# Reality doesn't change because you don't want to hear it **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 26, 2010, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816 "2010-03-26T00:07:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/41 "2010-03-26T15:11:20Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Again, it being “unacceptable” to you doesn’t make miracles happen. Nope, but it will lead to me taking my business elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/42 "2010-03-26T15:13:09Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > I can see you’d be a joy to work with. The easiest way to get rid of me is to do what I want. I never yell, I never curse, and I never give up. > [@](#): > > I have no options to do what you suggest. I can hand it off to the specific area that handles those agreements, and let them deal with it, but I would bet money they’ll say exactly what I said. > > Again, it being “unacceptable” to you doesn’t make miracles happen. It’s not a miracle. It is perfectly possible. The trouble is that I don’t believe you when you say that this cannot happen. It can happen. There is someone at your company with the authority to say, “Make it so”, and it will happen. It is just a matter of getting to that person. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/43 "2010-03-26T15:16:07Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > The trouble is that I don’t believe you when you say that this cannot happen. It can happen. There is someone at your company with the authority to say, “Make it so”, and it will happen. It is just a matter of getting to that person. > > Regards, > Shodan Just ask for Picard. He aint that busy. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/44 "2010-03-26T15:18:01Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > No matter how many times I see it explained, and how it can benefit me in the long run, I still bristle at the word “sell” here. You screwed up, you can’t fix it, and now you want to sell me more of the same? The very word has baggage around it. This is kind of what bothers me. Different terminology could be better. “We can reinstate your policy, but this is how it will have to work…” something like that. ---
**Author:** ![jonesj2205](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecc23a/32.png) [@jonesj2205](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jonesj2205)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/45 "2010-03-26T15:22:20Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Let’s put it this way. > > It was an extended warranty. > It was already credited back to her credit card. > > At that point, we, like any other company, are unable to call the credit card company one week later and say “this was a mistake, undo it.” Just doesn’t work that way. All we can do is say “Well, you got your money back on it and the refund process is complete. We can, however, sell you another extended warranty.” So the extended warranty you are offering to sell her here. Is that for the same amount that you credited and covering the same period or would it be brand new for the full amount and full term? ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/46 "2010-03-26T15:27:00Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > The trouble is that I don’t believe you when you say that this cannot happen. It can happen. There is someone at your company with the authority to say, “Make it so”, and it will happen. It is just a matter of getting to that person. I’m in total agreement here. Multiple times I have been told “it’s not possible” and that actually means “it’s not possible for me to do that.” Which is fine, and is why I asked for someone earlier who does have the authority to do that. Not possible would be me asking the person to bed the space time continuum. Or making the Cubs win the World Series. Rectifying an error at the expense of the company is **always** possible, even if only the CEO has the authority to sign off on it. Don’t tell me it isn’t possible. Tell me, if you want, that you cannot do that, and you are not willing to transfer me to someone who can. ---
**Author:** ![gravitycrash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@gravitycrash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gravitycrash)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/47 "2010-03-26T15:40:05Z")
**Bed** ding the space time continuum is more likely. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/48 "2010-03-26T15:43:18Z")
**Chimera** , I really would like an answer from you on these questions. > [@BubbaDog](#): > > **Chimera** did you leave out any important info? > > Does this new plan you need to sell her cost more? > Does it extend the contract further than the one that was canceled? > Will she have to spend any of her time setting up a new plan? > Will she have to visit a retail store to buy the new plan? > > You gave us a story on how horrible the customer was to you but what exactly is the amount of inconvenience or extra cost that was placed on the customer by your company’s error. > > If its minimal I can sympathize with your cause. > > If it’s substantial then I don’t understand why you find it remarkable that this person reacted negatively. > > I know if some company screwed up my transaction and told me that their business practices didn’t allow them to fix it properly and that I should just deal with it… I would have a very hard time being pleasant. ---
**Author:** ![Arglefraster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3bc359/32.png) [@Arglefraster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arglefraster)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/49 "2010-03-26T15:44:17Z")
> [@Mr\_Shine](#): > > His company screwed up, maybe he couldn’t cancel the refund but trying to sell a brand new plan rather than restoring the old one in unacceptable. Although there’s no excuse for being rude to