# Reality finally sinking in - Iraq expectations lowered **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 15, 2005, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094 "2005-08-15T14:26:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/61 "2005-08-16T22:14:12Z")
> [@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor](#): > > Tell it to the Tutsis. Hutu? ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/62 "2005-08-16T22:23:05Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Amazing, Washington is now admitting that Iraq will not be a democracy, that we cannot defeat the insurgents and that we have no intention of fixing the infrastructure we’ve destroyed. > > So what did we accomplsih exactly? From reading this article, it sounds like even the bushies are admitting that Iraq has been a failure and a mistake on every front. Can somebody please explain to me why these fuckers are not in jail? Please? What, I can make meth in my basement and go to jail for ten years, but if I lie out my fucking ass for a year to start a war, completely invade and dismantle a sovereign nation under those false pretenses, kill tens of thousands of innocent people, waste the lives of our soldiers, squander our goodwill after 9/11 so now we’re more hated than ever before, and royally fuck up just about every possible strategic decision that could be royally fucked up, in a span of months racking up a Vietnamesque list of blunders, and…and…I get _reelected?_ Re-FUCKING-elected? What the fuck happened to this country? What? Why do I feel like I’ve been teleported to bizarro-world? What in the holy fuck happened? Jesus H. Fucking Christ on a Flaming Pogostick, my fellow Americans, why did you let this _happen_? ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/63 "2005-08-17T00:11:24Z")
> [@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor](#): > > I’m **not advocating it** , dammit, I’m very afraid of what the Turks might do. > > And they did it before. > > So, maybe there’s cause to be worried. I agree; I am worried about this also. I have been worried about the Turks in this regard for years. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/64 "2005-08-17T00:16:56Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > Re-FUCKING-elected? > > What the fuck happened to this country? Wasn’t Nixon re-elected four years after promising to end the war in Vietnam? ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/65 "2005-08-17T00:50:03Z")
Oh yeah. Thanks for reminding me. We’re stupid, and we stay stupid. Gawd, for a moment there I actually had this funny illusion that a society ought to really learn from its mistakes. Crazy, huh? ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/66 "2005-08-17T19:02:14Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > Oh yeah. Thanks for reminding me. We’re stupid, and we stay stupid. Gawd, for a moment there I actually had this funny illusion that a society ought to really learn from its mistakes. Crazy, huh? You must admit though, it’s fascinating to be alive during the time America jumped the shark. ---
**Author:** ![Rufus\_Xavier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eada6e/32.png) [@Rufus\_Xavier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rufus_Xavier)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/67 "2005-08-17T19:11:33Z")
“The truth is far more powerful than any weapon of mass destruction.” - Mohandas K. Gandhi ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/68 "2005-08-17T20:01:23Z")
Amazing the lack of response from our Usual Suspects. They just busy awaiting instructions? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/69 "2005-08-17T20:35:01Z")
Too busy digging for dirt on Cindy Sheehan, I’d wager. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2005, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/70 "2005-08-18T00:52:22Z")
Yeah, I was hoping to see some of their responses, but I guess that ain’t going to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2005, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/71 "2005-08-18T01:01:19Z")
Even Republicans seem to be resigning themselves to this, from a surprising source: TOM DELAY: “I cannot support a failed foreign policy. History teaches us that it is often easier to make war than peace. This administration is just learning that lesson right now. The President began this mission with very vague objectives and lots of unanswered questions. A month later, these questions are still unanswered. There are no clarified rules of engagement. There is no timetable. There is no legitimate definition of victory. There is no contingency plan for mission creep. There is no clear funding program. There is no agenda to bolster our over-extended military. There is no explanation defining what vital national interests are at stake. There was no strategic plan for war when the President started this thing, and there still is no plan today” Oh, wait. That was him talking about Bosnia. A war in which an ongoing genocide was stopped without a single American casualty, and the post-war was far far better managed. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2005, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/72 "2005-08-18T01:20:54Z")
Oh yeah? Oh yeah? Wul…wul…_Clinton got his dick sucked an lied about it_! WHY DO YOU HATE AMERICA! ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2005, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/73 "2005-08-18T09:02:09Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Think we’ll get footage of the helicoptors pulling out, ala Vietnam? No, no, no. Mustn’t draw parallels with Vietnam. That is strictly, _strictly_ verboten. Not allowed. And completely untrue. When right wing history records that the Iraq mess was lost because of weak kneed pansies making the US military fight with one hand tied behind its back, that also _will not, under any circumstances_ give rise to any entitlement to mention the V word. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2005, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/74 "2005-08-18T13:15:47Z")
