# Really? You didn't mean to hurt anyone by sending them to prison falsely? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 30, 2012, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298 "2012-09-30T07:51:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2012, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/41 "2012-09-30T20:38:10Z")
Yeah this technician is obviously a terrible criminal, but I doubt culpability lies with her alone. I’m seeing a culture of corruption as pretty likely, and will be sad in a way if she alone takes the fall. Obviously glad it got caught and that at the very least she will be punished. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2012, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/42 "2012-09-30T21:41:00Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > Yeah this technician is obviously a terrible criminal, but I doubt culpability lies with her alone. I’m seeing a culture of corruption as pretty likely, and \*\*will be sad in a way if she alone takes the fall. \*\*Obviously glad it got caught and that at the very least she will be punished. I won’t be. She cast doubt on the work of every ethical & hard-working analytical chemist, government employee, cop, and prosecutor. And do you think any of her co-workers are going to be the first pick for a decent job? But that’s not the only issue. One cannot oversee every task by every worker and confirm every analysis. It is important to make the penalty for cheating severe enough to discourage it. Every chemist in that lab was under the same pressure to “produce”. Two of them tried to stop her. Her supervisors and directors may have pressured her, but _ **she is the one who falsified the result!** _ Damn, but I just keep getting madder. That being said, they better get a forensic document examiner on the sample custody log, to verify she was the ones that forge the initials. An external one. > [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > Maybe they were too busy with their child sex slaves to do so. Huh? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2012, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/43 "2012-09-30T21:51:36Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > Maybe they were too busy with their child sex slaves to do so. I’m old-school here. If your running a child sex-slave thing, you gotta give it 100%. Otherwise you are fooling nobody but yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2012, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/44 "2012-09-30T22:06:12Z")
There’s another whole level involved here. If I’m reading the article correctly, Dookhan would sometimes falsify records using other testers’ identity. That means that it’s not just every test that Dookhan conducted that’s now worthless. A good lawyer can now make a case that any test conducted by Hinton State Laboratory Institute during the nine years Dookhan worked there might have been one of the ones she falsified even if it was some other employee on record for having done the test. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2012, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/45 "2012-09-30T22:28:38Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > There’s another whole level involved here. If I’m reading the article correctly, Dookhan would sometimes falsify records using other testers’ identity. That means that it’s not just every test that Dookhan conducted that’s now worthless. A good lawyer can now make a case that any test conducted by Hinton State Laboratory Institute during the nine years Dookhan worked there might have been one of the ones she falsified even if it was some other employee on record for having done the test. What a clusterfuck. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2012, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/46 "2012-09-30T22:38:52Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > Maybe they were too busy with their child sex slaves to do so. > [@j666](#): > > Huh? It was a reference to a comment on the source article, that " So much of this goes on everyday, cheating at work and stealing, asaulting, rape, keeping children as sex slaves." ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2012, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/47 "2012-09-30T23:31:46Z")
> [@Bouncer](#): > > It’s prosecutorial misconduct (regardless of whether the prosecutors themselves knew about it or not), I seriously doubt it’s prosecutorial misconduct if the prosecutor had no knowledge of the woman’s illegal activity at the lab. What it defitely is, though, is perjury, tampering with evidence, and forgery. > [@](#): > > and that’s like an instant get out of jail card in most cases. > > I cannot even imagine how much money her actions are going to cost the state, they’re having to set up special courts with Judges working overtime to handle the sudden massive backlog. > > Even if the evidence still remains, ANYTHING that has her lab or her signature on the chain of custody (that would be the drugs, btw) is right out the window. No choice really. Oh, yeah, it is. There’s no telling how much money the state’s going to be out. This will be taxpayer money that could be better used on things such as, oh, perhaps, _verifying someone’s qualifications before turning them lose on evidence!_ ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2012, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/48 "2012-09-30T23:53:26Z")
