# Reality finally sinking in - Iraq expectations lowered **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 15, 2005, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094 "2005-08-15T14:26:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/81 "2005-08-19T17:10:46Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Chuck Hagel’s one of them too: > [In U.S. heartland, anxiety over Iraq, oil](http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050818/ts_nm/iraq_heartland_dc_1) It’s disgusting how low the libruls of this country will sink. If you don’t like it here, Hagel, go back to France! Or Russia! Or some other Commie country like Japan! I wish **Steph90210** would come in here and show us some evidence that Hagel is merely Michael Moore’s puppet. I mean, we all know it deep down. We just need him to connect the dots for us. If only this country had a strong Republican president we wouldn’t have these problems! Everyone knows that it’s those faggot commie Democrats that can’t handle foreign affairs and national defense! Vote out the goddamned incompetent Democrat pussy from the Oval Office so we can get a **REAL MAN** , a true Gawd-Fearing Republican in there to set things straight! May the soul of Saint Ronnie come back to us and show us the way! -Joe, fears he is turning into **luci** ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/82 "2005-08-19T17:55:34Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > -Joe, fears he is turning into **luci** Could be worse – could be **Reeder**. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/83 "2005-08-19T18:07:06Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > Could be worse – could be **Reeder**. 😛 You don’t understand! It’s all about NATIONAL DEFENSE!!! Everyone knows that Democrats are WEAK ON NATIONAL DEFENSE!!! Everyone knows that Republicans are STRONG ON NATIONAL DEFENSE!!! Since it’s a matter of NATIONAL DEFNESE!!! it is a tautology that the problems in Iraq are the Democrats’ fault because everyone knows Democrats are weak on NATIONAL DEFENSE!!! Why are the Democrats causing all these problems in Iraq? If only Bill O’Reilly was president\*! Or Rush Limbaugh\*\*! Or Ann Coulter\*\*\*! -Joe, doing a **duffer** impersonation - - Heart palpatations started yet? \*\* - How about now? \*\*\* - I may be getting tried for manslaughter here…but still, isn’t about time we had our first mare president? ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/84 "2005-08-19T19:01:20Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > \*\*\* - I may be getting tried for manslaughter here…but still, isn’t about time we had our first mare president? Which is to say, whether it’s a mare or a horse’s ass in the Oval Office, the output is still manure. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/85 "2005-08-19T19:50:43Z")
> [@](#): > > Quote: > “[The President] . . . is once again releasing American military might on a foreign country with an ill-defined objective and no exit strategy. He has yet to tell the Congress how much this operation will cost. And he has not informed our nation’s armed forces about how long they will be away from home. These strikes do not make for a sound foreign policy.” > –Sen. Rick Santorum (R-PA) I bet when confronted with this the spin would be that “we can’t put a price on freedom” or “whatever it costs to protect the contry”. A bunch a vague bullshit. > [@](#): > > Quote: > “If we are going to commit American troops, we must be certain they have a clear mission, an achievable goal and an exit strategy.” > –Karen Hughes, speaking on behalf of George W Bush > > “Victory means exit strategy, and it’s important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is.” > –Governor George W. Bush (R-TX) These are a bit easier, our mission is to win the war on terror and our exit strategy is to “see this fight to the end”, which of course will never fucking happen. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/86 "2005-08-19T20:01:03Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > I bet when confronted with this the spin would be that “we can’t put a price on freedom” or “whatever it costs to protect the contry”. A bunch a vague bullshit. Haven’t you heard? “9/11 changed everything” erases all Republican hypocrisy. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/87 "2005-08-19T20:01:46Z")
The horses are getting their hoofs wet. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/88 "2005-08-19T20:06:26Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > The horses are getting their hoofs wet. I don’t get it. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/89 "2005-08-19T20:23:46Z")
**World Eater** , it is time to hang your head in shame and ask for this thread to be closed. You have been rebutted, and your evil intent exposed: [Joint chiefs chairman says expectations not lowered in Iraq](http://www.dcmilitary.com/army/pentagram/10_33/national_news/36631-1.html) > [@](#): > > The chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Wednesday dismissed rhetoric that the United States has lowered its expectations in Iraq. > Speaking with Matt Lauer in Baghdad, Iraq, on NBC’s “Today” program, Air Force Gen. Richard B. Myers blamed the rhetoric on people hoping to expose a rift between military leaders in Iraq and officials in Washington. > Emphasizing that plans in Iraq are “on track,” the United States’ top military officer said those who say otherwise are “are trying to find some divide between the military leadership over here and the folks back in Washington and so forth.” > “I can guarantee you there is none,” Myers said. Why do you hate America? General Myers went on to explain America’s difficulties in Iraq: > [@](#): > > “This is a different kind of war,” … “and it’s the nature [of it] that this enemy keeps adapting.” I’ll bet you had no idea that this is the _first_ war in which America’s enemys actually _adapt to our tactics_, now did you? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/90 "2005-08-19T20:28:44Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > General Myers went on to explain America’s difficulties in Iraq: I’ll bet you had no idea that this is the _first_ war in which America’s enemys actually _adapt to our tactics_, now did you? 