# Really Guys? AKA Sexism on the Board **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 6, 2017, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633 "2017-07-06T18:17:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/261 "2017-07-16T13:02:24Z")
[quote=“Cartooniverse, post:244, topic:790633”] Absolutely. The quote in my post up there from our delicate flower **SunnyDaze** struck me as haughty in the extreme. We are supposed to make sure she’s not wounded by our posts, or if so apologize?/QUOTE] has no one in your life ever told you that something you said to or about them was not cool? And you’ve never stopped to think “maybe I shouldn’t have said that?” ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/262 "2017-07-16T14:04:16Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > +1. > > This reminds me of an argument I got in with a friend the other day. I said there were certain works of literature I couldn’t stand because of the obvious bigotry of the author. I didn’t even make a categorical statement, I just said, ‘‘Sometimes it bothers me, sometimes it doesn’t, depends on the context.’’ > > He was like, ‘‘Well, we’re writers, it’s no big deal, I can read anything, I can read about an island full of women who hate men, and I’m not offended.’’ > > I suggested to it him that it’s a tad different if you’re looking into some fresh new perspective on a lark, but in my situation it’s more like I’m bombarded with negative stereotypes of my own gender and live with those social consequences, to some extent, every day of my life, so fuck wasting my time with some writer who clearly doesn’t respect me. > > But his response was, ‘‘Your philosophy is what led to Fahrenheit 451\*\*.’’ I just told Asimovian to stop being such a dick. ---
**Author:** ![Not\_Carlson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc79bd/32.png) [@Not\_Carlson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Not_Carlson)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/263 "2017-07-17T06:21:08Z")
The poll results of the parent thread in IMHO suggest this is a very male-dominated board. Some of the comments posted in response to **Sunny Daze** ’s well-deserved ire imply to me that this is an imbalance we will never correct so long as we don’t get our collective shit together. **Morgenstern** : “Not gonna happen. . . .You were whooshed. . . Take a flying fuck at the moon!” **Bobo lesinger** : [Banned. ‘Nuff said.] **Rick Sanchez** : “Schoolmarmish humourlessness . . .” [“Schoolmarmish!?” Also banned. Finally.] **Emcee2k** : “I’m offended!” **Clairobscur** : “[How can we possibly be expected to fix this behavior when there are so many more important issues in the world?]” **TriPolar** : “. . . some humor that failed. . . You really can’t expect too much . . .” [Well-intentioned placation?] **Strinbean** : [Stringbean] **Jimmy Chitwood** : “It’s magical thinking to think otherwise [ie, let’s not be quite so prejudiced against bigots, m’kay?]” \*\*Yezlles \*\*-\> **covfefe** : “[something about rape and hyperbole covfefe . . . ?]” **Octopus** : “‘Mansplaining’ used non ironically in a thread about the evils of non human sexists is precious.” [Octopus is offended because he thought this was a pitting of cephalopod sexists?] **Cartooniverse** : “1st Amendment . . Free Speech [gives me the right to be an arsehole]!” (“Really guys?” = an attack on free speech? Blimey.) **Kayaker** : [\*Actually came around to apologizing! \* Props.] [Honorable raised eyebrow to \*\*Richard Parker \*\*for an excessively cerebral explanation of why the frustration of female Dopers is actually counterproductive.] > [@Dangerosa](#): > > And we wonder why there are so few female posters left on the board. Indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Covfefe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee7513/32.png) [@Covfefe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covfefe)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/264 "2017-07-17T07:09:41Z")
> [@Not\_Carlson](#): > > The poll results of the parent thread in IMHO suggest this is a very male-dominated board. > Some of the comments posted in response to **Sunny Daze** ’s well-deserved ire imply to me that this is an imbalance we will never correct so long as we don’t get our collective shit together. > > **Morgenstern** : “Not gonna happen. . . .You were whooshed. . . Take a flying fuck at the moon!” > **Bobo lesinger** : [Banned. ‘Nuff said.] > **Rick Sanchez** : “Schoolmarmish humourlessness . . .” [“Schoolmarmish!?” Also banned. Finally.] > **Emcee2k** : “I’m offended!” > **Clairobscur** : “[How can we possibly be expected to fix this behavior when there are so many more important issues in the world?]” > **TriPolar** : “. . . some humor that failed. . . You really can’t expect too much . . .” [Well-intentioned placation?] > **Strinbean** : [Stringbean] > **Jimmy Chitwood** : “It’s magical thinking to think otherwise [ie, let’s not be quite so prejudiced against bigots, m’kay?]” > \*\*Yezlles \*\*-\> **covfefe** : “[something about rape and hyperbole covfefe . . . ?]” > **Octopus** : “‘Mansplaining’ used non ironically in a thread about the evils of non human sexists is precious.” [Octopus is offended because he thought this was a pitting of cephalopod sexists?] > **Cartooniverse** : “1st Amendment . . Free Speech [gives me the right to be an arsehole]!” (“Really guys?” = an attack on free speech? Blimey.) > > **Kayaker** : [\*Actually came around to apologizing! \* Props.] > > [Honorable raised eyebrow to \*\*Richard Parker \*\*for an excessively cerebral explanation of why the frustration of female Dopers is actually counterproductive.] Sorry you feel that way. I felt throughout this exchange **Sunny Daze** ’s posts were reasonable starting with the initial post in the thread (which came across as calm and measured compared to many that overall get started in the Pit!). I didn’t think some of **Merneith** ’s rhetoric was reasonable, is all, and strange it would be defended as Pit ranting yet I can’t make the same excuse. Can I please have an honorable raised eyebrow or two instead? ---
