# Reality finally sinking in - Iraq expectations lowered **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 15, 2005, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094 "2005-08-15T14:26:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/1 "2005-08-15T14:26:41Z")
[http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8942482/](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8942482/) About fucking time these morons in charge woke the fuck up. Pretty sad that this turned out exactly how many of us predicted, worse off then if we had stayed out. Looks like the new line (which I’ve seen coming for over a year) will be that we’ll hand over Iraq, and when it blows up to shit we’ll blame the Iraqis for their inability to control the place. I’m sure the revisionists will also forget the reality of things when we handed the country over, instead painting a rosy picture of how the country was “perfect” (and the idiots will believe them too!) when we gave it to the Iraqis. I can hear it now, “we went in freed them from the tyranny of SH and rebuilt their country, we did all we could have”. All this said while Bagdad burns. We should have never touched that fucking place. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/2 "2005-08-15T14:31:07Z")
Does anyone else have Mad TV’s video dating skit music in their heads? _Lowered Expectaaationssss_ I wondering if it took the administration this long to realize their stupidity or this long to admit to their stupidity. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/3 "2005-08-15T14:48:16Z")
If things go the way the seem to nowadays, you’ll see all the usual crew, O’Reilly, Hannity etc. proclaim this as just another commonsense move on behalf of the fuckers who fucked up so badly in the first place\* \*I don’t think they fucked up at all BTW. They got what the wanted IMO. They sent there message and made lots of money for a lot of their “base” in the process. The lives of average Americans lost fighting and the lives of Iraqis means nothing to these cunts. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/4 "2005-08-15T15:07:44Z")
> [@yojimbo](#): > > \*I don’t think they fucked up at all BTW. They got what the wanted IMO. They sent there message and made lots of money for a lot of their “base” in the process. The lives of average Americans lost fighting and the lives of Iraqis means nothing to these cunts. I agree, I’m saying they fucked up from a historical POV. Fall of the republic and all that shit… ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/5 "2005-08-15T15:14:45Z")
> [@](#): > > Bush: ‘We’re helping Iraqis succeed’ I suspect he means the insurgents. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/6 "2005-08-15T15:46:07Z")
Some choice bits from the article: > [@](#): > > “We set out to establish a democracy, but we’re slowly realizing we will have some form of Islamic republic,” said another U.S. official familiar with policymaking from the beginning, who like some others interviewed would speak candidly only on the condition of anonymity. “That process is being repeated all over.” > [@](#): > > Washington now does not expect to fully defeat the insurgency before departing > [@](#): > > The United States had high hopes of quick, big-budget fixes on electricity that would show Iraqis tangible benefits from the ouster of Hussein. But inadequate training for Iraqi staff, regional rivalries restricting the power flow to Baghdad, inadequate fuel for electrical generators and attacks on the infrastructure have contributed to the worst summer of electrical shortages in the capital. > > Water is also a “tough, tough” situation in a desert country, said a U.S. official in Baghdad familiar with reconstruction issues. Pumping stations depend on electricity, and engineers now say the system has hundreds of thousands of leaks. > > “The most thoroughly dashed expectation was the ability to build a robust self-sustaining economy. We’re nowhere near that. State industries, electricity are all below what they were before we got there,” said Wayne White, former head of the State Department’s Iraq intelligence team who is now at the Middle East Institute. “The administration says Saddam ran down the country. But most damage was from looting [after the invasion], which took down state industries, large private manufacturing, the national electric” system. Amazing, Washington is now admitting that Iraq will not be a democracy, that we cannot defeat the insurgents and that we have no intention of fixing the infrastructure we’ve destroyed. So what did we accomplsih exactly? From reading this article, it sounds like even the bushies are admitting that Iraq has been a failure and a mistake on every front. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/7 "2005-08-15T15:51:41Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > So what did we accomplsih exactly? From reading this article, it sounds like even the bushies are admitting that Iraq has been a failure and a mistake on every front. If one buys into the theory (as I do) that the sole reason for invading Iraq was for Bush to depose Hussein - well, they did that. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/8 "2005-08-15T15:54:28Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > So what did we accomplsih exactly? From reading this article, it sounds like even the bushies are admitting that Iraq has been a failure and a mistake on every front. Would could have _literally_ threw that 400 Billion (and still counting) on a bonfire and got a better value for our money. I honestly can’t fathom who would support these bozos. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/9 "2005-08-15T16:00:48Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > If one buys into the theory (as I do) that the sole reason for invading Iraq was for Bush to depose Hussein - well, they did that. Yes, but in service of what? ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/10 "2005-08-15T16:03:14Z")
