOU EXPECT IT TO COST ME MORE! I WANT YOUR SUPERVISOR I know you don’t get this and there’s some reason in your mind that you’re right and all that shit you made up is right as well. More’s the pity. I just seriously don’t understand the made up crap. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/306 "2010-04-01T12:35:40Z")
By the way Do the titles of the SD forums look different to anyone? On my PC it looks as if someone had hacked in and changed the titles of the forums as a joke, although the threads themselves are normal. 😕 😕 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/307 "2010-04-01T12:38:19Z")
It’s April Fools Day. See ATMB. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/308 "2010-04-01T12:42:42Z")
> [@Cicero](#): > > It’s April Fools Day. See ATMB. Well DUUUUHHHHH!!! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/309 "2010-04-01T13:01:12Z")
_snork_ ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/310 "2010-04-01T13:02:44Z")
And while I am an administrator, I’m going to kick arse here. You may address me as “Your temporary majesty”. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/311 "2010-04-01T13:11:03Z")
All Accounts will be cancelled and their remaining balance refunded to my account. Fuck you and have a nice day. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/312 "2010-04-01T13:13:53Z")
That’s more like it. Go get her… ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/313 "2010-04-01T13:14:50Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > okay I’ll take that to mean you wouldn’t expect it for free, which means , with a discount, you would pay for it. I never said it should be free. If offered a discount, I would consider paying for it. If not offered a discount, I would likely have them pick up the item, and purchase it elsewhere, even if that meant paying more for it (within reason). > [@cosmosdan](#): > > Let’s assume you won;t have to take time off work to make a phone call. That’s not the way it works for me, though. I have no set work hours. I can bill whenever I choose. So there are two statuses for me - work and not work. I choose to spend my non-work time doing things that I enjoy. I do not enjoy cleaning up screw ups made by companies with whom I do business. Therefore it is rational for me to consider time spent doing that on a par with time spent doing other “non-enjoyment” things, and the best way I have to put a value on that is the value placed on my work. I’ll be generous, though. The company should only reimburse me my pay rate, not my billing rate. > [@cosmosdan](#): > > I think some compensation is good customer service. Often in extended warranties you get free X months or a discounted fee. My point was that some were arguing she should get the plan for free. I don’t agree and I don’t think it works that way in most commerce. Oddly enough, not me. Take that up with them. I have never suggested it should be automatically free in this situation. ---
**Author:** ![MTCicero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@MTCicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MTCicero)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/314 "2010-04-01T13:36:23Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > By the way > Do the titles of the SD forums look different to anyone? On my PC it looks as if someone had hacked in and changed the titles of the forums as a joke, although the threads themselves are normal. 😕 😕 😕 It’s April Fools Day, fuckwit. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/315 "2010-04-01T13:38:38Z")
Please note that I have no connection with MTCicero. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/316 "2010-04-01T13:41:51Z")
Well, in this forum and on this day, that dipshit is correct. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/317 "2010-04-01T13:46:12Z")
> [@villa](#): > > Oddly enough, not me. Take that up with them. I have never suggested it should be automatically free in this situation. I knew that. I just wanted someone else , especially someone who didn’t agree on other points, to agree that free was to much to expect. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/318 "2010-04-01T14:19:26Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > I’m going to suggest that before you “explain” to other posters you check your details because either this is a moronic mistake or you are now intentionally distorting **Chimera** ’s posts No, you’re just stupid and blaming it on everyone else. I suspect it is deliberate, so going back and reposting everything would do no good. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/319 "2010-04-01T14:34:33Z")
Look, anyone with the time and inclination can go back and re-read **Chimera** ’s posts and **cosmosdan** ’s excellent collection of essays about them. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/320 "2010-04-01T14:39:15Z")
> [@Cicero](#): > > Please note that I have no connection with MTCicero. Of course not. You’re Cicero. He’s the empty Cicero. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816.md?page=17)