# Really, REALLY stupid question about piss tests **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 18, 2006, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-really-stupid-question-about-piss-tests/340533 "2006-01-18T18:31:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![medstar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f07891/32.png) [@medstar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/medstar)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2006, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-really-stupid-question-about-piss-tests/340533/21 "2006-01-21T00:38:13Z")
I was wondering about the poppyseeds mention a few posts above. I used to love eating poppyseed muffins but gave them up when I started working for the gummint. I was ( and am) quite paranoid about having any level of opiate in my body that I could get in trouble for. Can I start eating poppyseed muffins again? How many would make me get taken to the pokey right away? ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2006, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-really-stupid-question-about-piss-tests/340533/22 "2006-01-21T01:07:18Z")
> [@inkleberry](#): > > Yes. I worked in an inpatient drug rehab before. Some dumbass’ apple juice pee is my cite. > > They also can check for: > **- the difference between poppy seed false positives and real opiate positives** Cite, please! Poppy seeds contain morphine, so any test on it will show morphine. And there’s no way to differentiate between poppy seed morphine and morphine from morphine tabs or injection. I suppose one could simultaneously test the specimen by mass spec to see if there are other molecules unique to poppy seeds in the sample, but that wouldn’t rule out someone eating poppy seeds and taking morphine tablets or morphine IV. BTW, I did run this by a friend who’s a current active MRO who does this stuff daily for a living alongside of his occupational medicine practice (I was certified years ago but havent’ practiced it in recent years). He verifies that there’s no way to currently differentiate poppy seed ingestion from morphine ingestion. So **medstar** , keep that in mind if you decide to eat poppy seeds. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2006, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-really-stupid-question-about-piss-tests/340533/23 "2006-01-21T01:16:07Z")
> [@Qadgop the Mercotan](#): > > Cite, please! Poppy seeds contain morphine, so any test on it will show morphine. And there’s no way to differentiate between poppy seed morphine and morphine from morphine tabs or injection. Poppy seeds presumably contain a lot less morphine than is needed to get you high… is it not possible to measure the amount that was ingested? ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2006, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-really-stupid-question-about-piss-tests/340533/24 "2006-01-21T01:21:48Z")
> [@Mr2001](#): > > Poppy seeds presumably contain a lot less morphine than is needed to get you high… is it not possible to measure the amount that was ingested? Sure, you can measure the concentration in the urine. But you still can’t differentiate whether it is from recently ingested poppy seeds or remotely ingested morphine that’s almost all out of the system. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2006, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-really-stupid-question-about-piss-tests/340533/25 "2006-01-21T02:14:57Z")
I really doubt that they can tell the difference between poppy seed-ingested morphine and drug morphine. They could presumably check for acetylated morphine to see if the person was a _heroin_ user … or maybe they could check for codeine and other opiates that are found in poppy seeds but presumably not in morphine that would be taken recreationally. And in any case, poppy seeds almost always contain enough morphine to be used recreationally if you ingest enough of them, so even if you had a foolproof test for poppy seeds, that wouldn’t absolutely rule out the testee being a drug fiend… ---
**Author:** ![inkleberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f17d59/32.png) [@inkleberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/inkleberry)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2006, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-really-stupid-question-about-piss-tests/340533/26 "2006-01-21T07:27:16Z")
> [@Qadgop the Mercotan](#): > > Cite, please! Poppy seeds contain morphine, so any test on it will show morphine. And there’s no way to differentiate between poppy seed morphine and morphine from morphine tabs or injection. . My only cite is experience. We would get long lab results back on UAs, and where there were positives for opiates the test results would be broken down into analysis (morphine, viocdin, methodone, etc). Unfortunately, I have no idea what process they used to determine this. I do know that for poppy seeds in particular they went based on the amount in the urine and some other sort of marker. We once did a quick UA screen a few hours after a known clean staff member ate a poppy seed loaded bagel, and it came up +. Sent to lab for analysis, and they were not fooled. I can get you the lab name & phone number if you want to call and inquire into their process. > [@Qadgop the Mercotan](#): > > I suppose one could simultaneously test the specimen by mass spec to see if there are other molecules unique to poppy seeds in the sample, but that wouldn’t rule out someone eating poppy seeds and taking morphine tablets or morphine IV. I wonder if it’s quanitity, impurities inherent to seeds, some sort of strain test (commercially available food poppy seeds are supposed to be nondrug ones in the US), or some other variant. Given that this lab also claimed to be able to tell the difference between ativan & valium & other benzos 4 weeks post use in a sample, I wouldn’t doubt they weren’t reliable. I do know we switched to an inhouse lab a few months after I started that job, citing quality concerns. I’d pay you $5 to call them though, and if you bust them lying, bring 'em down. ---
