# Really Guys? AKA Sexism on the Board **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 6, 2017, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633 "2017-07-06T18:17:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2017, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/81 "2017-07-06T23:48:25Z")
> [@steatopygia](#): > > I’m not “refusing to accept that”… Ok. \*\*Merneith \*\*doesn’t, which was my point. > [@steatopygia](#): > > You described this calm explanation as “moral outrage” and “shaming”. I obviously disagree with your read of the post, and it’s description of “whining” and claim that I’m defending the wrong people and therefore somehow complicit. But that aside, my point is a simple one: assuming by default that all bigots are knowing and intentional bigots is both wrong and actively harmful to the cause of reducing bigotry. If you agree, I’m glad. As should be obvious, this does not mean that no bigot has bad intentions. Lots do. ---
**Author:** ![steatopygia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steatopygia/32/3132_2.png) [@steatopygia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steatopygia)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/82 "2017-07-07T00:02:19Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Ok. \*\*Merneith \*\*doesn’t, which was my point. > > I obviously disagree with your read of the post, and it’s description of “whining” and claim that I’m defending the wrong people and therefore somehow complicit. > > But that aside, my point is a simple one: assuming by default that all bigots are knowing and intentional bigots is both wrong and actively harmful to the cause of reducing bigotry. If you agree, I’m glad. As should be obvious, this does not mean that no bigot has bad intentions. Lots do. I’m going to end my participation in this branch of the thread by saying, I’m not closely following your logic. Since this is the pit, I’ll postulate some sort of marijuana use influencing somebody.😃 I do agree that " assuming by default that all bigots are knowing and intentional bigots is both wrong and actively harmful to the cause of reducing bigotry." ---
**Author:** ![JackieLikesVariety](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackielikesvariety/32/296_2.png) [@JackieLikesVariety](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JackieLikesVariety)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/83 "2017-07-07T00:03:06Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > ^ I like that: “bro-flakes”. Mind if I use it? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/84 "2017-07-07T00:10:02Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > My point is a simple one: assuming by default that all bigots are knowing and intentional bigots is both wrong and actively harmful to the cause of reducing bigotry. If you agree, I’m glad. As should be obvious, this does not mean that no bigot has bad intentions. Lots do. This. I think there are enough people like **[RitterSport](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20327971&postcount=50)** who didn’t stop to think that jokes like this might be offensive. It’s one of the products of living in a sexist society. Immediately describing people like that as “going out of their way to reinforce the societal attitude that women are objects whose only worth is the enjoyment men get from them” is going to raise all their defensive barriers. Taking the approach of **Sunny Daze** and calmly explaining why it’s offensive is perfect. The person can then say “you know what, you’re right. I hadn’t thought about it that way,” which is the ideal outcome (thumbs up, **RS** ). They might consider it and decide “I personally don’t understand the offensiveness, but I recognize that others see it differently so I will refrain from that behavior.” That’s at least progress. Or they can double down on their jerkitude. And the nice thing is that if you start out assuming the best, you don’t have to worry about being wrong for long because they will quickly show you the error in your assumption. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/85 "2017-07-07T00:11:49Z")
> [@Are you a male or a female?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-male-or-a-female/790451/52): > > [del]_There’s \* the little girl![/del] Sorry. It was a joke_\*\*\*\* meant to belittle the stereotypic view once held by males in society. Things are largely different today. > > \*\*\*\*\* Expected response to a joke is laughter. The joke teller hopes the audience “gets it” and is entertained. This leads to the premise that a joke is actually an “understanding test” between individuals and groups. If the listeners do not get the joke, they are not understanding the two scripts which are contained in the narrative as they were intended. Or they do “get it” and don’t laugh; it might be too obscene, too gross or too dumb for the current audience. A woman might respond differently to a joke told by a male colleague around the water cooler than she would to the same joke overheard in a women’s lavatory. A joke involving toilet humour may be funnier told on the playground at elementary school than on a college campus. The same joke will elicit different responses in different settings. The punchline in the joke remains the same, however it is more or less appropriate depending on the current context. That is some seriously condescending shit. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/86 "2017-07-07T00:22:30Z")
Honestly, I’m not surprised. We have many hardcore conservatives who post here. I just assumed that a not insignificant number of them would be really sexist. Then you add in the necessarily non zero number of liberal sexists, and, well… ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/87 "2017-07-07T00:25:14Z")
Does the Pope golf? ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/88 "2017-07-07T00:31:11Z")