> [@j666](#): > > Most test sample preps required around a gram or so, for results in the parts per thousand or percent range; I don’t imagine any case going to trial would involve less than that. On the one hand, you’re right, if a cop found someone with less then a gram of coke, that person would probably walk away _thrilled_ to get a ticket for a few hundred dollars, a mandatory court date and a slap on the wrist. But as a, errr, former college student, a gram is not an insignificant amount. Sure, a dealer will typically have quite a bit more then that and someone going out for a big weekend with some friends will have about three and half grams, but your typical college kid that might get picked up for some random offense that just happens to have some blow in his pocket is probably going to have about a half a gram. I wonder if he’s better off fighting in and hoping the results are inconclusive. I wonder if cops have field testing kits for coke? A friend of mine got busted by the campus cops (which are county sheriffs with an on campus sub station) for smoking pot in her room. They testing pipes with field testing kids for residue right there in her room. I’m sure that stops people from claiming they have tobacco pipes shoved in their socks. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2012, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/49 "2012-09-30T23:58:05Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > It was a reference to a comment on the source article, that " So much of this goes on everyday, cheating at work and stealing, asaulting, rape, keeping children as sex slaves." Oh, okay. Don’t do that anymore, you scared me. Even I don’t think falsifying lab data is as bad as child sex slaves. Close, though. Really, the law is to protect people, including the defenseless, and she certainly undercut it, didn’t she? ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/50 "2012-10-01T00:07:28Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > It’s not RO; it’s reasonable outrage. She faces a maximum of 20 years even though she’s put innocent people away for far longer, just because she’s a lazy fuck. My take is that it is not RO because of the serious and extensive _policy_ implications of this case. [quote=“Monty, post:13, topic:636298”] It occurs to me that a number of people are culpable in this case: [ol][li]The cretin who falsified the tests, of course.[/li][li]Her supervisors for not verifying her credentials in the first place.[/li][li]Her supervisors again for not monitoring her.[/li][li]Her supervisors yet again for simply accepting her astronomical workload completed as though that’s not a red flag.[/li][li]Her supervisors once more for not taking action when “some irregularities” were reported to them over the course of a couple of years.[/li][li]The courts for not verifying her credentials when certifying her as an expert witness.[/ol] [/li][/QUOTE] 7. The policy makers who set up a system with insufficient oversight. Cops should be sending known samples in to test the laboratory’s fidelity to fact. Why? Because: > [@j666](#): > > I know that lab techs are pushed constantly to increase their “productivity”. > [@drewtwo99](#): > > Yeah this technician is obviously a terrible criminal, but I doubt culpability lies with her alone. I’m seeing a culture of corruption as pretty likely, and will be sad in a way if she alone takes the fall. Obviously glad it got caught and that at the very least she will be punished. Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/51 "2012-10-01T02:39:52Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > This will be taxpayer money that could be better used on things such as, oh, perhaps, _verifying someone’s qualifications before turning them lose on evidence!_ Be so kind as to mentally change _lose_ to _loose_. In this case, though, maybe _lose_ isn’t too much of a mistake as the lab tech in question certainly destroyed a lot of evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/52 "2012-10-01T15:56:49Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > I don’t get how adding cocaine to samples so that they test positive would make her look like a good employee. I can only conclude that she wast just doing it for a laugh. > [@Pitchmeister](#): > > Probably in the same way that writing many speeding tickets makes a cop a good one. “Look how many bad people I’m catching!” “Dookhan was the most productive chemist in the lab, routinely testing more than 500 samples a month, while others tested 50 to 150.” > [@grude](#): > > Please note I do not in anyway condone what this woman did. > > That said what exactly kinds of samples was she testing? What was being sent for analysis I mean? The reason I wonder is that if it was street drugs wrapped for sale I’ve been lead to believe that the penalty criminally for selling flour as cocaine is exactly the same as that for selling actual cocaine, so I suppose she may have thought she was just saving time. bricker probably has the answer to this but it seems to me that the crime is distribution of the actual drug. If I sell fake guns without a license and pretend theya re real guns, I don’t think I can go to jail for selling guns without a license (maybe for fraud but not the other stuff). > [@thirdname](#): > > She should go to prison for a long time, but the whole system is fucked up if she could get away with this for this long. There should be redundancy so one person acting alone can’t falsify results. (Or at least not do it regularly and get away with it.) They should have two labs independently test samples, or they should have audits where they pass known samples through the system and make sure the test results on them are correct. It is grossly negligent for them not do that. > > The fact that they didn’t inquire into how she managed to test 3-10 times as many samples is negligent. Her supervisors should lose their jobs. > > It bothers me that everyone believes DNA evidence and so forth is airtight, when actually you’re relying in the word of the technician who does the test, and you’re relying on the cops not tampering with samples. Lying about results, slipping some drugs into a vial, or switching blood samples seems like it would be trivially easy, easier than faking almost any other type of evidence. On the other hand she looks pretty cute. ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/53 "2012-10-01T16:02:11Z")
