# Really Guys? AKA Sexism on the Board **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 6, 2017, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633 "2017-07-06T18:17:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/121 "2017-07-07T16:22:03Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Sincere apologies to anyone offended, that was never my intent. I have (had) a mother, daughter, sister, gf, as well as many good female friends and would never intentionally insult them. > > Next round is on me. Thank you. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/122 "2017-07-07T16:33:44Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > Thank you. 🙂 You’re welcome. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/123 "2017-07-07T17:02:21Z")
> [@Rick\_Sanchez](#): > > Schoolmarmish humourlessness is also alive and well, clearly. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > You’re better than this. No, he’s not. That’s typical of most of his posts here. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/124 "2017-07-07T17:13:51Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Each of us has a bazillion personal issues we need to reflect on or work on. Our relatives, our friends, our coworkers, our fellow citizens have bazillion of issues we could help with. There are many bazillions of other issues to reflect on and work on in the world at large. And generally speaking we like to have free time not spent reflecting on or working on issues. You can’t demand that everybody spend his time reprogramming himself on whatever issue you personnally think is important. > > How long have you spent today reflecting on and working on how your behaviour impacts work conditions in the developing world, for instance? How many changes have you decided to implement in your lifestyle to help with this very serious issue, this morning? How much time have you devoted to the issue of overfishing yesterday? How many hours have you spent last week wondering if your “mindless default” about, say, interactions with elderly people or meat consumption didn’t need reviewing? What was the last ten jokes that made you laugh, and how long have you spent wondering if they could be offensive for someone? Who were they mocking and do you feel ashamed for laughing at these jokes, at the expense of whatever group they were targeting? > > Do you have any fun, ever? If so, how do you justify wasting this time instead of reflecting upon and working on changing yourself, your learned behaviours, your “mindless defaults”, your mindset, your view of the world, your assupmtions, your beliefs, in order to improve life experience for everybody else? Because I’m pretty certain there’s an essentially endless list of things you could change in yourself that would benefit others. > > And of course, “if you’re not trying to do that work, you deserve criticism”. For all the issues you’re not working on right now. Every single one of them. You must feel terrible. Slippery slope much? Nobody says you have to spend your every free moment improving yourself. But you’re a fool if you spend no time improving yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/125 "2017-07-07T17:26:15Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > No, he’s not. That’s typical of most of his posts here. Maybe I’m confusing him with someone else. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/126 "2017-07-07T17:38:06Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > So basically you’re saying, “I’m not making sexist jokes, I’m parodying people who make sexist jokes, by making exactly the sort of sexist jokes they would make!” Is that it? :dubious: This is exactly why that “_there’s_ the little girl” claptrap makes me raise an eyebrow. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/127 "2017-07-07T17:43:26Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Maybe I’m confusing him with someone else. 😕 Rick Blumpkin, maybe? ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/128 "2017-07-07T18:21:54Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Rick Blumpkin, maybe? The resemblance is uncanny. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/129 "2017-07-07T19:15:37Z")
What I don’t understand is why this is a surprise. Have you really \*read \*some of the people on here? Nazis, transphobes, pedophiles, transphobic Nazi pedophiles, racists, and an entire clown car of trolls in any thread that isn’t along the lines of “Ketchup on hot dogs???” ---
**Author:** ![Helena330](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/helena330/32/531_2.png) [@Helena330](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helena330)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/130 "2017-07-07T19:47:59Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Our buddy Morgenstern admits to trolling the Dope. I’m shocked I say. > > [Four snarks and seven durps ago... - Page 2 - The Giraffe Boards](http://www.giraffeboards.com/showthread.php?p=1377837) Thanks. What a loser. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/131 "2017-07-07T19:49:09Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > …transphobic Nazi pedophiles… Do we have all that many of those? Really guys, the original thread had some humor that failed, was called out, and mainly the followup failure to apologize and acknowledge it’s inadequacy was the problem. You really can’t expect too much once it gets here in the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/132 "2017-07-07T19:53:24Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > You’re making this much bigger than it actually is. The amount of effort is relatively small. For most people, all you need to do is listen when someone tells you that something offends them. Listen to why, and then, next time, spend a few extra seconds to avoid doing that thing, or making it clear you aren’t doing that thing. Over time, this just becomes a habit. And why should I necessarily decide that I will avoid every single thing that offends someone somewhere? How many times have people who voted Trump been demeaned on this board? Are you trying hard to avoid any comment that might offend them, yourself? Besides, the poster I was responding to specifically made the point that regardless of what you think of it, this attitude is something that is many people default’s stance, based on their culture, education, etc…Those are things that aren’t trivial to change. Despite what you said, it does require efforts and attention to change one’s ways. And you have to think you should change your ways to begin with, which means a significant amount of soul searching, when, to begin with, you’re not convinced at all that the issue isn’t trivial, and that the offended have a good reason to be offended (for instance, how much time do you invest trying to figure out if you are terribly wrong and offensive when you criticize whichever group you happen not to like?) . So, no, definitely not trivial. And many people, probably including yourself, and certainly including me, if they have to invest efforts in something, and in particular in changing themselves, won’t prioritize your particular pet peeves, but something which is important for them. I don’t know, let’s say change their attitude towards their spouse, try harder to improve their work prospects, live a healthier life… And even if they turn their attention to things outside themselves, it’s not particularly likely to be one of the thing you promote. Maybe they’ll try to pray more intently for peace in the middle east or something? > [@](#): > > And I will