# Really Guys? AKA Sexism on the Board **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 6, 2017, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633 "2017-07-06T18:17:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/101 "2017-07-07T08:01:57Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Me thinks you were whooshed quite bad here, by several of us. So basically you’re saying, “I’m not making sexist jokes, I’m parodying people who make sexist jokes, by making exactly the sort of sexist jokes they would make!” Is that it? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/102 "2017-07-07T09:02:54Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Depending on your upbringing and background, it often takes conscious work and reflection not to engage in these behaviors by mindless default. If you’re not trying to do that work, you deserve criticism. Each of us has a bazillion personal issues we need to reflect on or work on. Our relatives, our friends, our coworkers, our fellow citizens have bazillion of issues we could help with. There are many bazillions of other issues to reflect on and work on in the world at large. And generally speaking we like to have free time not spent reflecting on or working on issues. You can’t demand that everybody spend his time reprogramming himself on whatever issue you personnally think is important. How long have you spent today reflecting on and working on how your behaviour impacts work conditions in the developing world, for instance? How many changes have you decided to implement in your lifestyle to help with this very serious issue, this morning? How much time have you devoted to the issue of overfishing yesterday? How many hours have you spent last week wondering if your “mindless default” about, say, interactions with elderly people or meat consumption didn’t need reviewing? What was the last ten jokes that made you laugh, and how long have you spent wondering if they could be offensive for someone? Who were they mocking and do you feel ashamed for laughing at these jokes, at the expense of whatever group they were targeting? Do you have any fun, ever? If so, how do you justify wasting this time instead of reflecting upon and working on changing yourself, your learned behaviours, your “mindless defaults”, your mindset, your view of the world, your assupmtions, your beliefs, in order to improve life experience for everybody else? Because I’m pretty certain there’s an essentially endless list of things you could change in yourself that would benefit others. And of course, “if you’re not trying to do that work, you deserve criticism”. For all the issues you’re not working on right now. Every single one of them. You must feel terrible. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/103 "2017-07-07T10:39:32Z")
> [@emcee2k](#): > > I hope you’re not trying to tell me why I shouldn’t be offended. I don’t read it that way. I believe he is honestly trying to learn something. I, also, would appreciate it if you could unpack what you find offensive about it. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/104 "2017-07-07T10:55:18Z")
> [@emcee2k](#): > > I hope you’re not trying to tell me why I shouldn’t be offended. And I hope you’re not just mocking the concept. Do you have any real reason to be offended? Or is this just parody? ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/105 "2017-07-07T11:03:07Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Each of us has a bazillion personal issues we need to reflect on or work on. Our relatives, our friends, our coworkers, our fellow citizens have bazillion of issues we could help with. There are many bazillions of other issues to reflect on and work on in the world at large. And generally speaking we like to have free time not spent reflecting on or working on issues. You can’t demand that everybody spend his time reprogramming himself on whatever issue you personnally think is important. > > How long have you spent today reflecting on and working on how your behaviour impacts work conditions in the developing world, for instance? How many changes have you decided to implement in your lifestyle to help with this very serious issue, this morning? How much time have you devoted to the issue of overfishing yesterday? How many hours have you spent last week wondering if your “mindless default” about, say, interactions with elderly people or meat consumption didn’t need reviewing? What was the last ten jokes that made you laugh, and how long have you spent wondering if they could be offensive for someone? Who were they mocking and do you feel ashamed for laughing at these jokes, at the expense of whatever group they were targeting? > > Do you have any fun, ever? If so, how do you justify wasting this time instead of reflecting upon and working on changing yourself, your learned behaviours, your “mindless defaults”, your mindset, your view of the world, your assupmtions, your beliefs, in order to improve life experience for everybody else? Because I’m pretty certain there’s an essentially endless list of things you could change in yourself that would benefit others. > > And of course, “if you’re not trying to do that work, you deserve criticism”. For all the issues you’re not working on right now. Every single one of them. You must feel terrible. Why should I tidy my room when the world is SUCH A MESS?! ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/106 "2017-07-07T11:30:41Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Each of us has a bazillion personal issues we need to reflect on or work on. Our relatives, our friends, our coworkers, our fellow citizens have bazillion of issues we could help with. There are many bazillions of other issues to reflect on and work on in the world at large. And generally speaking we like to have free time not spent reflecting on or working on issues. You can’t demand that everybody spend his time reprogramming himself on whatever issue you personnally think is important. You’re making this much bigger than it actually is. The amount of effort is relatively small. For most people, all you need to do is listen when someone tells you that something offends them. Listen to why, and then, next time, spend a few extra seconds to avoid doing that thing, or making it clear you aren’t doing that thing. Over time, this just becomes a habit. It’s how we learned social skills in the first place, really. You’d say something rude, and people would tell you it was rude and why (usually your parents). Kids learn this, but still have plenty of time to have fun, even with a full time job (school). And I will remind you that this is not about some pet issue. Sexism is a form of bigotry, and bigotry is wrong. We all know this–it’s why being told we’re being sexist hurts our feelings, and makes us defensive. We get that we don’t want people to mistreat us, so we try not to mistreat others. And, when we fail, it upsets us. But you spend far more time coming up with excuses for why you don’t need to change than you would just trying to be decent and not offend people unnecessarily. Which do you think took more time, **Morgenstern** saying “I’m sorry. I was making a joke about sexism, and was not trying to come off as sexist myself. I didn’t mean to offend.” Or all the defense they are drumming up? And that’s just the short term. In the long term, it seems obvious to me that getting along with people is less work than always getting into fights with them. It only makes sense to fight on issues that really matter. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/107 "2017-07-07T11:44:39Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Hey, **kayaker**. I know you read my posts, (as I apparently set you up for a lot of jokes) so I’d like to offer advice. Sure, I get it. You intended the joke to be pro-feminist. You were making fun of the attitude you were expressing. Unfortunately, it just came off badly. > > So just say that. Don’t act like me when I get pissed off. Notice how badly that’s gone. Thanks, dude. You know I wouldn’t joke about you if I thought you couldn’t handle it (plus you pitch some right over the plate). But **BigT** is right.:eek: Sincere apologies to anyone offended, that was never my intent. I have (had) a mother, daughter, sister, gf, as well as many good female friends and would never intentionally insult them. Next round is on me. ETA: **BigT** , your work is done here. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/108 "2017-07-07T12:43:30Z")
With the OP 100%. Also, in an attempt to explain a little bit to those for whom the OP is truly baffling, I’ll repost **tim314** ’s comment . . . > [@tim314](#): > > So basically you’re saying, “I’m not making sexist jokes, I’m parodying people who make sexist jokes, by making exactly the sort of sexist jokes they would make!” Is that it? :dubious: If the only thing distinguishing your parody from an actual thing is your own intent, then it is not parody, it’s parroting. You may think you are in opposition to the thing, but in fact you reinforce it. Jokes like those quoted in the OP hinge not on the fact that troglodyte-ish males are worthy of criticism, but that there’s something funny in that behavior. I have heard from plenty of women that in fact there’s nothing funny about that sort of ‘casually dropping sexist shit into my sentences, because, you know, I don’t mean it so it’s funny, right?’ I’d also like to add my continued bemusement at people (not all in this thread, but some) who, at the slightest criticism of their bad behavior, start flailing around calling other people snowflakes. But I guess if they can’t understand humor, it makes sense that irony would be lost on them as well. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/109 "2017-07-07T12:49:41Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > That’s nice and all, but it is not reality. The same is true for racism. > > You can try to shame people into doing the work by pretending they have bad intentions. But that doesn’t work all that well either. > > What’s more important, moral outrage or actually getting people to do the work? You missed my point. I don’t waste my time shaming bigots. I don’t give a shit about them. If they had any decency to shame, they wouldn’t be bigots in the first place. I’m shaming _you_, Richard Parker, for carrying water for the bigots by running in here to insist that the bigots are probably just good-hearted ignorants. While we’re at it, I’m also going to shame you for trying to tone police me. I’m sorry - am I persisting too much for you? Your posts in this thread are all about scolding _me_ for saying that bigots are bad people. You haven’t spent a single moment trying to reach the good-hearted sexists here at the Dope and asking them to maybe let their better angels up for air. Instead, you’re pissed off at _me_, for refusing to believe that they’re really just good boys underneath their ignorance. Piss off Richard. You want to be an ally? Go spend your time convincing Morgenstern and clairobscure that they should knock it off with the sexist jabs. Best of luck to you. ETA: kayaker - I accept your apology. ---
