# Really Guys? AKA Sexism on the Board **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 6, 2017, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633 "2017-07-06T18:17:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/221 "2017-07-13T14:52:26Z")
When your perspective is that it’s ok to insult women as long as you aren’t mutilating their genitals, then I’m ok with losing it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/222 "2017-07-13T16:39:06Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > No. In places where women suffer the most it is through overt oppression. I.E. the examples I listed. A subtle joke in an online forum is not how you end up on the bottom of the Human Rights Index. > > Loss of perspective is the key phrase here. If somebody posts in defense of female genital mutilation in an SDMB thread, I can assure you their resulting pit thread will be a million times longer and more vituperative than this one. Go back and read the OP. It’s not even phrased angrily; more like frustrated. ---
**Author:** ![Helena330](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/helena330/32/531_2.png) [@Helena330](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helena330)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/223 "2017-07-13T17:07:29Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > When your perspective is that it’s ok to insult women as long as you aren’t mutilating their genitals, then I’m ok with losing it. Perfect. I’ve decided stringbean is a troll and will now be treated as such. DNFTT. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/224 "2017-07-13T17:36:12Z")
Oh shucks. Is this where I grovel to regain your countenance? ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/225 "2017-07-13T17:42:58Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > If somebody posts in defense of female genital mutilation in an SDMB thread, I can assure you their resulting pit thread will be a million times longer and more vituperative than this one. Go back and read the OP. It’s not even phrased angrily; more like frustrated. Oh wait, I’m sorry. I meant to refer to “[female cutting](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/new-york-times-female-genital-mutilation-culturally-loaded-response-a7702221.html),” lest I dare imbue some moral clarity on a practice that scars millions of women. Wouldn’t want to offend anybody. But, please, let’s continue our discussion on the oppressive horrors of a bad internet joke. We have our grounded liberal perspective don’t we? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/226 "2017-07-13T17:44:34Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > Oh wait, I’m sorry. I meant to refer to “[female cutting](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/new-york-times-female-genital-mutilation-culturally-loaded-response-a7702221.html),” lest I dare imbue some moral clarity on a practice that scars millions of women. Wouldn’t want to offend anybody. > > But, please, let’s continue our discussion on the oppressive horrors of a bad internet joke. We have our grounded liberal perspective don’t we? What horrors? Someone didn’t appreciate something and said they didn’t appreciate it. What’s the big deal? Why are you exaggerating everything beyond all recognition? I’ve asked you before and you’ve ignored it. Are you afraid to answer my questions? ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/227 "2017-07-13T18:04:33Z")
I would argue the exaggeration is the suggestion that we are just a couple more jokes away from becoming Saudi Arabia. But I’m just the crazy asshole here who understands that jokes are meant to be offensive - that using humor helps underlie the problem being addressed. For example, I could have easily pivoted **jz78817** ’s “death by a thousand cuts” remark into a joke that if we were living in Somalia, wouldn’t it just be death by one cut? HAHAHA. The point is, defending a joke is not defending the societal issue that underlies the joke. But in this case, there _is_ no societal issue - men don’t claim or own women in the West. But there are places where they do, and this is where the anger should be projected. This is the fundamental loss of perspective. Pitting this joke is like pitting Louis C.K. for joking about how pedophilia must really be awesome if pedophiles are willing to accept the ramifications should they get caught. Is anyone here stupid enough to believe that was actually a defense of pedophilia? So why is this joke different and we all hyperventilate as the outrages spews forth? ---
**Author:** ![JackieLikesVariety](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackielikesvariety/32/296_2.png) [@JackieLikesVariety](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JackieLikesVariety)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/228 "2017-07-13T18:07:39Z")
> [@Helena330](#): > > Perfect. > > I’ve decided stringbean is a troll and will now be treated as such. DNFTT. I’m in. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/229 "2017-07-13T18:15:23Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > I would argue the exaggeration is the suggestion that we are just a couple more jokes away from becoming Saudi Arabia. Who made that suggestion? > [@](#): > > But I’m just the crazy asshole here who understands that jokes are meant to be offensive - that using humor helps underlie the problem being addressed. So you’re saying that it’s always wrong to criticize or object to a joke? Jokes should never be criticized, in your mind, no matter their content? > [@](#): > > For example, I could have easily pivoted **jz78817** ’s “death by a thousand cuts” remark into a joke that if we were living in Somalia, wouldn’t it just be death by one cut? HAHAHA. I don’t even get the joke. Is it about death from infection due to substandard medical care? > [@](#): > > The point is, defending a joke is not defending the societal issue that underlies the joke. But in this case, there _is_ no societal issue - men don’t claim or own women in the West. But there are places where they