**Author:** ![inkleberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f17d59/32.png) [@inkleberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/inkleberry)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2006, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-really-stupid-question-about-piss-tests/340533/27 "2006-01-21T07:49:54Z")
> [@Qadgop the Mercotan](#): > > Sure, you can measure the concentration in the urine. But you still can’t differentiate whether it is from recently ingested poppy seeds or remotely ingested morphine that’s almost all out of the system. Except perhaps in a locked rehab facility where the UAs could and often were daily. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2006, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-really-stupid-question-about-piss-tests/340533/28 "2006-01-21T20:11:27Z")
OK, a little further research has shown that some drug labs will screen for other opiate alkaloids that appear with morphine and are generally only found in opium. Things like neopine, oripavine, thebaine, and sinomenine. (BTW, opium and poppy seeds contain codiene, too). One can have all these things show up in one’s urine if one is eating poppy seeds. So some labs are stating that if the above molecules are showing up, it must be from poppy seed consumption. Unfortunately, one finds the same things in urine if one is consuming opium. And any good addict who wants to try to beat the consequences of his addiction can take morphine or codiene, then eat some poppy seeds, and point to the other molecules found in the urine to try to say they the positive test was due to poppy seeds only. Bottom line: A test result showing that urine contains morphine, codiene, neopine, oripavine, thebaine, and sinomenine indicates that at minimum, the patient was consuming either poppy seeds, other bits of a poppy plant, or opium. And the urine test can’t say that the patient wasn’t consuming either morphine or codiene in its pharmaceutical form either. For most intents and purposes (employment screens, etc) I suspect if the profile shows the whole thing could be due to poppy seeds, some testers/employers will consider that a negative test for a controlled substance. However, if you’re testing a population of drug abusers to verify abstinence (a useful thing to do if your drug abuser is trying to recover and continue working say, as an airline pilot or neurosurgeon), best to inform your testees that poppy seeds are forbidden, because your urine test will be considered positive if it has the above-described results in it. ---
**Author:** ![DougC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@DougC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DougC)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2006, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-really-stupid-question-about-piss-tests/340533/29 "2006-01-21T20:54:31Z")
- - - I had a question (related to this subject) that got locked, perhaps it was framed incorrectly–but on another board it was suggested comically that–to beat an employer’s urine test–once you tested positive, to tell the employer that you were actually taking urine therapy (drinking it) and that whover’s you drank must have been smoking, not you. Now obviously there are a number of other testing options that might easily be presented in such an instance, and that would not be susceptible to falsifying–but it’s not something I would really expect to try myself. It’d be kind of a hollow success I think–you’d keep your job but would be nicknamed “peepee breath” for all etirnity. But anyway… I’m still wondering… Would it be possible to tell if the tested ingredients had been through two people or not? 😃 ~ ---
**Author:** ![medstar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f07891/32.png) [@medstar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/medstar)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2006, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-really-stupid-question-about-piss-tests/340533/30 "2006-01-21T21:08:27Z")
Thanks for your answers, I guess it’s a good thing that I like blueberry, banana nut, bran muffins, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2006, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-really-stupid-question-about-piss-tests/340533/31 "2006-01-21T21:25:10Z")
> [@DougC](#): > > - > - > - I had a question (related to this subject) that got locked, perhaps it was framed incorrectly–but on another board it was suggested comically that–to beat an employer’s urine test–once you tested positive, to tell the employer that you were actually taking urine therapy (drinking it) and that whover’s you drank must have been smoking, not you. ~ I believe that urine therapy usually involves consuming your own urine, not that of others. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2006, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-really-stupid-question-about-piss-tests/340533/32 "2006-01-21T22:45:19Z")
thoughts on that stuff??? LInk deleted thx alfred ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2006, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-really-stupid-question-about-piss-tests/340533/33 "2006-01-21T23:45:05Z")