Think about the mess for the cops, overburdened courts and prosecutors as well. Of the 34,000 a good number were probably guilty, but, unless untainted evidence is still available, how will the convictions stand? Even with “good” samples, how much will the retesting cost? Total nightmare. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/54 "2012-10-01T16:52:27Z")
Interestingly, I recently watched a Law & Order about this very thing. Actually, it was about fingerprint evidence, not drugs. OK, it’s just a TV show, but L&O is pretty good about staying true to life. I am certainly willing to believe that samples are given to technicians with a little nudge and wink about giving the low life criminal scumbag a “fair test.” ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/55 "2012-10-01T17:10:28Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > “Dookhan was the most productive chemist in the lab, routinely testing more than 500 samples a month, while others tested 50 to 150.” I don’t understand how this could possibly have been anything other than a ridiculously large red flag. > [@](#): > > bricker probably has the answer to this but it seems to me that the crime is distribution of the actual drug. If I sell fake guns without a license and pretend theya re real guns, I don’t think I can go to jail for selling guns without a license (maybe for fraud but not the other stuff). At least in Florida, there is a separate crime addressing those scenarios: manufacture/sale/distribution of a _counterfeit_ controlled substance (§831.31, Florida Statutes). For the purposes of non-prescription drugs, that means _the container_ must identify the drugs as a controlled substance. This makes sense, when you think about it, because otherwise you might be subject to prosecution for innocently carrying a bag of flour or something. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/56 "2012-10-01T17:26:57Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > At least in Florida, there is a separate crime addressing those scenarios: manufacture/sale/distribution of a _counterfeit_ controlled substance (§831.31, Florida Statutes). For the purposes of non-prescription drugs, that means _the container_ must identify the drugs as a controlled substance. This makes sense, when you think about it, because otherwise you might be subject to prosecution for innocently carrying a bag of flour or something. So you can only get in trouble if your little baggie with talcum powder says the word cocaine on it? ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/57 "2012-10-01T17:32:46Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Interestingly, I recently watched a Law & Order about this very thing. Actually, it was about fingerprint evidence, not drugs. > > OK, it’s just a TV show, but L&O is pretty good about staying true to life. I am certainly willing to believe that samples are given to technicians with a little nudge and wink about giving the low life criminal scumbag a “fair test.” I believe the crimelab in Nassau County NY had a huge quality control problem three or four years ago. I didn’t track it closely, but the matter still is in the courts and occasionally hits the news. It’s nice that Law and Order wrapped it up in a single hour episode. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/58 "2012-10-01T17:56:09Z")
I tend to agree that there are much bigger people mixed up in this. Here in MA, there is tremendous pressure to get drug convictions…Federal funding is contingent on getting more money for drug busts. So I think that this woman’s contacts with prosecutors and the police should be investigated. Another unintended consequence of the “War On Drugs”-we now have a police/justice/prison system that depends upon more and more prosecutions for drug possession and distribution. What a wonderful system! ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/59 "2012-10-01T17:59:56Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > On the other hand she looks pretty cute. Which is why she’ll probably get a slap on the wrist. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/60 "2012-10-01T23:36:01Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > But as a, errr, former college student, a gram is not an insignificant amount. Sure, a dealer will typically have quite a bit more then that and someone going out for a big weekend with some friends will have about three and half grams, but your typical college kid that might get picked up for some random offense that just happens to have some blow in his pocket is probably going to have about a half a gram. I wonder if he’s better off fighting in and hoping the results are inconclusive. You’re compeltely wrong about a gram being a large amount of **street** cocaine. Maybe in the 1980s. Nowadays cocaine at street level, at least in the UK, is maybe 20% purity max and people routinely buy a couple of grams for a night out. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298.md?page=4)