My friend got into a car accident with a tow truck. It was basically a no-fault type accident and the driver offerred to repair my friend’s car for free, and leave the police out of it. He showed my friend his auto repair shop to prove that he was legit. My friend, being rather conservative, would normally call the police and tell the insurance company. In this case, he considered the $1,000 savings from not having to pay a deductible, and decided to let the garage fix his car. Well, they did a piss poor job patchwork type job. They didn’t properly fix the dents, used the wrong color paint, and somehow managed to add some new scratches and dents on the other side of the car. My friend took his car back there several times over a couple of months, paying extra for public transportation each time his car was in the shop. Finally, he gave up and decided to live with a banged up car. About a month after his last visit to the mechanic, he gets a bill for $1,000 for (paraphrasing) “expenses above and beyond what we agreed on”. My friend was now fuming. He obviously was not going to pay. But he called them asked how they had the nerve to ask him for money. The response: It’s not our fault you banged up your car. tow truck/garage = USA my friend/his car = Iraq ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/11 "2005-08-15T16:05:39Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Yes, but in service of what? In service of the desire of Bush to depose Hussein, what else? ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/12 "2005-08-15T16:05:50Z")
> [@](#): > > The United States had high hopes of quick, big-budget fixes on electricity that would show Iraqis tangible benefits from the ouster of Hussein. But the electricity was working _before_ his ouster. If we wanted to show them benefits of the war, shouldn’t we have picked problems that the war didn’t cause? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/13 "2005-08-15T16:06:15Z")
I really, really do hope that the George W. Bush Presidential Library is hidden behind a pork-rendering plant, or perhaps in a ravine someplace. Or the Badlands of North Dakota! Yeah! Great idea! ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/14 "2005-08-15T16:47:13Z")
What’s the over/under on the constitution draft getting completed today? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/15 "2005-08-15T17:11:24Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > What’s the over/under on the constitution draft getting completed today? [http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2005/08/15/international/i074946D22.DTL](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2005/08/15/international/i074946D22.DTL) > [@](#): > > The Iraqi parliament delayed a session Monday on whether to approve a new constitution hours before a midnight deadline as faction leaders failed in last-minute talks to agree on a federated state and other divisive issues. > The delay came after some Iraqi politicians suggested that parliament should extend the deadline for approving the charter while others said it could be approved over Sunni objections as last-minute talks failed to produce agreement on a federated state and other divisive issues. > The 275-member National Assembly had been scheduled to convene at 6 p.m. (10 a.m. EDT) to consider the draft but moments ahead of the time, the meeting room in the heavily guarded Green Zone was absent of legislators. > It initially was delayed for two hours, but Kurdish lawmaker Mahmoud Othman said the parliament would not convene before 10 p.m. (2 p.m. EDT.) > The lawmakers have until midnight to reach agreement under an interim constitution. > Othman said meetings were still under way on the outstanding issues in the constitution and so far “no final agreements have been reached.” In other reports it was mentioned that an agreement will appear on time… regardless if the Sunni leaders don’t approve. Shiite leaders threatened to ram the constitution through the Iraqi National Assembly. Sounds like a shotgun wedding to me. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/16 "2005-08-15T17:11:42Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > What’s the over/under on the constitution draft getting completed today? Don’t know, but they’ve got less than 3 hours to do _something_ now. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/17 "2005-08-15T17:22:16Z")
Moving the goalposts is just step one. Step two will be explaining that its all Michael Moore’s/Clinton’s fault. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/18 "2005-08-15T17:31:26Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Moving the goalposts is just step one. Step two will be explaining that its all Michael Moore’s/Clinton’s fault. Both Bill _and_ Hillary. And don’t forget Kerry; he’s responsible too! Heck, if it weren’t for those godless homo traitor liberals stabbing America in the back, we woulda won. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/19 "2005-08-15T17:32:21Z")
Any guesses on the exact date of Kurdistan Indepence Day? I’ll take March 12, 2006 in the pool. The formal alliance of the newly-elected, sharia-based Shiite theocracy in Iraq with the one in Iran can’t be long afterward. Turkish PM Erdogan is starting a peace-and-reconciliation campaign with the Kurds in Turkey. That’s a good thing anyway, but he can’t be unaware that there could be an even stronger desire for secession among them if there’s an adjacent independent homeland willing to expand its borders. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/20 "2005-08-15T17:32:42Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Moving the goalposts is just step one. Step two will be explaining that its all Michael Moore’s/Clinton’s fault. I think it’s Hillary Clinton’s and John Kerry’s fault… remember, they didn’t oppose the war, so they must bear just as much responsibility as Bush. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094.md?page=2)