# Really, how destructive would a Trump presidency be **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 20, 2016, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-how-destructive-would-a-trump-presidency-be/760445 "2016-07-20T20:04:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![computergeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e56c9b/32.png) [@computergeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/computergeek)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2016, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-how-destructive-would-a-trump-presidency-be/760445/21 "2016-07-20T23:24:05Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > That’s assuming, of course, that Trump was telling the truth. (Actually as I understand it, it’s that someone who worked for John Kasich said that Donald Trump Jr said that about Donald Trump Sr – so it’s a matryoshka doll of possible truth.) As I said in the Trump thread, campaign manager Manafort said something similar earlier this year in the Huffington Post so I believe at least the basics of the story. It could just be a lie to soothe feelings and get the conservatives on board though, but if so, that’s a pretty big feint ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2016, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-how-destructive-would-a-trump-presidency-be/760445/22 "2016-07-20T23:31:52Z")
I think there is a non-zero chance of Trump ordering a nuclear strike, and not getting the necessary agreement to confirm that order. And then things get interesting. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-how-destructive-would-a-trump-presidency-be/760445/23 "2016-07-21T00:14:33Z")
“Define ‘interesting’.” “Oh God, oh God, we’re all going to die?” ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-how-destructive-would-a-trump-presidency-be/760445/24 "2016-07-21T02:07:56Z")
I think that Trump is very problematic, but there are many easy ways to keep him under control. One way is by the Senate being very careful about who they confirm. Trump may be able to order his SecState or SecDefense to do certain things, but if those things are too crazy and the people in those positions are good, solid people, then they’ll resign. And if the order is crazy enough, hopefully the Undersecretaries resign too rather than carry out crazy orders. But even that I think is unlikely, because Trump isn’t crazy. He just plays crazy on TV. His ego is real. His unpredictability is real. But he’s not a dummy and he’s not pure evil. He’s not going to nuke anyone or start unnecessary wars. What’s more likely is a Presidency of spectacle, insults, verbal wars with other leaders(which happens now anyway, we just try to be more adult about it than the Kims of the world), and battles with Congress over what President Trump actually can and can’t do. I also suspect that Trump wants to be President more than he wants to actually accomplish anything as President. If reports are true that he promised Kasich basically the job of President, then Trump’s vision of his role seems to be more as a drunken constitutional monarch. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-how-destructive-would-a-trump-presidency-be/760445/25 "2016-07-21T02:19:30Z")
“Put your hand on that scanner or I’ll cut it off and do it for you.” ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-how-destructive-would-a-trump-presidency-be/760445/26 "2016-07-21T02:19:52Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I think that Trump is very problematic, but there are many easy ways to keep him under control. > > One way is by the Senate being very careful about who they confirm. Trump may be able to order his SecState or SecDefense to do certain things, but if those things are too crazy and the people in those positions are good, solid people, then they’ll resign. And if the order is crazy enough, hopefully the Undersecretaries resign too rather than carry out crazy orders. > > But even that I think is unlikely, because Trump isn’t crazy. He just plays crazy on TV. His ego is real. His unpredictability is real. But he’s not a dummy and he’s not pure evil. He’s not going to nuke anyone or start unnecessary wars. What’s more likely is a Presidency of spectacle, insults, verbal wars with other leaders(which happens now anyway, we just try to be more adult about it than the Kims of the world), and battles with Congress over what President Trump actually can and can’t do. > > I also suspect that Trump wants to be President more than he wants to actually accomplish anything as President. If reports are true that he promised Kasich basically the job of President, then Trump’s vision of his role seems to be more as a drunken constitutional monarch. Trump doesn’t drink. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-how-destructive-would-a-trump-presidency-be/760445/27 "2016-07-21T02:46:03Z")
For one thing delegating the actual job of running the country to Pence is a horrifying prospect. Secondly, internationally Trump could do immense amount of harm. He’d play brinkmanship games with US armed forces. I’d put the likelihood of him starting a war that he didn’t intend to as close to 100 percent. He’d of course think that whoever he is up against will back down because he’s Trump, the great deal maker! Also, his best buddy Putin would manipulate him, into doing a bunch of things that are not in the US long term interest. Why do you think Putin complements Trump? Because Putin knows he’s a buffoon that he can easily re-assure with flattery while he grabs whatever he wants. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-how-destructive-would-a-trump-presidency-be/760445/28 "2016-07-21T02:54:51Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > I’m going to assume Democrats and maybe a few Republicans will obstruct him in Congress. The judiciary will still be active. Media will still exist. > > So what’s the worst he can do? Piss off allies and enemies? Can he bomb anyone without Congress? Fuck up treaties? Y’know, George W. Bush was only eight years ago. Look at what he did to the country, and consider that compared to Trump, Bush is basically Winston Churchill. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-how-destructive-would-a-trump-presidency-be/760445/29 "2016-07-21T03:59:29Z")
I never though I’d be nostalgic for Bush, but he’d be a way better choice. Trump cannot pawn the job off on Pence. He’s the Head of State. He HAS to do that. Maybe the President of Guinea Bisseau can be foisted off on the Veep, but not any leader that’s important. The job is exceptionally hard even if you only do half of it. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-how-destructive-would-a-trump-presidency-be/760445/30 "2016-07-21T05:17:05Z")