remind you that this is not about some pet issue. Sexism is a form of bigotry, and bigotry is wrong. Plenty of things are wrong. And it is a pet issue. For instance I mentioned in my earlier example the exploitation of workers in the developing world. Is it less important than possibly sexist jokes? Shouldn’t you think of all the ways you’re participating in this exploitation? Trying hard to change your way of life accordingly? To devote a lot of time trying to do something about it? You could probably devote all your energy on this single issue and still fall short of achieving an ideal. And that’s only one issue you could spend your energy on. I could list hundreds of “wrong” things that could equally require your whole attention. Amongst all the issues you could be particularly bothered about, for some reason, it’s bigotry that annoys you most as your posting history shows. It’s exactly that : your pet issue. It’s not objectively more important than any other. > [@](#): > > We all know this–it’s why being told we’re being sexist hurts our feelings, and makes us defensive. We get that we don’t want people to mistreat us, so we try not to mistreat others. And, when we fail, it upsets us. Yes, and faithful Christian are all offended when you use the name of the Lord in vain. And Muslims when you make a drawing of Mahomet. Patriots are offended when your criticize your country, and so on…Someone being offended doesn’t necessarily mean that you should refrain from the offending behavior. > [@](#): > > It only makes sense to fight on issues that really matter. You mean like the exploitation of workers in the developing world? The disappearance of wild species every year? The unsustainable consumption of energy? Political corruption? The absence of efforts to properly fight tropical diseases? What? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/133 "2017-07-07T20:37:07Z")
You can take relatively small steps, such as being aware of sexist speech.and avoid them, in order to make a small but necessary contribution to reducing sexism and misogyny, which collectively has negative effects on many people’s lives. Does that take up too much of your effort or time away from vanquishing cholera? The important point is to be self-critical and not be self-satisfied. That goes a huge way toward making the world around you better. Is that not worth the effort? ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/134 "2017-07-07T20:50:29Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Maybe I’m confusing him with someone else. 😕 Probably **Rick Kitchen** , uber liberal, rather than **Rick Sanchez** , man who is afraid of SJWs. ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/135 "2017-07-07T21:09:23Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Do we have all that many of those? > > Really guys, the original thread had some humor that failed, was called out, and mainly the followup failure to apologize and acknowledge it’s inadequacy was the problem. You really can’t expect too much once it gets here in the Pit. Minimizing the concerns of other people isn’t helpful. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/136 "2017-07-07T21:12:54Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Probably **Rick Kitchen** , uber liberal, rather than **Rick Sanchez** , man who is afraid of SJWs. That’s probably it. Okay, **Rick** , you’re not better than this. As you were. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/137 "2017-07-07T21:32:23Z")
> [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > Minimizing the concerns of other people isn’t helpful. Sorry, I wasn’t trying to minimize any concerns. I was trying to point out that acknowledging them is a step in the right direction. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Sanchez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e19adc/32.png) [@Rick\_Sanchez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Sanchez)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/138 "2017-07-07T21:35:00Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > You’re better than this. I’m really, really not. Edit: ninja’d by…well, everyone, apparently. ---
**Author:** ![JackieLikesVariety](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackielikesvariety/32/296_2.png) [@JackieLikesVariety](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JackieLikesVariety)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/139 "2017-07-07T23:11:27Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > That’s probably it. Okay, **Rick** , you’re not better than this. As you were. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633/140 "2017-07-07T23:17:20Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > You missed my point. I don’t waste my time shaming bigots. I don’t give a shit about them. If they had any decency to shame, they wouldn’t be bigots in the first place. > > I’m shaming _you_, Richard Parker, for carrying water for the bigots by running in here to insist that the bigots are probably just good-hearted ignorants. Your post before and this one are good examples of a conspicuous style of leftist discourse–mostly in academia though leaking out into social networks more and more–that I think is completely wrong-headed and counterproductive, which is why I have responded as I have. For example, here you say that telling the truth, that bigots aren’t all intentional bigots, is “carrying water for the bigots.” No. The alternative, engaging in the false belief that bigots are unreachable non-humans who lack any decency, is neither accurate nor more effective at ending bigotry. So I won’t do it. > [@Merneith](#): > > While we’re at it, I’m also going to shame you for trying to tone police me. I’m sorry - am I persisting too much for you? Your posts in this thread are all about scolding _me_ for saying that bigots are bad people. Neither your accusation that I’m tone policing nor your characterization of me as scolding is accurate. Indeed, saying that disagreement amounts to tone policing is another part of the new lefty discourse that I think is a huge mistake. Tone policing is a thing. Not every disagreement, including disagreements about rhetorical tactics, is tone policing–especially not when the disagreement stems from a fundamental disagreement about empirical facts. It is also quite flawed to suggest that in any argument over bigotry one is obligated to address the bigots. I shouldn’t have to earn cookies from you or demonstrate my political correctness on the underlying issue in order to criticize your premises. And my lack of criticism of the bigoted statements, in the context when lots of other people are criticizing them, has precisely zero effect on them. > [@Merneith](#): > > You haven’t spent a single moment trying to reach the good-hearted sexists here at the Dope and asking them to maybe let their better angels up for air. False. > [@Merneith](#): > > Instead, you’re pissed off at _me_, for refusing to believe that they’re really just good boys underneath their ignorance. Also false. > [@Merneith](#): > > Piss off Richard. You want to be an ally? Go spend your time convincing Morgenstern and clairobscure that they should knock it off with the sexist jabs. Best of luck to you. Odd for you to say, since you believe the right approach is not to give a shit about them and that they cannot be shamed or redeemed. I guess you think a good ally just performs disagreement with bigotry, even though it doesn’t change anything. I disagree. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-guys-aka-sexism-on-the-board/790633.md?page=8)