front-line support, if **Chimera** has made it clear that he’s the top of the pyaramid, and she won’t be getting any further she is 100% in the right to be angry, and show her anger to **Chimera**. But it’s not **Chimera’s** fault if the company has things set up in such a way that reinstating an existing plan after cancelltion (as opposed to setting up a brand new one like he offered) is impossible. Maybe I’m reading his post wrong, but the impression I got wasn’t that he had a problem with her being angry at how things are set up. He had a problem with her blaming him for not doing something that it was impossible for him to do after (and this is the important bit) it was explained to her that it was impossible. I agree that she is 100% in the right to be angry. It’s not fair that she has to go through this crap as a result of the company’s mistake. But it was also unfair to take that out on **Chimera**. He was just a convenient target. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/50 "2010-03-26T16:03:33Z")
This reminds me of when I had to deal with Sprint. I moved to an area where I couldn’t get cell phone coverage from them any more, but I was still under their \*&)#ing contract. Luckily, they agreed with me that they didn’t serve my new address. All I had to do (start laughing here) was fax them evidence that I had actually moved to my new address, and they’d cancel my contract and make it all go away. This I did. I got another bill. I called them, and they said they never got my fax, and asked me to fax it again. This I did. Note that I don’t have a fax machine, and the nearest Kinko’s is about a 20 minute drive away. I got another bill. I called again. They said they never got the fax, and I needed to send it again. This is where I put my foot down. I politely informed them that no, I had already done my part of the bargain twice. I had proof. I had the little printout of the fax, showing that it had been received at the number they gave me (two different numbers, of course, since I kept getting different call centers). I had fulfilled their requirements to get this straightened out, and I wasn’t going to do it any more. If their system was so screwed up that they couldn’t find my documentation, that is simply not my problem. I stuck to that position quite firmly, and the girl on the phone stuck quite firmly to her opinion that I needed to send it again, and we went around and around and around for quite some time. I’m very glad to say that I never lost my temper, but I refused to budge. Eventually, she put me on hold for a while, and came back to tell me that her supervisor had authorized her to cancel my account, cancel all outstanding balance, and not charge any cancellation fee. I WON! Next month, I got a bill, including a $200+ cancellation fee. I called back, and finally got it straightened out. Luckily, the last person was competent enough to document what I’d been told, so it was all there in their system. But I’ll never deal with Sprint again. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/51 "2010-03-26T16:07:24Z")
**Chimera** , no matter what the situation, the customer had no right to yell, scream, or abuse you in any way. (Personally, any time I’m getting mad when talking to customer service or tech support, before I start getting remotely shouty, I always make sure to explicitly state to the person I’m talking to that I am not mad at them and understand that they’re not responsible for the problem.) However: > [@Shodan](#): > > The **only** acceptable response is “My apologies for the screw-up. I will fix it by COB today, and it won’t cost you anything. Again, my apologies.” Customers do not care what your bureaucratic procedures are, nor should they. > [@tdn](#): > > No matter how many times I see it explained, and how it can benefit me in the long run, I still bristle at the word “sell” here. You screwed up, you can’t fix it, and now you want to sell me more of the same? The very word has baggage around it. Holy shit–a thread where I’m in complete agreement with \*\*Shodan \*\*\*and \ ***tdn**? Somebody hold me. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/52 "2010-03-26T17:06:02Z")
> [@Arglefraster](#): > > But it’s not **Chimera’s** fault if the company has things set up in such a way that reinstating an existing plan after cancelltion (as opposed to setting up a brand new one like he offered) is impossible. It is not impossible. As **villa** says, if the CEO called customer service up and said, “Fix this issue immediately at no cost to the customer” it would happen. Therefore it is possible, and (as I said) it is merely a matter of finding the person who has the necessary authority. “That would mean a lot of trouble for me and some expense to the company” != “impossible”. Customer service people who say “that is impossible” usually mean “it is less trouble for me to blow you off than to do what you want”. Ergo, the way to proceed is to make it more trouble to try to blow me off than to do what I want. Polite intransigence is the way to deal with bureaucracy. I’m not going to be nasty to you. I am also not going to take No for an answer. If that annoys you, then there is a good and simple way to get rid of the annoyance. