# Reality doesn't change because you don't want to hear it **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 26, 2010, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816 "2010-03-26T00:07:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/341 "2010-04-02T02:43:21Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No, you’re just stupid and blaming it on everyone else. I suspect it is deliberate, so going back and reposting everything would do no good. > > Regards, > Shodan Hey what a very clever dodge. I doubt anyone will see though it. Disagreeing on issues is one thing but such obvious misrepresentation of another Dopers posts is pretty dam shitty. Even in the pit. I see you’ve already been called on it by another poster. Your lame attempt at cover now only makes it seem deliberate. Congratulations on being such a disingenuous jackass. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/342 "2010-04-02T03:38:08Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > If **Shodan’s** summary is incorrect – specifically the fact that the cancelled plan apparently cost more than the uncancelled plan – then my question to **Chimera** stands, and I don’t think **cosmosdan’s** response to **SkeptiJess** in #299 is really responsive. I’m going to make the outlandish suggestion that you actually read **Chimera** ’s posts and decide for yourself if\*\* Shodan\*\* is accurately portraying what Chimera wrote. If you can’t see the clear and blatant misrepresentation I’ll be amazed. > [@](#): > > Assuming that the plans cost the same (pending clarification from **Chimera** ), tell me which of the following steps goes astray: There’s no reason to assume they cost the same nor does it matter. > [@](#): > > Why is it necessary for Customer to pay anything more to “buy” a new plan? She’s already paid, even if the payment has been credited to Plan B instead of Plan A. (If your answer is that Customer would receive a second refund upon cancellation of Plan B, you’re begging the question.) It was an extended warranty. Let’s make an educated guess that it’s on two different products and they don’t cost the same. Chimera mentioned a serial number. If you have a plan connected to device A with serial number and you have a different plan connected to device B with a different serial number it’s not usually as simple as using white out to change the device and serial number in plan B to now apply to device A. The system probably treats these two plans as two separate and different products. Chimera already said {you’ll see it when you read the posts instead of guessing based on others posts} that the solution was to sell her another plan to replace the one mistakenly canceled, then cancel the one she wanted canceled. He can adjust the cost so in the end she only has the plan she wants , and it hasn’t cost her any money. He was willing and able to do that from the get go but she was screaming irrationally and refused to listen to the solution. > [@](#): > > Now, it might be that this is wrong from the get-go – if Customer had two plans but had only paid for one, then I can see the need to get another $100 from her. But according to **cosmosdan’s** vigorous defense of **Chimera** , Customer had paid for both plans (see my quote of **cosmosdan** in Post #250). And, of course, if **Shodan** is correct that the only refund Customer received was the difference between Plan B and the costlier Plan A, than that’s a different matter entirely. Which is it? Does it really help you to get someone else to tell you which it is rather than just read the posts and see for yourself? Comon. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/343 "2010-04-02T03:44:53Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > I don’t see how **Shodan** is misrepresenting **Chimera**. **Shodan’s** understanding of the facts – that the customer was refunded the difference between the cost of Plan A and Plan B – _helps_ **Chimera** , if anything. WTF. What does that , even if it’s true, have to do with what Chimera wrote in comparison to what **Shodan** claimed was true? HAve you read **Chimera** ’s posts yet? Why are you rambling on without doing that? It’s a simple concept. When Shodan claims something to be factual that Chimera never wrote and never even heavily implied then it’s misrepresentation. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/344 "2010-04-02T03:50:16Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Sure, here’s [a page on unordered merchandise](http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/products/pro15.shtm) from the FCC’s consumer pages: > Then the merchant needs to get better inventory controls. There’s nothing that says the customer can’t send the item back, if they think it was an honest mistake–especially if the vendor arranges for the return shipping. And if you ever want to do business with that vendor again, you probably want to at least make an effort to return it. However, there’s no way to tell the intent of the shipper, so to protect the consumer, the onus of responsibility is left firmly on the shoulders of the person who instigated the transaction. shame on you. You neglected to quote this part > [@](#): > > Q. What should I do if the unordered merchandise I received was the result of an honest shipping error? > > A. Write the seller and offer to return the merchandise, provided the seller pays for postage and handling. Give the seller a specific and reasonable amount of time (say 30 days) to pick up the merchandise or arrange to have it returned at no expense to you. Tell the seller that you reserve the right to keep the merchandise or dispose of it after the specified time has passed. Isn’t an honest shipping error what we’re talking about? It doesn’t say, fuck them it was their mistake. > [@](#): > > It’s [the St. Crispin’s Day speech](http://www.chronique.com/Library/Knights/crispen.htm)from _Henry V_. Oh that’s hot!! ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/345 "2010-04-02T03:56:43Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > I value my time, of course I do. After all, time spent making a few phone calls is time I am not on the internet laughing at anal twits. > > You would expect a discount? I believe you on that, I really do. Mistakes can happen, inconveniences can occur, but by fuck they had better not happen to you or heads will roll. > > (Are you married? Its just I cant shake the mental image of some fat pompous muppet striding towards a customer service desk shouting, “follow me Martha, I know how to speak to ‘these’ people…”) For what it’s worth I agree that some reasonable compensation is good customer service. The key word is reasonable. If I have to replace a TV for someone because they got a bad one I might throw in a free HDMI cable with the replacement TV as a way of saying , “I’m sorry you had a problem and appreciate your business.” You’re right, life is sometimes inconvenient. Sometimes you get a bad product and that’s just life so don’t demand I pay for your time and gas because you live an hour away. I won’t. But I might do something to acknowledge you had a bit of a hassle and show I appreciate your business. ---
**Author:** ![MTCicero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@MTCicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MTCicero)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/346 "2010-04-02T04:01:52Z")
Fuck! Can’t **cosmosdan** just, like, post a video clip of him fellating **Chimera** , so we can be done with this thread? I mean, he so clearly wants to do it, so why not just put it on the record and be done with it? ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/347 "2010-04-02T10:06:14Z")
> [@MTCicero](#): > > Fuck! Can’t **cosmosdan** just, like, post a video clip of him fellating **Chimera** , so we can be done with this thread? I mean, he so clearly wants to do it, so why not just put it on the record and be done with it? I thought of that. But then I’d have to delete the the video I have of you licking my ass while I’m banging your mother. I’m far to sentimental to do that. I know you probably won’t get this but it isn’t just about defending Chimera because Chimera doesn’t need my help. It’s about the irritating group practice of gleefully jumping on someone to criticize them when you don’t even have the sense to read what they actually said and grasp it. It’s about making shit up and posting it as if someone actually said that. It pisses me off and I get to say so. As for being done with this thread. Who the fuck is stopping you dipshit? ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/348 "2010-04-02T10:13:51Z")
> [@Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](#): > > So in my phone customer service job (a job I swore I’d never do again, sigh) I take a fierce pride in handling screamers well. Give me all your screamers, your ranters, your unreasonable assholes who have been Done Wrong by the company. I will find a way to ease their troubled minds 9 times out of 10. > > Yesterday I had the distinct pleasure of handling a fellow who had berated every single rep who came before me. Lo, their bones did litter the very account notes replicating every personal insult and instance of profanity. When I saw paragraphs of transcript I knew this was going to be a fun one… and I knew how to handle it. The problem was not too complex: a long-term customer had run into a glitch in the system. Fixing the glitch started up another glitch. It wasn’t really the fault of any particular rep; I suppose you could call it a fault of the programmer or QA for leaving a bug in the procedure, but never mind. The caller hadn’t really done anything wrong (apart from being a colossal jerk, which he admitted) but the bank was holding his funds for the transactions and they had not only failed to process, they’d locked that part of his account. > > I checked his account history. He’d performed these paid services over thirty times – the average for most accounts is maybe three. He’d used our service for five years. I listened to his rant, skimming over the other notes, and advised him that considering the inconvenience, the situation, the fact that he hadn’t done anything wrong, and the fact that he’d been an incredibly longstanding and devoted customer, I would be happy to comp both the services. Additionally, I would not disconnect with him until all the services he requested were complete. > > Was it our fault? Sort of. Was it his? No. Do I like rewarding bad behavior? No, but what was the cost to our company for helping him? Minimal. When I explained I was doing this, his entire mood changed. He ended up purchasing more services while the first two were processing. Net bonus? You betcha. I also gave him my personal contact info so he could contact me as “someone who knows what they’re doing” any time he had another problem. I do that a lot – really to every person I talk to – and my inbox stays at perhaps four personal requests a week after over two years of flinging my email around willy-nilly. > > My personal philosophy of service: there is (almost) always a way to make it happen. People usually know when they’re making unreasonable requests, and I have been known to shut those down with a flat “no, we won’t do that, but what we CAN do…” or even just a flat “No.” I’ve been called a bitch and far worse, but anybody who contacts me and wants service will get it. Anyone who just wants to scream is welcome to do so with the caveat that I will be playing Nethack and not paying much attention. 😛 I admire your attitude and confidence. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/349 "2010-04-02T12:28:55Z")