I don’t think that’s what Trump means. He’d do all the stuff a President has to do, while leaving the actual forming of policy and carrying it out to Pence. But Trump would do all the stuff like signing bills and doing summits and that sort of thing. Think of it as the Bush/Cheney administration in the first term. Pence does all the real work and Trump rides to the bill signing or his summit with Hail to the Chief playing, it’ll all be very glorious, you’ll love it. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-how-destructive-would-a-trump-presidency-be/760445/31 "2016-07-21T05:46:22Z")
My wild guess to answer this question is, “not as bad as many fear, and worse than many imagine.” ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-how-destructive-would-a-trump-presidency-be/760445/32 "2016-07-21T06:10:07Z")
Lord Feldon mentioned this in another post. Donald has, several times now, speculated that he might want to ditch our NATO allies in the face of Russian aggression. Here’s a NYT article from just yesterday: [http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/21/us/politics/donald-trump-issues.html?\_r=0](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/21/us/politics/donald-trump-issues.html?_r=0) > [@Donald J. Trump](#): > > He even called into question whether, as president, he would automatically extend the security guarantees that give the 28 members of NATO the assurance that the full force of the United States military has their back. > > For example, asked about Russia’s threatening activities that have unnerved the small Baltic States that are among the more recent entrants into NATO, Mr. Trump said that if Russia attacked them, he would decide whether to come to their aid only after reviewing whether those nations “have fulfilled their obligations to us.” > > He added, “If they fulfill their obligations to us, the answer is yes.” Remember this the next time you see someone saying, “but Hillary is just as bad!” ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-how-destructive-would-a-trump-presidency-be/760445/33 "2016-07-21T06:23:53Z")
No one should ever say that. Trump even matches her in scandals and lying. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-how-destructive-would-a-trump-presidency-be/760445/34 "2016-07-21T07:16:21Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I don’t think that’s what Trump means. He’d do all the stuff a President has to do, while leaving the actual forming of policy and carrying it out to Pence. But Trump would do all the stuff like signing bills and doing summits and that sort of thing. Think of it as the Bush/Cheney administration in the first term. Pence does all the real work and Trump rides to the bill signing or his summit with Hail to the Chief playing, it’ll all be very glorious, you’ll love it. I suspect this is what Trump wants on some level. This is what Donald Trump Jr. offered Kasich. But Kasich knew that Trump isn’t somebody who will keep his word. And I’m not convinced that Trump has a clear enough idea of what he wants to do that he won’t change his mind. Trump does not lack ego and egotists are unlikely to turn down actual decision making. > [@RickJay](#): > > I never though I’d be nostalgic for Bush, but he’d be a way better choice. Ok, but Rick Perry would also be a better choice. _Rick Perry_. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-how-destructive-would-a-trump-presidency-be/760445/35 "2016-07-21T08:43:17Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > I suspect this is what Trump wants on some level. This is what Donald Trump Jr. offered Kasich. But Kasich knew that Trump isn’t somebody who will keep his word. And I’m not convinced that Trump has a clear enough idea of what he wants to do that he won’t change his mind. > > Trump does not lack ego and egotists are unlikely to turn down actual decision making. I think a good way to interpret Trump’s intentions is, “You handle all the stuff I find boring, and I’ll spectacularly screw up everything I’m actually interested in.” ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-how-destructive-would-a-trump-presidency-be/760445/36 "2016-07-21T10:46:52Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > Lord Feldon mentioned this in another post. Donald has, several times now, speculated that he might want to ditch our NATO allies in the face of Russian aggression. Here’s a NYT article from just yesterday: > > [http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/21/us/politics/donald-trump-issues.html?\_r=0](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/21/us/politics/donald-trump-issues.html?_r=0) > > … That sounds like an excellent way to bring about World War III. ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-how-destructive-would-a-trump-presidency-be/760445/37 "2016-07-21T10:56:08Z")
… and speculating about not meeting treaty obligations (encouraging Russia to do a Crimea on a Baltic country), then meeting them after all (starting World War III) would be entirely within his legal powers, no overreach needed :eek: ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-how-destructive-would-a-trump-presidency-be/760445/38 "2016-07-21T11:11:13Z")
> [@Mops](#): > > That sounds like an excellent way to bring about World War III. Or at minimum, allow Putin to retake former Soviet states and reignite a Cold War – only this time without Turkey as a Eurasian bulwark and with quite probably a weaker and more divided Western Europe, I might add. I doubt we’d have a WWIII because America’s options at defending against a more aggressive Soviet state would be comparatively limited. ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-how-destructive-would-a-trump-presidency-be/760445/39 "2016-07-21T12:07:30Z")
not gonna lie, in terms of the kind of frenzy Trump seems to whip up, he looks like a combination of Putin, Julius Malema, JM Le-Pen, Corbyn, all rolled into one; appeal pretty much all to emotion, propaganda, and no rationality or serious policy ideas. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-how-destructive-would-a-trump-presidency-be/760445/40 "2016-07-21T12:23:26Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > not gonna lie, in terms of the kind of frenzy Trump seems to whip up, he looks like a combination of Putin, Julius Malema, JM Le-Pen, Corbyn, all rolled into one; appeal pretty much all to emotion, propaganda, and no rationality or serious policy ideas. Yep. You hear it from the followers. “Wait, but he just contradicted himself!” “We don’t care, he speaks my language and tells it like it is!” “But what he just said is wrong AND impossible!” “That’s America being Great again, f\*\*\* yeah!” He’s the avatar for their wish to lash out, and they just don’t care that lashing out will solve nothing. These people want to hurt those who “did us wrong” and so what if “we” get hurt, at least now “they” will be hurting too. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-how-destructive-would-a-trump-presidency-be/760445.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-how-destructive-would-a-trump-presidency-be/760445.md?page=3)