do, and this is where the anger should be projected. This is the fundamental loss of perspective. Why is it a loss of perspective to object to jokes that objectify women? It’s not a big deal. It takes literally no time or effort away from fighting serious forms of oppression. > [@](#): > > Pitting this joke is like pitting Louis C.K. for joking about how pedophilia must really be awesome if pedophiles are willing to accept the ramifications should they get caught. Is anyone here stupid enough to believe that was actually a defense of pedophilia? So why is this joke different and we all hyperventilate as the outrages spews forth? Who hyperventilated? Who spewed outrage? Considering how often I’ve called you out on this, you’re either deliberately hyperbolically exaggerating (e.g. you’re lying repeatedly and knowingly) or you have no sense of perspective (which would be rather ironic, considering your criticisms). ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/230 "2017-07-13T18:44:30Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Who made that suggestion? **Troutman** who said that the most effective form of oppression of women is subtle jokes. Actually, the most effective form of oppression is **actual oppression**. He expresses a moral ambiguity that beggars belief and I had to call it out. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So you’re saying that it’s always wrong to criticize or object to a joke? Jokes should never be criticized, in your mind, no matter their content? Not at all. You say “joke wasn’t funny” instead of taking the time create a Pit thread and whine that “joke belies the rampant sexism that plagues this board. Cut this shit out.” > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I don’t even get the joke. Is it about death from infection due to substandard medical care? It’s the death of a young girl’s soul after being tied down and having her clitoris cut out. Don’t be coy. You’re supposed to be the feminist. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Why is it a loss of perspective to object to jokes that objectify women? It’s not a big deal. It takes literally no time or effort away from fighting serious forms of oppression. The loss of perspective is to suggest that this belies a real problem of patriarchal ownership of women’s bodies. That problem doesn’t exist, in the West. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Who hyperventilated? Who spewed outrage? Considering how often I’ve called you out on this, you’re either deliberately hyperbolically exaggerating (e.g. you’re lying repeatedly and knowingly) or you have no sense of perspective (which would be rather ironic, considering your criticisms). Taking the time to create a pit thread and then declaring with authority to “cut this shit out” is not the reasonable response to a mediocre joke on the internet. And, of course, broadening this out as an indication that sexism is still rampant on this board is simple hyperbole. That perspective is _wrong_. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/231 "2017-07-13T19:08:15Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > **Troutman** who said that the most effective form of oppression of women is subtle jokes. Actually, the most effective form of oppression is **actual oppression**. He expresses a moral ambiguity that beggars belief and I had to call it out. Where did **TroutMan** say this? I couldn’t find it. > [@](#): > > Not at all. You say “joke wasn’t funny” instead of taking the time create a Pit thread and whine that “joke belies the rampant sexism that plagues this board. Cut this shit out.” What about whining about someone creating a pit thread to criticize a joke? You’re whining just as much or more than any other poster in this thread. What about taking a minute to write a thoughtful criticism of objectifying women, even in jokes, bothers you? It really isn’t a big deal, except perhaps in your mind. > [@](#): > > It’s the death of a young girl’s soul after being tied down and having her clitoris cut out. Don’t be coy. You’re supposed to be the feminist. Maybe it was just a lousy joke. > [@](#): > > The loss of perspective is to suggest that this belies a real problem of patriarchal ownership of women’s bodies. That problem doesn’t exist, in the West. Doesn’t exist at all? Or do you mean it’s just a bigger problem elsewhere? 'Cause I’ve certainly seen and heard about it in the West. Things have certainly improved greatly, but sexism and oppression and “ownership of women’s bodies” still exists in some forms in some facets of Western culture and society. But even if it did, even if this is just very tiny thing, it’s still no big deal to call it out. It’s okay to call out tiny things that one thinks are nonetheless bad. It’s entirely reasonable to do so. Any overreaction comes from hyperbolic exaggerations like yours, not from calmly explaining why one thinks a joke is inappropriate. > [@](#): > > Taking the time to create a pit thread and then declaring with authority to “cut this shit out” is not the reasonable response to a mediocre joke on the internet. And, of course, broadening this out as an indication that sexism is still rampant on this board is simple hyperbole. That perspective is _wrong_. Your perspective, in which you used words like “outrage” and “hyperventilated” and “horrors”, is wrong. Much wronger than anything in the OP, which was just a pretty calm criticism of a joke she found inappropriate. Once again it’s okay to say “that thing is bad”, even if it’s not a huge deal. It really is okay to put 5 minutes of thought into explaining why. These things are okay. Calm criticism of small things is okay and doesn’t hurt anyone. When the small things are bad, even if it’s just a little bit bad, it might even help, in that tiny way that being a decent person helps, make the world a better place. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/232 "2017-07-13T23:35:27Z")