> [@Apos](#): > > Even Republicans seem to be resigning themselves to this, from a surprising source: > > TOM DELAY: “I cannot support a failed foreign policy. History teaches us that it is often easier to make war than peace. This administration is just learning that lesson right now. The President began this mission with very vague objectives and lots of unanswered questions. A month later, these questions are still unanswered. There are no clarified rules of engagement. There is no timetable. There is no legitimate definition of victory. There is no contingency plan for mission creep. There is no clear funding program. There is no agenda to bolster our over-extended military. There is no explanation defining what vital national interests are at stake. There was no strategic plan for war when the President started this thing, and there still is no plan today” > > Oh, wait. That was him talking about Bosnia. A war in which an ongoing genocide was stopped without a single American casualty, and the post-war was far far better managed. Wow, I’m speechless. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2005, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/75 "2005-08-18T15:12:59Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > No, no, no. Mustn’t draw parallels with Vietnam. That is strictly, _strictly_ verboten. Not allowed. And completely untrue. > > When right wing history records that the Iraq mess was lost because of weak kneed pansies making the US military fight with one hand tied behind its back, that also _will not, under any circumstances_ give rise to any entitlement to mention the V word. Vagina? You sex-obsessed Democrats disgust me. Fuckin libruls. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2005, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/76 "2005-08-18T22:28:20Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > Wow, I’m speechless. Yeah: real princes of consistency, no? > **[Ahh, the good ol' days](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2005/8/17/139137/-)** > > Quotes from when Clinton committed troops to Bosnia: > > "You can support the troops but not the president." > \--Rep Tom Delay (R-TX) > "Well, I just think it's a bad idea. What's going to happen is the... > [@](#): > > “[The President] . . . is once again releasing American military might on a foreign country with an ill-defined objective and no exit strategy. He has yet to tell the Congress how much this operation will cost. And he has not informed our nation’s armed forces about how long they will be away from home. These strikes do not make for a sound foreign policy.” > –Sen. Rick Santorum (R-PA) Not telling us how much it will cost??!!! An outrage! > [@](#): > > “If we are going to commit American troops, we must be certain they have a clear mission, an achievable goal and an exit strategy.” > –Karen Hughes, speaking on behalf of George W Bush > > “Victory means exit strategy, and it’s important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is.” > –Governor George W. Bush (R-TX) How dare he demand an exit strategy?! Does he hate _the troops and or America_ and want to _encourge the ethnic cleansers_??! ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2005, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/77 "2005-08-18T23:03:27Z")
> [@Apos](#): > > Even Republicans seem to be resigning themselves to this, from a surprising source: > > TOM DELAY: “I cannot support a failed foreign policy. History teaches us that it is often easier to make war than peace. This administration is just learning that lesson right now. The President began this mission with very vague objectives and lots of unanswered questions…” Ha! You had me there, for a second. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/78 "2005-08-19T15:25:34Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > Can somebody please explain to me why these fuckers are not in jail? Please? What, I can make meth in my basement and go to jail for ten years, but if I lie out my fucking ass for a year to start a war, completely invade and dismantle a sovereign nation under those false pretenses, kill tens of thousands of innocent people, waste the lives of our soldiers, squander our goodwill after 9/11 so now we’re more hated than ever before, and royally fuck up just about every possible strategic decision that could be royally fucked up, in a span of months racking up a Vietnamesque list of blunders, and…and…I get _reelected?_ But what if God chose you to make meth in your basement for Freedom ™ and Liberty ™? [singing] God Bless my Meth Lab Dope that I love [/singing] ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/79 "2005-08-19T16:03:17Z")
> [@Apos](#): > > How dare he demand an exit strategy?! Does he hate _the troops and or America_ and want to _encourge the ethnic cleansers_??! IOKIYAAR. It’s not just an acronym, it’s a way of life. The really fun thing is you get to have a whole bevy of dupes who will mentally contort themselves all day long at your whim. And you get to screw them over and over…and they’ll thank you for it. Because, no matter what you do, at least you’re not one of _ **them** _. -Joe, one of them ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/80 "2005-08-19T16:48:29Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > -Joe, one of them Chuck Hagel’s one of them too: > [@](#): > > “We are seen as occupiers, we are targets. We have got to get out. I don’t think we can sustain our current policy, nor do I think we should,” [In U.S. heartland, anxiety over Iraq, oil](http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050818/ts_nm/iraq_heartland_dc_1) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094.md?page=5)