😉 How _dare_ they?!? Haven’t they read the script we prepared for them? ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/91 "2005-08-19T21:01:32Z")
Stop it with all the doom and gloom! You’re simply looking at things the old way and… > [@](#): > > **"[That’s not the way the world really works anymore](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_based_community)," he continued. "We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."** ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/92 "2005-08-19T21:20:59Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > I don’t get it. All your criticism of Iraq invasion is exact copy of what Bush and Santorum said about Kosovo. You are channeling Bush! Is it sad or funny? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/93 "2005-08-19T21:28:02Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > All your criticism of Iraq invasion is exact copy of what Bush and Santorum said about Kosovo. You are channeling Bush! Is it sad or funny? Except this time it’s true? Drink some more Kool-Aid, **Iskander**. We wouldn’t want you to have to actually think about what this administration’s done or anything… ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/94 "2005-08-19T21:29:56Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > All your criticism of Iraq invasion is exact copy of what Bush and Santorum said about Kosovo. You are channeling Bush! Is it sad or funny? How many soldiers died then? How long were we there? How many European Allies helped out? Gosh, you’re right. No difference at all. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/95 "2005-08-19T21:44:01Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > All your criticism of Iraq invasion is exact copy of what Bush and Santorum said about Kosovo. You are channeling Bush! Is it sad or funny? I dunno, you’ll agree that Kosovo went a hell of a lot better then Iraq is currently going, right? ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/96 "2005-08-19T22:34:48Z")
I agree, Kosovo is not Iraq and Iraq is not Kosovo. Kosovo is not in the Middle East, has only two ethnic groups. Iraq is 40 times bigger, 13 times the population and so on… ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/97 "2005-08-19T22:46:58Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > Iraq is 40 times bigger, 13 times the population and so on… Which, I don’t know…_should have been taken into account while planning for this goddamn stupid war_, ya think? ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/98 "2005-08-19T22:49:16Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Which, I don’t know…_should have been taken into account while planning for this goddamn stupid war_, ya think? Naw, that would have been reality-based. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/99 "2005-08-19T23:06:02Z")
We need to cut the President some slack for a moment and ask ourselves if he did his best to live up to his promises. After all, _best is best_: What was his military philosophy as he ran for the highest office in the land? (From [the 2000 Presidential Debates](http://www.debates.org/pages/trans2000c.html)): > [@](#): > > **MEMBER OF AUDIENCE** : Today our military forces are stretched thinner and doing more than they have ever done before during peacetime. I would like to know what you are – I think we would all like to know what you as president would do to ensure proper resourcing for the current mission and/or more selectively choosing the time and place that our forces will be used around the world. (Response by Gore followed by this response from then Candidate Bush): > [@](#): > > It must be in the national interests, must be in our vital interests whether we ever send troops. The mission must be clear. Soldiers must understand why we’re going. The force must be strong enough so that the mission can be accomplished. And the exit strategy needs to be well-defined. I’m concerned that we’re overdeployed around the world. See, I think the mission has somewhat become fuzzy. Should I be fortunate enough to earn your confidence, the mission of the United States military will be to be prepared and ready to fight and win war. And therefore prevent war from happening in the first place. There may be some moments when we use our troops as peacekeepers, but not often. The Vice President mentioned my view of long-term for the military. I want to make sure the equipment for our military is the best it can possibly be, of course. But we have an opportunity – we have an opportunity to use our research and development capacities, the great technology of the United States, to make our military lighter, harder to find, more lethal. We have an opportunity, really, if you think about it, if we’re smart and have got a strategic vision and a leader who understands strategic planning, to make sure that we change the terms of the battlefield of the future so we can keep the peace. This is a peaceful nation, and I intend to keep the peace. Spending money is one thing. But spending money without a strategic plan can oftentimes be wasted. First thing I’m going to do is ask the Secretary of Defense to develop a plan so we are making sure we’re not spending our money on political projects, but on projects to make sure our soldiers are well-paid, well-housed, and have the best equipment in the world. He said that we would not often use our troops as peacekeepers and he has kept his word. _With all due respect…_ ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094/100 "2005-08-19T23:10:48Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > We need to cut the President some slack for a moment and ask ourselves if he did his best to live up to his promises. > … > > He said that we would not often use our troops as peacekeepers and he has kept his word. There is a good long-standing American tradition to decieve the population by promising peace and delivering war. Woodrow, Franklin, George… Why do you hate America? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality-finally-sinking-in-iraq-expectations-lowered/317094.md?page=6)