# Reality doesn't change because you don't want to hear it **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 26, 2010, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816 "2010-03-26T00:07:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/321 "2010-04-01T15:08:45Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No, you’re just stupid and blaming it on everyone else. I suspect it is deliberate, so going back and reposting everything would do no good. > > Regards, > Shodan I am with Cosmo (kramer?) on this one. You guys either can’t read for shit, are making things up, can’t admit you werent quite right, or are just stirring shit up for the hell of it. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/322 "2010-04-01T15:26:05Z")
It wouldn’t be the dope if people didn’t do such things. This is the board where someone declared that Faramir was every bit as evil as Sauron based on the way he ‘tortured’ Gollum in the Lord of the Rings movies. Where giving a lollipop to a child would result in recreational outrage posts about the dangers of sugar, of usurping the parent’s authority, or making the child fat. Where on any given day, you could find at least 10 people who would happily compare you to Adolf Hitler over the very idea that you would be stupid enough to say “Good Morning” to someone you didn’t know. And at least two people who would say it’s your own damned fault for being stupid enough to post something about saying “Good Morning” to a complete stranger. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/323 "2010-04-01T16:23:02Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > This really surprised me until I clicked the link. This applies directly to and possibly only to office supplies. I’d guess it’s in response to office supply scams it is addressing. Can you show me where it applies to goods in general. Sure, here’s [a page on unordered merchandise](http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/products/pro15.shtm) from the FCC’s consumer pages: > [@](#): > > Q. Am I obligated to return or pay for merchandise I never ordered? > > A. No. If you receive merchandise that you didn’t order, you have a legal right to keep it as a free gift. > [@](#): > > Someone buys a thousand dollar TV from Amazon or some other vendor. They send the 700 dollar one by mistake. So the customer gets to keep the 700 dollar one and still insist on them sending the 1000 dollar one? That’s really beating the crap out of company for a simple mistake. Then the merchant needs to get better inventory controls. There’s nothing that says the customer can’t send the item back, if they think it was an honest mistake–especially if the vendor arranges for the return shipping. And if you ever want to do business with that vendor again, you probably want to at least make an effort to return it. However, there’s no way to tell the intent of the shipper, so to protect the consumer, the onus of responsibility is left firmly on the shoulders of the person who instigated the transaction. > [@](#): > > Is this “to the tune of” > or some other reference. It’s [the St. Crispin’s Day speech](http://www.chronique.com/Library/Knights/crispen.htm)from _Henry V_. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/324 "2010-04-01T16:27:12Z")
Apropos of nothing, I youtubed Kompressor’s Girl From Ipanema late last night and freaked myself right out. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/325 "2010-04-01T16:47:28Z")
If **Shodan’s** summary is incorrect – specifically the fact that the cancelled plan apparently cost more than the uncancelled plan – then my question to **Chimera** stands, and I don’t think **cosmosdan’s** response to **SkeptiJess** in #299 is really responsive. Assuming that the plans cost the same (pending clarification from **Chimera** ), tell me which of the following steps goes astray: [ul] [li]Customer has two plans, both of which she’s paid for (right?) – call it $100 for each plan, or $200 total[/li][li]Customer wants to keep Plan A and cancel Plan B[/li][li]Company mistakenly cancels Plan A instead, refunding $100 to Customer[/li][li]Now Customer has $100 (cancellation of Plan A) and Company has $100 (payment for Plan B)[/li][li]Customer realizes Company’s mistake and asks that Plan B be cancelled instead of Plan A[/li][li]Company already has $100 of Customer’s money[/li][li]Company tells Customer that because the refund has already been processed, it is impossible to “uncancel” Plan A[/li][li]Company tells Customer that it will be necessary for her to purchase Plan A from them all over again[/li][/ul] Why is it necessary for Customer to pay anything more to “buy” a new plan? She’s already paid, even if the payment has been credited to Plan B instead of Plan A. (If your answer is that Customer would receive a second refund upon cancellation of Plan B, you’re begging the question.) Now, it might be that this is wrong from the get-go – if Customer had two plans but had only paid for one, then I can see the need to get another $100 from her. But according to **cosmosdan’s** vigorous defense of **Chimera** , Customer had paid for both plans (see my quote of **cosmosdan** in Post #250). And, of course, if **Shodan** is correct that the only refund Customer received was the difference between Plan B and the costlier Plan A, than that’s a different matter entirely. Which is it? ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/326 "2010-04-01T17:08:14Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > Why is it necessary for Customer to pay anything more to “buy” a new plan? She’s already paid, even if the payment has been credited to Plan B instead of Plan A. (If your answer is that Customer would receive a second refund upon cancellation of Plan B, you’re begging the question.) Good fucking grief. How complicated is this? MAYBE the software DOESNT ALLOW you to transfer funds for B to A. A has been cancelled, and that cant be corrected cause the money is already gone. So, she has to rebuy A. And maybe B’s money can’t be transfered to A due to very good procedural or software, or maybe even legal reasons, that just has to be cancelled and the refund for B credited to her credit card. Yeah, its a shell game (and IMO a distinction without a difference), but Goddamn, in the end she would got what she had actually wanted if she would have shut the fuck up and listened. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/327 "2010-04-01T17:25:37Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Good fucking grief. > > How complicated is this? > > MAYBE the software DOESNT ALLOW you to transfer funds for B to A. A has been cancelled, and that cant be corrected cause the money is already gone. So, she has to rebuy A. And maybe B’s money can’t be transfered to A due to very good procedural or software, or maybe even legal reasons, that just has to be cancelled and the refund for B credited to her credit card. > > Yeah, its a shell game (and IMO a distinction without a difference), but Goddamn, in the end she would got what she had actually wanted if she would have shut the fuck up and listened. Do you not understand why this woman would be perturbed if, thanks to the company’s mistake, she was told she would have to purchase another plan – with all of the inconvenience that entails, including giving her credit card information – when she had already paid them for two plans and only been refunded for one? In effect, the company is telling her, “The only way to fix this is to put you right back where you were before, with two payments for two plans. But don’t worry, because we promise we’ll cancel the right one this time around!” That’s a bullshit way to handle the situation. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/328 "2010-04-01T17:41:26Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > That’s a bullshit way to handle the situation. What you mean the part where she wouldnt STFU so somebody could ACTUALLY FIX the problem? Anger is never a good reason to shoot YOURSELF in the ass. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f07891/32.png) [@Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Plastic_Ninja)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/329 "2010-04-01T18:04:37Z")
So in my phone customer service job (a job I swore I’d never do again, sigh) I take a fierce pride in handling screamers well. Give me all your screamers, your ranters, your unreasonable assholes who have been Done Wrong by the company. I will find a way to ease their troubled minds 9 times out of 10. Yesterday I had the distinct pleasure of handling a fellow who had berated every single rep who came before me. Lo, their bones did litter the very account notes replicating every personal insult and instance of profanity. When I saw paragraphs of transcript I knew this was going to be a fun one… and I knew how to handle it. The problem was not too complex: a long-term customer had run into a glitch in the system. Fixing the glitch started up another glitch. It wasn’t really the fault of any particular rep; I suppose you could call it a fault of the programmer or QA for leaving a bug in the procedure, but never mind. The caller hadn’t really done anything wrong (apart from being a colossal jerk, which he admitted) but the bank was holding his funds for the transactions and they had not only failed to process, they’d locked that part of his account. I checked his account history. He’d performed these paid services over thirty times – the average for most accounts is maybe three. He’d used our service for five years. I listened to his rant, skimming over the other notes, and advised him that considering the inconvenience, the situation, the fact that he hadn’t done anything wrong, and the fact that he’d been an incredibly longstanding and devoted customer, I would be happy to comp both the services. Additionally, I would not disconnect with him until all the services he requested were complete. Was it our fault? Sort of. Was it his? No. Do I like rewarding bad behavior? No, but what was the cost to our company for helping him? Minimal. When I explained I was doing this, his entire mood changed. He ended up purchasing more services while the first two were processing. Net bonus? You betcha. I also gave him my personal contact info so he could contact me as “someone who knows what they’re doing” any time he had another problem. I do that a lot – really to every person I talk to – and my inbox stays at perhaps four personal requests a week after over two years of flinging my email around willy-nilly. My personal philosophy of service: there is (almost) always a way to make it happen. People usually know when they’re making unreasonable requests, and I have been known to shut those down with a flat “no, we won’t do that, but what we CAN do…” or even just a flat “No.” I’ve been called a bitch and far worse, but anybody who contacts me and wants service will get it. Anyone who just wants to scream is welcome to do so with the caveat that I will be playing Nethack and not paying much attention. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/330 "2010-04-01T18:05:09Z")
**billfish678:** Look, anger is never the most productive response in these situations. All I’m saying is that – as described – it’s understandable if she’s perturbed and frustrated by this point, and I can see why the proposed “fix” to the problem might have sounded a little loopy to her…especially if she had to navigate through a labyrinth of automated responses to even speak to an actual human being in the first place, and isn’t too thrilled about the prospect of having to do it all over again if they screw up the refund the second time around. Moreover, **Chimera** doubtless has far more experience in these situations than she does, and the onus is on him (as, y’know, a customer service representative) to understand why she might be frustrated at this point and to avoid dealing with the situation in a way that is likely to frustrate her further. If that means choosing words other than “sell,” then so be it. If it means being a little more outwardly sympathetic to the inconvenience she’s experiencing in having to rectify a mistake of the company’s, then that works as well. Hell, if it means _anything_ other than not giving a shit that this woman now has to jump through what seem to her to be completely illogical hoops just to get back to the place where she started, then I don’t see what’s so unreasonable about that. I know that customer service reps have a thoroughly shitty job, but sometimes customers have actual and legitimate issues that they are actually and legitimately frustrated by, and it should be the job of the customer service rep, at the very least, to avoid unnecessarily exacerbating that frustration. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/331 "2010-04-01T18:38:45Z")
And so you, like others, are prescient about which exact word or tone is likely to set off Customer X and are able to avoid it in time? Lucky you. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/332 "2010-04-01T18:44:39Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > **billfish678:** > > I know that customer service reps have a thoroughly shitty job, Hey, hey, HEY!! Not always. With about 8 years experience under your belt, and throw in sales/commission, we are actually talking a pretty cushy job, indeed! The rest of your post, point taken. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/333 "2010-04-01T18:55:36Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > And so you, like others, are prescient about which exact word or tone is likely to set off Customer X and are able to avoid it in time? Lucky you. In some countries, this is called “sorcery” and subject to the severest of punishment. In others, it’s called “common sense” and applied sporadically. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/334 "2010-04-01T18:59:41Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > And so you, like others, are prescient about which exact word or tone is likely to set off Customer X and are able to avoid it in time? Lucky you. No, but YOU, as the professional in this here service transaction, should be more than equipped to know that “ma’am, you’re going to need to buy a whole new plan with us so we can put you right back where you started,” might not be the best way to frame the fix that you’re offering. If you actually think that “okay, pay twice for two plans again and this time I promise we’ll cancel the right one” isn’t likely to increase the customer’s frustration, then you’re more tone deaf than I would have expected, seeing as how you deal with customers all the time and all. ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/335 "2010-04-01T19:13:05Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No, you’re just stupid and blaming it on everyone else. I suspect it is deliberate, so going back and reposting everything would do no good. > > Regards, > Shodan Bullshit. You have misrepresented Chimera every step of the way and got called on it. I suspect it is deliberate, so going away and posting nothing else would do some good. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/336 "2010-04-01T19:19:06Z")
I don’t see how **Shodan** is misrepresenting **Chimera**. **Shodan’s** understanding of the facts – that the customer was refunded the difference between the cost of Plan A and Plan B – _helps_ **Chimera** , if anything. ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/337 "2010-04-01T19:23:42Z")
> [@villa](#): > > I’m glad you put no value on your time. However, some of us do - I personally prefer not to spend my spare time rectifying the incompetence of companies with which I do business. > > As I said later in the post (oddly cut out) I’d expect a discount as a result. I value my time, of course I do. After all, time spent making a few phone calls is time I am not on the internet laughing at anal twits. You would expect a discount? I believe you on that, I really do. Mistakes can happen, inconveniences can occur, but by fuck they had better not happen to you or heads will roll. (Are you married? Its just I cant shake the mental image of some fat pompous muppet striding towards a customer service desk shouting, “follow me Martha, I know how to speak to ‘these’ people…”) ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/338 "2010-04-01T19:33:04Z")
**villa** is not asking for a discount for the initial mistake, but for the resulting inconvenience of purchasing a completely new plan in order to _rectify_ the mistake. There’s a big difference. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/339 "2010-04-01T20:12:02Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > I value my time, of course I do. After all, time spent making a few phone calls is time I am not on the internet laughing at anal twits. > > You would expect a discount? I believe you on that, I really do. Mistakes can happen, inconveniences can occur, but by fuck they had better not happen to you or heads will roll. > > (Are you married? Its just I cant shake the mental image of some fat pompous muppet striding towards a customer service desk shouting, “follow me Martha, I know how to speak to ‘these’ people…”) I’m divorced, thanks for asking. You may enjoy getting shat on by companies - I don’t. If I shit the bed in my business, the customer gets a discount. I don’t think I am expecting too much if when people to whom I am a customer shit the bed, I should get a discount. Terribly sorry if that makes me a fat, pompous muppet, old chap. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/340 "2010-04-01T20:16:33Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > Apropos of nothing, I youtubed Kompressor’s Girl From Ipanema late last night and freaked myself right out. KOMPRESSOR once offered to threaten my landlord for me. Good times. > [@VinylTurnip](#): > > In some countries, this is called “sorcery” and subject to the severest of punishment. In others, it’s called “common sense” and applied sporadically. I’m now picturing **Chimera** wandering about and testily demanding to prick people’s birthmarks with his pin. Seriously, **Chi** , if you can’t figure out ahead of time that telling a customer that you have to sell them something to fix the problem your company created is going to piss them off, even just a little bit, you need to find a new job. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816.md?page=18)