> [@MTCicero](#): > > Fuck! Can’t **cosmosdan** just, like, post a video clip of him fellating **Chimera** , so we can be done with this thread? I’m skeptical… it’ll be hard to top the book. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/350 "2010-04-02T12:48:56Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I’m skeptical… it’ll be hard to top the book. I’ll have the paperback and audio version available soon. They will be at the Boarders on Obsession bookstores nationwide. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/351 "2010-04-02T14:24:04Z")
**cosmosdan:** > [@](#): > > Does it really help you to get someone else to tell you which it is rather than just read the posts and see for yourself? Comon. Fuck off, jackass. ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/352 "2010-04-02T17:21:01Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > Often you get an idea of where your customers at by the tone of their voice. If you hear the tension and frustration then leading with a positive is always a good idea. Hell, even if you don’t it’s a good idea. I think by the time you can actively hear the tension and frustration in someone’s voice, things are already very, very dicey. Many people will try to mask their negative feelings as long as they can, especially when dealing with strangers in a business setting, for the sake of not looking or feeling like an asshole. (The ones who won’t, by and large, start off abrasive from the get-go.) IME, the audibly tense but still civil stage lasts about a minute and a half without intervention. And that intervention is, often, much more difficult and involved (and less effective at smoothing them down) than it would have been in the earlier stages. It’s a lot like treating for shock in that respect. Early prevention is trivially easy–a simple acknowledgment that things are not going as they should through no fault of the customer’s, and an explanation of what’s going on goes a long, long way if you offer it before people start getting crabby. Treatment after problems become apparent is an absolute mess–no matter what you say or do, the customer is much more likely to leave mad and tell everyone they know what a PITA getting a foul-up fixed was. Once that bitch switch gets flipped, it tends to stay flipped. Letting things get to that point is bad for business, it’s bad for the customer, and it makes your day more unpleasant than it really needs to be. I personally am opposed to my day being more unpleasant than it really needs to be, so I treat every customer as though they’d had just about enough of this shit and explosion is imminent. It seems to work pretty well–I’ve only ever been screamed at by a customer once in 15 years, and that was some asshole trying to scam a free meal who was cursing and yelling because I brought his daughter exactly what she ordered. > [@](#): > > I still find it hard to have sympathy for someone who loses control and becomes a screaming maniac while the person who can and will help them is trying to explain. > There’s a line between angry, frustrated, needing to vent a little and her behavior and I got the impression she jumped over it quickly. As I said, her behavior was unconscionable. But as Chris Rock says, “I ain’t saying it’s right. I’m saying I understand.” Especially if, as indicated in the OP, his leadoff could be parsed as him saying that he can’t/won’t help her. I mean, “I can’t undo the refund, but I can sell you a new policy” does not immediately scream “I can fix this at no further cost or hassle to you.” I can see it being the last straw for someone whose fuse had nearly burned through. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/353 "2010-04-02T17:29:34Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > **cosmosdan:** > Fuck off, jackass. Hey, This isnt a customer service hotline. Though I wish it was so I could hang up on your ass… ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/354 "2010-04-02T21:49:09Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > **cosmosdan:** > Fuck off, jackass. Reminder: [QUOTE=Restricted language in the Pit] The following expressions should not be directed at other posters. * * * fuck you and variants, e.g., go fuck yourself, fuck off and die [/QUOTE] [Restricted language in the Pit - The BBQ Pit - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=508858) No warning issued. **Gfactor** Pit Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Sealemon2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@Sealemon2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sealemon2.0)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/355 "2010-04-02T23:35:37Z")
I get calls all the time demanding the impossible…everything from restoring signal to a customer in the middle of a blizzard (I’m a tier 2 tech support for a satellite company) to the completely unreasonable (No, I will NOT tell you my last name or where I live), but the fact is, if my company makes a mistake, it is my job to resolve it to the best of my ability, or get someone else involved who CAN fix it. If the customer is screaming and cussing, well, that’s not something the customer should do, of course. _I_ didn’t cause the problem, so why beat me up about it? But it doesn’t matter how the customer acts towards me. My company screwed up, so I will apologize and fix the problem. If the customer is an asshole is matters not a whit. If the OP can’t handle unreasonable, asshole customers, maybe a different job would be in order… ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2010, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/356 "2010-04-03T00:33:12Z")