**Author:** ![JackieLikesVariety](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackielikesvariety/32/296_2.png) [@JackieLikesVariety](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JackieLikesVariety)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/110 "2017-07-07T12:50:05Z")
> [@](#): > > Sincere apologies to anyone offended, that was never my intent. I have (had) a mother, daughter, sister, gf, as well as many good female friends and would never intentionally insult them. > > Next round is on me. 🙂 on the whole, the assholes are greatly outnumbered by the decent people 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/111 "2017-07-07T13:17:00Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > They bitch. Snowflakes like to bitch. > Gonna see if I give a fuck, but it’s looking like I don’t. There’s something really amusing about the guy who was ranting in favor of Calexit as a response to Trump (and conservatism in general) using the term ‘snowflakes’ to justify making sexist jokes. On one hand he was big on ‘we’re so much more progressive than all of you red state idiots’, but on the other hand his response to being called out is to call the complainers ‘snowflakes’ and double down on the sexist stuff. Not really sure how that’s supposed to be miles more progressive than the 'ol pussy grabber in chief. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/112 "2017-07-07T13:26:39Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > … > > But **BigT** is right.:eek: > > Sincere apologies to anyone offended, that was never my intent. I have (had) a mother, daughter, sister, gf, as well as many good female friends and would never intentionally insult them. > … Thanks, kayaker. I have enjoyed several of your posts, but I misunderstood the intent of that one and was sad to see it was from you. I really appreciate the apology. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/113 "2017-07-07T13:31:18Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Sincere apologies to anyone offended, that was never my intent. I have (had) a mother, daughter, sister, gf, as well as many good female friends and would never intentionally insult them. Nicely done. > [@](#): > > Next round is on me. Now you’re talkin’! ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/114 "2017-07-07T13:51:30Z")
I’m trying to recall if I have done any mansplaining myself. The only time I can remember is when me and my then gf Brooke went to see Chasing Amy. There’s a scene where Ben Affleck’s character is trying to reconcile the splintering relationship between he and his best fried (Jason Lee) and his bi girlfriend (Joey Lauren Adams) by suggesting they all sleep together. Of course, it didn’t end well. I thought he was being an idiot, but Brooke thought he was being arrogant. When we got back to her place, she asked her roommate, and she agreed that he was arrogant. I couldn’t see him as arrogant, because he thought he should try to identify with his gf’s bisexuality by experiencing it himself. No no no no you should NEVER ask the gf permission to sleep with another person. It should be HER idea. That explanation didn’t go over too well. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/115 "2017-07-07T13:56:56Z")
> [@Rick\_Sanchez](#): > > Schoolmarmish humourlessness is also alive and well, clearly. You’re better than this. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/116 "2017-07-07T13:57:17Z")
I remember that movie (_Chasing Amy_), and I agree that Jason Lee was pretty fried in it. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/117 "2017-07-07T13:57:50Z")
> [@JackieLikesVariety](#): > > 🙂 > > on the whole, the assholes are greatly outnumbered by the decent people 😃 Maybe, but assholes are a tight-knit group. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/118 "2017-07-07T14:35:46Z")
Our buddy Morgenstern admits to trolling the Dope. I’m shocked I say. > **[Four snarks and seven durps ago... - Page 2 - The Giraffe Boards](https://www.giraffeboards.com/showthread.php?p=1377837)** > > Four snarks and seven durps ago... Discourse About You! (Yes, You!!) ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/119 "2017-07-07T14:37:11Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Our buddy Morgenstern admits to trolling the Dope. I’m shocked I say. > > [Four snarks and seven durps ago... - Page 2 - The Giraffe Boards](http://www.giraffeboards.com/showthread.php?p=1377837) Here is the post… > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > And Kayaker, I think you need to make “There’s the little girl” your “Let’s go down to the quarry…” > > \
> If he wanted to be just like Bo, then he’d also have to get all butthurt and “You’re not the boss of me!” whenever people complained about it.\
> \
> Also, I realize it’s the Pit, but holy shit \Morgenstern\ is being a prick in that thread. \
\
I try. I mean it’s anonymous and I don’t give a fuck. Posting is not half as much fun as trolling the retards when they all line up and are too stupid to see what’s before them. In other words, business as usual for the dopers. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/120 "2017-07-07T15:47:22Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > **Morgenstern** you are amusing, but I doubt it’s in the way you intended. Did you ask anyone to hold your beer before you started typing? On another MB I frequent, one where the members have contact and a shared history outside the board, one of the more sage posters observed, “You can’t make a good reputation on this board but you can sure ruin one.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633.md?page=7)