I’ve answered your questions and responded to every criticism leveled against me in this thread. It appears to be a matter of simple disagreement at this point whether this pitting was necessary. The difference is, I didn’t call you or anyone else an asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/233 "2017-07-13T23:54:32Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > I’ve answered your questions and responded to every criticism leveled against me in this thread. It appears to be a matter of simple disagreement at this point whether this pitting was necessary. > > The difference is, I didn’t call you or anyone else an asshole. I’ll bet you don’t call ice “hot” either. ---
**Author:** ![Tee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/234 "2017-07-13T23:59:11Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > I’ve answered your questions and responded to every criticism leveled against me in this thread. It appears to be a matter of simple disagreement at this point whether this pitting was necessary. > > The difference is, I didn’t call you or anyone else an asshole. No, you just made ridiculous assumptions about the OP, questioned her mental balance and functioning, and attention-whored yourself into a starring role in her thread. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/235 "2017-07-14T00:24:13Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > I’ve answered your questions and responded to every criticism leveled against me in this thread. It appears to be a matter of simple disagreement at this point whether this pitting was necessary. > > The difference is, I didn’t call you or anyone else an asshole. You called a bunch of people making reasonable posts “hysterical”, “outraged”, or other nonsense. You’ve dodged most of my questions. Maybe you were being an asshole. Not a big deal. Most people are assholes at some point – I know I’ve been an asshole before. Presumably you’d prefer not to be – or maybe you don’t care. If you’d prefer not to be an asshole, I’m sure Dopers would be happy to help. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2017, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/236 "2017-07-15T20:41:07Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > **Rittersport** Yes, that’s the point. If I’m offended by something you say, I consider if it’s worth mentioning or not. If so, then I tell you. You hear me out, then decide if you’re going to apologize, file the information away, or, as in the case elsewhere on this thread, double down. > > If you decide you can see my point of view, and you say, “sorry won’t do that again”, then boom, apology accepted. This is actually incredibly useful information going forward from today, for every single Doper registered who posts here. Including myself, of course. It’s a fairly long-winded way of saying, " Fuck your 1st Amendment. I will decide what is or is not offensive. Apologize or else. " Who knew? Boy. Talk about your Ignorance Being Fought™. Also, a mighty clean strike to the heart of satire. Not to mention double entendre and word play in general. You know- some things that thinking mature adults think and write sometimes. By gum, we’ll get those fucking word-users under our thumb if it’s the very last thing we do, right? Can I ask for a bit of a litmus test here? I’m kind of curious. Is the following query and reply within your limits of acceptable or is the following exchange the kind of thing you would be disgusted by and would take here to The Pit? " I think my roommate is having sex with his cats. Could you explain the biological reasons why cats can’t be impregnated by human beings? — T.S., Chicago Cecil replies: For the same reason you can’t park a Cadillac in a closet, you bozo. " ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2017, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/237 "2017-07-15T20:43:46Z")
> [@](#): > > It’s a fairly long-winded way of saying, " Fuck your 1st Amendment. I will decide what is or is not offensive. Apologize or else. " yay, I get to use this again! > **[Free Speech](https://xkcd.com/1357/)** > > I can't remember where I heard this, but someone once said that defending a position by citing free speech is sort of the ultimate concession; you're saying that the most compelling thing you can say for your position is that it's not literally illegal to express. eta: for those who don’t see the alt-text behind the image, Munroe wrote: “I can’t remember where I heard this, but someone once said that defending a position by citing free speech is sort of the ultimate concession; you’re saying that the most compelling thing you can say for your position is that it’s not literally illegal to express.” ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2017, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/238 "2017-07-15T20:57:11Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > It’s a fairly long-winded way of saying, " Fuck your 1st Amendment. I will decide what is or is not offensive. It seems you don’t have any rational idea of what words are for or what the First Amendment is for. Hint: the First Amendment doesn’t exist to prevent people from hearing your words, deciding you’re an asshole, and treating you accordingly. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2017, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/239 "2017-07-15T21:08:47Z")
Right. It guarantees Free Speech. ( yes, yes, I know- SDMB is a privately owned message board. Still, the rules as applied year to year allow for free speech. ) ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2017, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/240 "2017-07-15T21:15:10Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > yay, I get to use this again! > > [xkcd: Free Speech](https://xkcd.com/1357/) > > eta: for those who don’t see the alt-text behind the image, Munroe wrote: “I can’t remember where I heard this, but someone once said that defending a position by citing free speech is sort of the ultimate concession; you’re saying that the most compelling thing you can say for your position is that it’s not literally illegal to express.” Zakly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633.md?page=13)