**Author:** ![Covfefe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee7513/32.png) [@Covfefe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covfefe)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/265 "2017-07-17T07:25:27Z")
And out of respect to the OP I did make sure to wait until the situation with **kayaker** and **Morgenstern** had been resolved before I made a sensationalistic post like that. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/266 "2017-07-17T07:32:15Z")
> [@Covfefe](#): > > Sorry you feel that way. I felt throughout this exchange **Sunny Daze** ’s posts were reasonable starting with the initial post in the thread (which came across as calm and measured compared to many > that overall get started in the Pit!). I didn’t think some of **Merneith** ’s rhetoric was reasonable, is all, and strange it would be defended as Pit ranting yet I can’t make the same excuse. Can I please have an honorable raised eyebrow or two instead? Troll and/or sock. ---
**Author:** ![emcee2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@emcee2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emcee2k)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/267 "2017-07-17T10:30:08Z")
> [@Not\_Carlson](#): > > **Emcee2k** : “I’m offended!” Please explain what it is about what I posted in this thread that supposedly chasing woman away from this board. ---
**Author:** ![Not\_Carlson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc79bd/32.png) [@Not\_Carlson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Not_Carlson)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/268 "2017-07-17T11:45:42Z")
> [@emcee2k](#): > > Please explain what it is about what I posted in this thread that supposedly chasing woman away from this board. Honestly, I have no idea whether your protestation of offence is driving women from this board, but in a thread where a very understandable, yet admirably restrained call for less misogynistic behavior on a male-dominated board is met with comments such as “take a flying fuck at the moon”, I certainly can’t imagine that your bleating about the perceived offensiveness of an ironic term such as “bro-flakes” is presenting a welcoming environment for women posters. (_ **Pause for breath** _) So, maybe put your sense of offence into perspective before venting it? ---
**Author:** ![Not\_Carlson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc79bd/32.png) [@Not\_Carlson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Not_Carlson)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/269 "2017-07-17T12:01:48Z")
> [@Covfefe](#): > > Sorry you feel that way. I felt throughout this exchange **Sunny Daze** ’s posts were reasonable starting with the initial post in the thread (which came across as calm and measured compared to many > that overall get started in the Pit!). I didn’t think some of **Merneith** ’s rhetoric was reasonable, is all, and strange it would be defended as Pit ranting yet I can’t make the same excuse. Can I please have an honorable raised eyebrow or two instead? In light of \*\*madsircool’s \*\*comment, I’m not sure but that maybe I should be giving you a raised Muppet eyebrow. (Think Herry Monster.) But leaving that aside, I really don’t know what to make of your contribution, other than that your “hyperbole . . . rape . . . power . . . in defense of rationalism” moralizing is not particularly helpful in view of the context of discussion. Time, place and manner. You stuffed ‘em all up and now you’re wearing a Halloween costume at a board meeting. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/270 "2017-07-17T12:21:27Z")
Richard Parker and Jimmy Chitwood are two of my favorite posters. I found their posts in this thread eminently reasonable, and I always find them worth listening to and engaging with even when I don’t agree with everything they say. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/271 "2017-07-17T14:22:33Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > This is actually incredibly useful information going forward from today, for every single Doper registered who posts here. Including myself, of course. > > It’s a fairly long-winded way of saying, " Fuck your 1st Amendment. I will decide what is or is not offensive. Apologize or else. "… I think you badly misread my interaction with **Sunny Daze**. I wouldn’t have thought the original joke was offensive, so I could imagine making some similar comment. However, I try and not be an asshole, so when she said she was offended, had I made the original joke, I would have apologized. Not because she’s shutting down my speech, just because I don’t want to be an asshole and I’d like to know if I have inadvertently offended someone so I can apologize and endeavor not to do it again. She can’t shut down my speech – this isn’t North Korea (wait, is this North Korea?) and she’s probably not Kim Jong Un anyway. However, I can stop my own speech if I have accidentally offended someone. There may be times that I would like to offend someone on purpose, like calling you a over-sensitive snowflake poopyhead. I probably wouldn’t apologize for that. ---
**Author:** ![Not\_Carlson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc79bd/32.png) [@Not\_Carlson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Not_Carlson)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/272 "2017-07-17T14:55:20Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Richard Parker and Jimmy Chitwood are two of my favorite posters. I found their posts in this thread eminently reasonable, and I always find them worth listening to and engaging with even when I don’t agree with everything they say. That’s an admirable defense of two chaps who probably didn’t deserve a place on my tut-tut list. I too have enjoyed several of \*\*Richard’s \*\*posts —sorry **Jimmy** , I’m sure I’ve enjoyed several of your contributions too, but I have a very fuzzy memory (think Elmo)— and I think both posters’ efforts in this thread present them as very reasonable-minded and intelligent people. Assets to this board, to be sure. Heck, I even agree with some of the suggestions they’re making. However, I felt their contributions in this thread, though well-intentioned I’m sure, to be counter-productive given the topic and context. **Jimmy Chitwood** even acknowledged that his argument sounds a lot like a “not all men” argument. Props for self-awareness, but if you can see the similarity then why not just steer clear of