Couldn’t one use the proportions of narcotics vs. other poppy compounds to distinguish drugs from poppyseeds? As in, you detect non-narcotic poppy compounds in the sample. From this, you deduce that the subject ate X quantity of poppyseeds Y amount of time before the test. That consumption of poppyseeds would be expected to produce Z level of opium. If the level of opium found in the sample was Z, then it’s just bagels, but if it’s greater, then there must have been some other, non-poppyseed source. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2006, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-really-stupid-question-about-piss-tests/340533/34 "2006-01-22T04:22:25Z")
> [@Qadgop the Mercotan](#): > > And any good addict who wants to try to beat the consequences of his addiction can […] It seems a little glib to call urine testing a consequence of addiction. Millions of addicts don’t have to take urine tests, and millions of non-users do. I wouldn’t be surprised if a few non-users had tampered with samples or otherwise tried to defeat the tests, simply because they were angry at having to submit to such a humiliating process just to work at a call center or video store. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2006, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-really-stupid-question-about-piss-tests/340533/35 "2006-01-22T04:54:01Z")
> [@Mr2001](#): > > It seems a little glib to call urine testing a consequence of addiction. Millions of addicts don’t have to take urine tests, and millions of non-users do. Many addicts have, as a consequence of their addiction, mandated urine drug testing. How is it glib to make note of this? The presence of the larger issue of drug testing a different population for different reasons doesn’t negate that fact. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2006, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-really-stupid-question-about-piss-tests/340533/36 "2006-01-22T04:58:31Z")
Fair enough. ---
**Author:** ![elfbabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b782af/32.png) [@elfbabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfbabe)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2006, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-really-stupid-question-about-piss-tests/340533/37 "2006-01-22T06:37:54Z")
Well, **DougC** … according to the Cecil Adams of sex questions, Dan Savage, the answer to whether drinking urine can make you test positive on a drug test is “[Nah](http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/SavageLove?oid=2193)… wait, [Yes!](http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/SavageLove?oid=23526)” (apparently drug screens have improved since the first column) So while I suppose it would be a possible _excuse_ for failing a drug test, I am really not seeing anyone buying it. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2006, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-really-stupid-question-about-piss-tests/340533/38 "2006-01-22T17:08:46Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Couldn’t one use the proportions of narcotics vs. other poppy compounds to distinguish drugs from poppyseeds? As in, you detect non-narcotic poppy compounds in the sample. From this, you deduce that the subject ate X quantity of poppyseeds Y amount of time before the test. That consumption of poppyseeds would be expected to produce Z level of opium. If the level of opium found in the sample was Z, then it’s just bagels, but if it’s greater, then there must have been some other, non-poppyseed source. Just making an educated guess, I’d have to say that getting quantitative results on a urine test will add to the complexity, expense, and time needed to get the answer. Especially considering that one would need to measure the individual’s creatinine clearance (combined blood and urine testing) and factor in the specific gravity of the urine to make real definitive statements about what, when and how much of certain substances were consumed. Now if a doctor’s license is on the line, it may behoove him to pony up $500 (a random guess as to the cost) to quantify every alkaloid found in the urine, rather than just identifying their presence. Even then, it doesn’t preclude the possibility that the testee relapsed remotely to morphine, and then ate some poppy seeds when he got notified to produce a sample. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2006, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-really-stupid-question-about-piss-tests/340533/39 "2006-01-22T17:22:15Z")
> [@Al128](#): > > thoughts on that stuff??? > > LInk deleted > > thx > alfred why did the link I posted (a product on e-bay that claims to beat drug tests) got deleted? ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2006, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-really-stupid-question-about-piss-tests/340533/40 "2006-01-22T19:52:28Z")
> [@Qadgop the Mercotan](#): > > Shy bladder can generally be overcome by exhaling, then holding one’s breath until one pees. Most individuals will pee before losing consciousness. Avoid this technique until you’ve consulted your physician if you have uncontrolled epilepsy or uncontrolled hypertension, neurovascular deficits, frequent unexplained losses of consciousness, or have actually held your breath until you passed out before. Damn! Where the Hell was this knowledge when I was doing observed whiz quizes? I kept having to hydrostatically test my bladder. Painful. Very, very painful. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-really-stupid-question-about-piss-tests/340533.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-really-stupid-question-about-piss-tests/340533.md?page=3)