> [@Sealemon2.0](#): > > If the OP can’t handle unreasonable, asshole > customers, maybe a different job would be in order… Late to the party and as out in left field as any. 1\> My company is clear about it: if someone is an abusive asshole, hang up. 2\> I don’t give a fuck how much abuse you pride yourself on taking, and because you believe you take more doesn’t mean I need another job. See #1 above. I take quite a bit and turn around almost 100% of my calls. Hell, I got three “supervisor requests” just today that I turned from angry people to happy customers. Most of the time all you gotta do is be nice and actually resolve their problem when other people couldn’t. I’m good at that. But if people refuse to be civil, again, our company is quite clear about it. Hang up. I’d hear some of the same macho bullshit when I worked Security. People who prided themselves on the amount of deep shit they could get into and handle. That because I wasn’t willing to wade in and “bust heads”, I should find another job. Utter bullshit then, utter bullshit now. Because I don’t work the same way, because I take advantage of my company’s policies, because I handle people a little differently than you - different from your pride in how much abuse you can take and still do the job - doesn’t mean that I should find another job. Maybe YOU should find another mindset where being tough and professional doesn’t depend on how much shit you have to put up with. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2010, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/357 "2010-04-03T02:43:16Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > **cosmosdan:** > Fuck off, jackass. Yeah, I’m the jackass who can read. ---
**Author:** ![Sealemon2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@Sealemon2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sealemon2.0)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2010, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/358 "2010-04-03T06:03:45Z")
> [@](#): > > Late to the party and as out in left field as any. Your company fucked up, and you refused to help the customer because that customer was being rude. That is a failure on your part, no matter what you’ve accomplished in the past. Just because I wasn’t the second person to reply to your OP does not make what I said “out of left field”. > [@](#): > > 1\> My company is clear about it: if someone is an abusive asshole, hang up. Just because you CAN do something doesn’t mean you should. This customer isn’t just going to go with the competition now, she’s gonna tell everyone she knows that your company screwed her, and the last guy (girl?) she talked to told her couldn’t help her, but he’d be glad to sell her something? > [@](#): > > As I said, her behavior was unconscionable. But as Chris Rock says, “I ain’t saying it’s right. I’m saying I understand.” Especially if, as indicated in the OP, his leadoff could be parsed as him saying that he can’t/won’t help her. I mean, “I can’t undo the refund, but I can sell you a new policy” does not immediately scream “I can fix this at no further cost or hassle to you.” I can see it being the last straw for someone whose fuse had nearly burned through. Exactly. ---
**Author:** ![MTCicero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@MTCicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MTCicero)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2010, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/359 "2010-04-03T13:49:16Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Late to the party and as out in left field as any. > > 1\> My company is clear about it: if someone is an abusive asshole, hang up. > 2\> I don’t give a fuck how much abuse you pride yourself on taking, and because you believe you take more doesn’t mean I need another job. See #1 above. > > I take quite a bit and turn around almost 100% of my calls. Hell, I got three “supervisor requests” just today that I turned from angry people to happy customers. Most of the time all you gotta do is be nice and actually resolve their problem when other people couldn’t. I’m good at that. But if people refuse to be civil, again, our company is quite clear about it. Hang up. > > I’d hear some of the same macho bullshit when I worked Security. People who prided themselves on the amount of deep shit they could get into and handle. That because I wasn’t willing to wade in and “bust heads”, I should find another job. Utter bullshit then, utter bullshit now. Because I don’t work the same way, because I take advantage of my company’s policies, because I handle people a little differently than you - different from your pride in how much abuse you can take and still do the job - doesn’t mean that I should find another job. Maybe YOU should find another mindset where being tough and professional doesn’t depend on how much shit you have to put up with. I’ll just bet that you’re a real treat to work with. ---
**Author:** ![MTCicero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@MTCicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MTCicero)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2010, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/360 "2010-04-03T13:51:33Z")
> [@Sealemon2.0](#): > > she’s gonna tell everyone she knows that your company screwed her, and the last **guy (girl?)** They keep saying it’s a guy, but its limp-wristed, self righteous posting style _really_ has me wondering. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816.md?page=19)