it? Especially in a thread with actual sexists dropping deuces in it. I’ve screwed my nose up at some pretty chauvinistic comments and behavior on this board several times, yet mostly passed them by without remark. I often wonder how such comments might be taken by the female members of our community, and **Sunny Daze** has offered a clear perspective there. ---
**Author:** ![Modesty\_Blaise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Modesty\_Blaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Modesty_Blaise)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/273 "2017-07-17T16:10:54Z")
> [@Not\_Carlson](#): > > I’ve screwed my nose up at some pretty chauvinistic comments and behavior on this board several times, yet mostly passed them by without remark. I often wonder how such comments might be taken by the female members of our community, and **Sunny Daze** has offered a clear perspective there. Can I make a suggestion? Don’t pass them by, say something. I don’t post much (hardly at all) mostly because my pants aren’t as smarty as most posters here, not because I think there’s much sexism. But it really helps if sexism is called out by men as well as women. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/274 "2017-07-17T18:28:21Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > By gum, we’ll get those fucking word-users under our thumb if it’s the very last thing we do, right? Don’t worry. The coming speech-Nazi uprising clearly won’t affect you since everything you post is gibberish. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/275 "2017-07-17T20:25:42Z")
Free speech is like the 2nd amendment. It is but it shouldn’t be. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/276 "2017-07-17T20:36:22Z")
This thread really has become its own kind of Turing test. ---
**Author:** ![emcee2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@emcee2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emcee2k)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/277 "2017-07-18T00:06:30Z")
> [@Not\_Carlson](#): > > So, maybe put your sense of offence into perspective before venting it? Really, if the only female posters I’m driving away are those who can’t be bothered to read every post for comprehension, then good riddance. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/278 "2017-07-18T00:16:27Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > Now, I offer this because, believe it or not, I am masterful when it comes to interacting with women in professional settings. Because I am articulate, insightful, and honest. And most of all because I understand decorum and how to present myself as effectively as possible without seeming arrogant or pompous. > > I come here to speak the truths that polite society doesn’t afford me and do so fairly liberally when I see something that simply strains credibility. I can’t truly believe that a joke about sharing women in a Gilligan’s Island type scenario renders the balanced adult apoplectic. **On the internet.** So you understand that you are offensive but you’re capable of faking it when the consequences of being offensive would interfere with your self-interest. Then you go online and let your inner asshole run free. Because you won’t suffer any consequences for offending people on an anonymous message board. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/279 "2017-07-18T00:22:03Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > I don’t know. I’m supposed to be this really terrible person according to everyone here, but it just doesn’t feel appropriate. I’ve never had anyone tell me I’m a bad person in real life. Wake up. This is real life. The reason people are telling you this here and not in person is because, by your own admission, you hide all this stuff when you’re interacting with people face to face. Those people aren’t interacting with the real you; they’re interacting with the fake persona you’ve created for them. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/280 "2017-07-18T00:40:30Z")
> [@emcee2k](#): > > Of course I am. Specifically, I’m mocking the idea in post #61 that any time someone is or claims to be offended, they’re in the right, and everyone should modify their speech and behavior to suit them. Different situations are different. Sometimes it’s completely reasonable to be offended, other times it’s appropriate for others to suggest that maybe they _shouldn’t_ be offended. That’s instead of turning the sentence “I find that offensive” into some sort of incantation that can be recited to prevent someone from ever using a word or phrase again. > > What I didn’t expect when I posted that was for anyone to be completely perplexed as to why I might find a gendered insult offensive even if it wasn’t directed at me. You wouldn’t say to a black person, “Well, I wasn’t calling _you_ a nigger”. And yes, the word “bro-flake” (or “bro-magnum”), is very different from the word nigger for a lot of reasons. But that’s exactly my point. Different situations are different. No. That’s the point. You have no right to tell anyone that they shouldn’t be offended. You are not all knowing, so you have no way to know if the person should or should not be offended. You can ask them why they are offended. And you can explain a less offensive interpretation. But you can’t tell them they are wrong to be offended. You will just be seen as an asshole. And you admit you were mocking, which means you weren’t actually offended. You were just feigning offense when it really didn’t bother you. That was exactly why I tested you, to see if you were just playing a game or if you were genuinely offended. If you were genuinely offended, then I would have explored why you found it offensive. I would have explained that “bro” is not a gendered insult as much as it is a description of a specific type of culture. It comes from the idea of fraternity brothers. I would have never said you were wrong to be offended. I would have listened and taken into account whether bro culture memes come off as offensive, and, while I might not stop saying it at all, I would be careful around you and aware that other people might find it offensive. As is, you are not offended, so I have no reason to give a shit, bro. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633.md?page=15)