This has been illuminating. Not that i thought that sexism was a thing of the past on this board, but to see such pride in acting like a jerk is eye opening. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/89 "2017-07-07T00:53:32Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > We have many hardcore conservatives who post here. :dubious: We have a handful of hardcore conservatives posting here IMHO, who stand out because, well, they stand out ;). As boards go this one consists overwhelmingly of U.S.-defined middle-of-the-road liberals, with relatively few full-on left radicals of anarchist or communist persuasion. I might conceed a moderate-sized minority of libertarianish-types, but even most of them seem to be social moderates/liberals. I think there are probably more former-moderate Republicans here than hardcore conservatives. Of course your definition of _hardcore conservative_ may vary. For example I don’t consider non-social conservatives to be very hardcore. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/90 "2017-07-07T02:06:51Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > And we wonder why there are so few female posters left on the board. Unfortunately, we’ve lost quite a few wonderful people because of the sexism. I can see why. It gets tiring, and I would very well imagine that would be so much more so for the women. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/91 "2017-07-07T02:17:24Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Honestly, I’m not surprised. We have many hardcore conservatives who post here. I just assumed that a not insignificant number of them would be really sexist. Then you add in the necessarily non zero number of liberal sexists, and, well… Does “many” mean “numbered in the double digits?” ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/92 "2017-07-07T03:04:59Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > First up - **Projammer** I want a trophy for starting a non-Trump Pit thread. > > Onwards to the Pitting > > In this recent [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=20323103#post20323103) on the gender breakdown of members on the Dope, we find this sterling interchange. A lovely little joke about how there aren’t enough ladies to go around, so the men will have to double up. > > I stated in the thread that it was offensive, to me at least. > > I got this dismissive post back from **Kayaker**. I am a “little girl”, who just didn’t get his joke. Maybe I would have if it was just us women here, or something. A classic non-apology apology. > > Pro-tip: the “apology” would have gone further if you’d left off the snarky deleted “little girl” nonsense. > > Here it is. Sexism alive and well on the Board, not that we wondered. Would it kill you guys to think a minute before you hit that “post” button? > > FTR - I like these Posters. I don’t like this content. Cut this shit out. I’m right there w/ you, **Sunny Daze**. I’ve been fighting against it here my entire tenure and while the milder sexism has waned, the hardcore he-man womanhaters have seemed to double down. They truly believe women are beneath them and they disgust me. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/93 "2017-07-07T03:33:18Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > bro-flakes. Bro-Magnon? Never seen that one before, so I’ll claim sheer brilliance and henceforth release it into the public domain, free of copyright tut-tuts. ETA: damn google - shoulda looked at it first. ok let’s say I’ve never come across bro-magnon before, then. Still obscure as fuck, though, those google entries. ---
**Author:** ![Helena330](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/helena330/32/531_2.png) [@Helena330](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helena330)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/94 "2017-07-07T04:15:25Z")
> [@Rick\_Sanchez](#): > > Schoolmarmish humourlessness is also alive and well, clearly. Yay, a new name for the Asshole List. The sexism wears on me and I tend to avoid threads where I figure it will crop up. But you know what, misogynist creeps? This little woman isn’t going anywhere and if I see it I’ll call you on it. Plus there are a lot of really great men here who get it. You’re appreciated! ---
**Author:** ![emcee2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@emcee2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emcee2k)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/95 "2017-07-07T04:17:32Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > ^ I like that: “bro-flakes”. Mind if I use it? I find that offensive. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/96 "2017-07-07T04:28:07Z")
I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to cause offense. I’ll do my best not to use it in your presence again. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/97 "2017-07-07T05:07:02Z")
Hey, **kayaker**. I know you read my posts, (as I apparently set you up for a lot of jokes) so I’d like to offer advice. Sure, I get it. You intended the joke to be pro-feminist. You were making fun of the attitude you were expressing. Unfortunately, it just came off badly. So just say that. Don’t act like me when I get pissed off. Notice how badly that’s gone. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/98 "2017-07-07T05:20:04Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > But that aside, my point is a simple one: assuming by default that all bigots are knowing and intentional bigots is both wrong and actively harmful to the cause of reducing bigotry. If you agree, I’m glad. As should be obvious, this does not mean that no bigot has bad intentions. Lots do. That’s obviously true, and you are right to argue against that message in **Merneith** ’s posts. That said, I do think there is something important in there. There really is an instinct to make excuses for the person who says bigoted things. There is this attitude where, because he didn’t really mean it, it’s not really sexist/racist/whatever. I personally argue that there is a benefit of a doubt given, but that applies only to explaining why it is offensive, and giving them a chance to apologize (even if they don’t agree). But that, if you double down, you lose a lot of that. Similarly, if you try and downplay it. And the more you do it, the worse that becomes. At this point, I’m quite ready to say that **Morgenstern** has lost all benefit of the doubt, barring some huge apology and explanation. And I could see why **Merneith** could interpret your posts as defending **Morgenstern** , when, at this point, that ship has sailed. There does have to be a point where you cut your losses, and realize that, at this point in time, you aren’t going to convince this person, and you might as well just right them off as a bigot. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/99 "2017-07-07T05:22:51Z")
> [@emcee2k](#): > > I find that offensive. I don’t. And I am a straight white cisgender male. May I ask what you find offensive about it? I do agree it is an insult to the people it is applied to, but that’s not usually what we mean by “offensive.” There has to be something more that offends those it is not applied to. ---
**Author:** ![emcee2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@emcee2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emcee2k)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/100 "2017-07-07T05:33:11Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I don’t. And I am a straight white cisgender male. May I ask what you find offensive about it? > > I do agree it is an insult to the people it is applied to, but that’s not usually what we mean by “offensive.” There has to be something more that offends those it is not applied to. I hope you’re not trying to tell me why I shouldn’t be offended. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633.md?page=6)