# Reality **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 25, 2002, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality/100081 "2002-03-25T22:27:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mandos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mandos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mandos)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2002, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality/100081/1 "2002-03-25T22:27:33Z")
What is reality? What is real? Look at the keyboard before you. How do you know that it even exists? Could it be just a product of your own mind, a hallucination infecting every sense so that it exists to you? If a tree falls in the middle of the forest, and there is no one to hear it, is there really any sound? Does the world exist outside of the minds of conscious beings? These questions and numerous others come to mind when one ponders reality. Let us devote this thread to the discussion of this subject. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2002, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality/100081/2 "2002-03-25T22:54:28Z")
[In my exclusive and closed frame of reference] my cat’s breath smells like cat food. ---
**Author:** ![super\_head](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@super\_head](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/super_head)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2002, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality/100081/3 "2002-03-25T22:56:00Z")
My reality? I’m just a brain in a jar on a shelf… ☹ ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2002, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality/100081/4 "2002-03-25T22:57:56Z")
The “question” is “irrelevant,” since “all” “reality” is merely a “figment” of my “imagination.” ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2002, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality/100081/5 "2002-03-25T23:02:10Z")
**Mandos** , first off, welcome to the Straight Dope. The Welcome coffee and doughnuts are on the table in the corner (we used to have fresh-baked pastries, but with the budget cuts …) As for your question, it is the equivalent of “how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?” It is not debatable because a debate needs a frame of reference, and your question is essentially whether the frame of reference we perceive exists. We cannot look to facts to determine this question, because all facts are suspect by the terms of the debate (are they “real” or just perceived). What we are left with is opinion. Sua ---
**Author:** ![My\_Darn\_Snake\_Legs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f14d63/32.png) [@My\_Darn\_Snake\_Legs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/My_Darn_Snake_Legs)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2002, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality/100081/6 "2002-03-25T23:05:14Z")
oh please. :rolleyes: By bringing up these questions you make your ontinued existence irrelevant. If you are really a complete skeptic, you have no stake in your own continued existence. Think about it and disappear. Then when you realize that you don’t actually disappear, come back and we can talk some epistemology. –==the sax man==– ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2002, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality/100081/7 "2002-03-25T23:09:47Z")
Does this thread exist? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2002, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality/100081/8 "2002-03-25T23:34:24Z")
> [@](#): > > Think about it and disappear. Then when you realize that you don’t actually disappear, come back and we can talk some epistemology. I knew you were going to say that. ---
**Author:** ![Newton\_meter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/57b2e6/32.png) [@Newton\_meter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Newton_meter)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality/100081/9 "2002-03-26T00:08:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mandos \* > **If a tree falls in the middle of the forest, and there is no one to hear it, is there really any sound?** This question, at least, has an [answer](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a4_236.html). ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality/100081/10 "2002-03-26T00:47:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KellyM \* > \*\*Does this thread exist? \*\* There’s no way to tell. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality/100081/11 "2002-03-26T00:55:38Z")
Anyway; the universe exists - so there. And how do I know that? Well, it exists in the sense that I am able to consistently experience it - I’m looking at the keyboard in front of me, just like you said; yesterday it was a keyboard, the day before also and I think I can be reasonably sure that when I wake tomorrow, it will be a keyboard, not a chicken, not a camel, but a keyboard. So even if there is no keyboard in some bizzare Matrix-brain-in-a-jar-God’s-dream-matter-isn’t-real-it’s-just-blips-in-the-rubber-sheet sense, it is as real as can be from my own frame of reference and by definition I cannot percieve things from anything but my own frame of reference; I’ll be sure to let you know if the keyboard isn’t a keyboard tomorrow though - don’t wait underwater. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality/100081/12 "2002-03-26T01:00:15Z")
Oh, and yes, my memories of it always being a keyboard _could_ have arisen fully-formed last Thursday with no reference to any tangible reality, but let’s not go there. Please. The question is kind of like asking someone “Please verbally describe this spoon, but without using words”. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality/100081/13 "2002-03-26T09:16:04Z")
I know I said I’d report back if it _wasn’t_ a keyboard today, but I thought I’d just let you know that it still is. If reality isn’t real, we’re going to have to find a new name for it. ---
**Author:** ![Mandos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mandos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mandos)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality/100081/14 "2002-03-26T15:10:11Z")
I must admit, that such a debate does have a tendency to go nowhere, but I felt this topic was best placed here. Now, for possible ways to test this. If the world is simply a product of the human mind, then you could defy the laws of physics as they really don’t exist. We know, of course, that if you try to fly out of a building you are likely to fall. However, do you fall because there is a real world somewhere bound by the laws of physics or because those observing you don’t believe you can fly? What would happen if you were alone, out of sight and earshot, and honestly believed you could fly. Could you? What if you convinced everyone that you could, could you then? What if you made everyone believe that someone was dead, would they be able to interact with the world then? For, naturally, such a person would still believe they were alive, but everyone else would see them as a rotting corpse. And so, this person might be trapped within their own separate reality in which they are alive, but unable to interact with the outside world because no one else believe they can. It is quite difficult to determine a way to test this. It is too bad that we can not go back to the days when the Earth was thought to be flat and tried to sail off it. If we could succeed in that, it would prove that the world is effected by what humans believe. So, any suggestions as to how one might test this? ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality/100081/15 "2002-03-26T15:17:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mangetout \* > \*\*The question is kind of like asking someone “Please verbally describe this spoon, but without using words”. \*\* Hang on a sec, I have a five-sided square in my pocket somewhere… or i thought i did … ---
**Author:** ![ChoosyChipsAndCeilingWhacks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c77e96/32.png) [@ChoosyChipsAndCeilingWhacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChoosyChipsAndCeilingWhacks)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reality/100081/16 "2002-03-26T16:29:19Z")
What chair?