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Arglefraster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3bc359/32.png) [@Arglefraster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arglefraster)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/53 "2010-03-26T17:15:48Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > This reminds me of when I had to deal with Sprint. Ugh, part of my job at my company is helping employees set up their Blackberries with our Blackberry server. Since we don’t allow SMTP or whatever to our Exchange server, users _have_ to activate with our Blackberry server to get their work email on their phones, and for that they _have_ to have the Blackberry Enterprise data plan on their service plan. More so than any other service provider, Sprint loves to give us the run-around when we’re trying to get someone set up. It usually goes something like this. Us: We need to make sure so-and-so has Blackberry Enterprise service on their data plan. Sprint: Yep, it’s on there. Us: _Try to activate and fail. Call Sprint back._ Sprint: Yep, it’s definitely on there. We swear. Us: _Try to activate and fail. Call Blackberry._ Blackberry: _Checks the PIN of the device._ There’s no Enterprise service on this device. The service provider needs to add that before you can activate. Us: _Call Sprint back._ Sprint: Yep, it’s on there. Us: Are you sure? We just called Blackberry. They can see the service on the device, and they say it’s not there. Sprint: Hang on I’ll check. (WTF? If you haven’t checked yet, why did you say it was on there?) Sprint: Yeah, there’s no Enterprise service on there, but you don’t need it. _Cue long argument in which Sprint rep tries to walk me through setting up web-based mail and I try to explain that our Exchange server doesn’t work that way. Yes it could work that way if we configured the Exchange server to work that way, but the higher ups have put their foot down. It’s Enterprise or nuttin’._ Sprint: Ok I added the Enterprise service. _Blackberry finally activates._ ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/54 "2010-03-26T17:16:46Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Holy shit–a thread where I’m in complete agreement with \*\*Shodan \*\*\*and \ ***tdn**? Somebody hold me. There, there. It’s okay. I’m sure you’ll be screaming at one or the other soon enough in another thread. But yeah. _Can’t_ is a word reserved only for physical impossibilities. If it’s being used in relation to company rules, there’s a problem. If the situation is the company’s fault, then they need to eat whatever loss they incur in order to fix the problem, and then they need to make sure that problem doesn’t happen again. ---
**Author:** ![Arglefraster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3bc359/32.png) [@Arglefraster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arglefraster)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/55 "2010-03-26T17:35:54Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > As **villa** says, if the CEO called customer service up and said, “Fix this issue immediately at no cost to the customer” it would happen. Therefore it is possible, and (as I said) it is merely a matter of finding the person who has the necessary authority. That’s not always true though. It may be the case in this instance as I don’t know the details of how his company works, but in any customer service role, there are going to be times where you simply cannot do what the customer wants, no matter how fair it is or how much you want to. At those time you have to give them the best option you possibly can, and (depending on the situation) get approval to give them some kind of gift as an apology (like a discount or freebie or something). ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/56 "2010-03-26T17:44:23Z")
> [@Arglefraster](#): > > That’s not always true though. It may be the case in this instance as I don’t know the details of how his company works, but in any customer service role, there are going to be times where you simply cannot do what the customer wants, no matter how fair it is or how much you want to. At those time you have to give them the best option you possibly can, and (depending on the situation) get approval to give them some kind of gift as an apology (like a discount or freebie or something). Any company that doesn’t have some kind of policy for redressing mistakes made by the company isn’t going to last long. (Ideally, anyway.) Managers _should_ be watching for this kind of problem and be willing to step in to make it right. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/57 "2010-03-26T18:00:32Z")
> [@Arglefraster](#): > > but in any customer service role, there are going to be times where you simply cannot do what the customer wants, no matter how fair it is or how much you want to Oh, absolutely, \*that particular person \*may not be able to make it happen. But \*someone \*can. I can’t design a jet engine, but I’m not going to tell you it’s physically impossible to do so. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/58 "2010-03-26T18:12:17Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Holy shit–a thread where I’m in complete agreement with \*\*Shodan \*\*\*and \ ***tdn**? Somebody hold me. Add me, and for God’s sake someone take a picture because nobody will ever believe it. > [@Arglefraster](#): > > I agree that she is 100% in the right to be angry. It’s not fair that she has to go through this crap as a result of the company’s mistake. But it was also unfair to take that out on **Chimera**. He was just a convenient target. Yes, it’s unfortunate that his company set him up as the bulwark between its own incompetence and the customer, without giving him the proper tools to make things right. Nonetheless, the customer was being told that \*\*Chimera \*\*was a) the end of the line and b) powerless to reverse the error. He was a convenient target because the target was hung squarely on him by his employer and the customer had nowhere else to shoot. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/59 "2010-03-26T18:15:36Z")
It’s also possibly not _legally_ possible, or possibly not possible to get the _bank_ to agree to what the woman wants done. That is, re-charging a card after voiding it, without a new agreement to purchase something. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816/60 "2010-03-26T18:26:30Z")
She shouldn’t have been re-charged, period. The \*company \*fucked up; \*they \*need to eat the incorrect repayment. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-doesnt-change-because-you-dont-want-to-hear-it/533816.md?page=4)