# Really? You didn't mean to hurt anyone by sending them to prison falsely? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 30, 2012, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298 "2012-09-30T07:51:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/61 "2012-10-02T00:41:35Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > So you can only get in trouble if your little baggie with talcum powder says the word cocaine on it? Sorry, I misread your original post. You can only be convicted of _possession with intent to sell_ if the little baggie says “cocaine”. If you do actually _sell_ it you can be convicted of “sale of a substance in lieu of a controlled substance” under F.S. 817.563. Both carry identical penalties to the actual sale of the equivalent drugs, though, so **grude** is correct. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/62 "2012-10-02T01:20:25Z")
What a dumb ass law. I’ve never seen a package of _real_ coke labeled “coke”. I have to wonder whether anyone in the history of the world has been dumb enough to be convicted because of sticking a label on a bag of flour. ---
**Author:** ![Harmonix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Harmonix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonix)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/63 "2012-10-02T01:46:21Z")
> [@Simple\_Linctus](#): > > You’re compeltely wrong about a gram being a large amount of **street** cocaine. Maybe in the 1980s. Nowadays cocaine at street level, at least in the UK, is maybe 20% purity max and people routinely buy a couple of grams for a night out. I’m here in the U.S. I recently met someone who tried coke here in the U.K, than again here in the U.S. He said that it’s unanimously known that cocaine is much stronger here in the U.S than in UK. Apparently it’s because we’re much closer here in California to the Cartels so there are fewer middle men cutting the product. Made sense to me. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/64 "2012-10-02T01:49:34Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Which is why she’ll probably get a slap on the wrist. :rolleyes: So, kinky now passes for jurisprudence? ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/65 "2012-10-02T05:01:55Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > That’s crazy talk. Who keeps their child sex slave at work? Kiddie porn makers? ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/66 "2012-10-02T07:03:09Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > What a dumb ass law. I’ve never seen a package of _real_ coke labeled “coke”. I have to wonder whether anyone in the history of the world has been dumb enough to be convicted because of sticking a label on a bag of flour. I once knew somebody who bought a vial full of mint leaves, thinking they were getting pot. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/67 "2012-10-02T14:51:01Z")
Help me out here. Not being terribly experienced with many recreational drugs, I have no idea how big a gram is. Are we talking the size of a marble? A grape? A golf ball? A grapefruit? How many lines in a gram? Don’t need answer fast, I’m just trying to visualize it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/68 "2012-10-02T14:53:07Z")
Smaller than a marble. A cubic centimeter (or milliliter) of water (which is denser than most powdered things) weighs exactly one gram. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/69 "2012-10-02T14:57:01Z")
A paperclip usually weighs at or a little over a gram. So, it’s really a minute amount of stuff. Remember, a kilogram is about 2.2 pounds so a gram is equal to a thousandth of that if that helps visualize it. As for the thread title, I think it’s obvious that she knew people would get hurt before she got found out and now she’s just trying to scrounge up some pity. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/70 "2012-10-02T15:22:45Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Smaller than a marble. A cubic centimeter (or milliliter) of water (which is denser than most powdered things) weighs exactly one gram. Wow. And that’s considered enough for a night of partying? ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/71 "2012-10-02T15:26:04Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Smaller than a marble. A cubic centimeter (or milliliter) of water (which is denser than most powdered things) weighs exactly one gram. But this lightly compacted powder when you buy it. A gram, I’d say, is about the size of a marble maybe a bit bigger. Much smaller then a golf ball though. As for how many lines, that depends on the person. I’ve seen people say “OMG, my friend got a gram and made two giant lines out of it and him and his girlfriend each did it in one giant snort.” It’s also going to go further if you chop it up finer. Chopped up really fine, 1.5-2 inches long, maybe a big bigger around then an ink tube from a pen, kinda like [this](http://thegatewaypundit.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Cocaine.jpg) (which I don’t think is actually coke, looks like baking soda), maybe, what, 20-30 lines. Basically, it’s enough to get to casual users though a week OR weekend or a not so casual user though a heavy night of partying. On preview, your partying comment wasn’t there when I typed this. I should probably point out that a gram, when I was in college was between 60 and 90 dollars. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/72 "2012-10-02T15:27:54Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Wow. And that’s considered enough for a night of partying? When you chop it up as fine as possible, there is more there than you would think. Yet, no, not enough for a night of partying non-stop. From what I’ve heard, people drink, dance, chat, and occasionally toot. ETA: Yeah, what Joey P said. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/73 "2012-10-02T15:34:35Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > kinda like [this](http://thegatewaypundit.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Cocaine.jpg) OK, that looks like a lot. I could make a lot of biscuits with that. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/74 "2012-10-02T19:55:48Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > OK, that looks like a lot. I could make a lot of biscuits with that. That’s a razor blade in that picture, to give you the proper proportion… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/75 "2012-10-02T21:35:14Z")
In her defense, according to noted legal scholar Edwin Meese they wouldn’t be suspects if they weren’t already guilty. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2012, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/76 "2012-10-03T02:38:32Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > That’s crazy talk. Who keeps their child sex slave at work? Bring your child sex slave to work day! ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2012, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/77 "2012-10-03T03:05:34Z")
In principle, I’m annoyed that this kind of corruption was unchecked for so long. Pragmatically speaking though I can’t bring myself to feel badly about drug cases being thrown out. What I’m most surprised about is that defense did not do their own tests. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2012, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/78 "2012-10-03T03:10:08Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > What I’m most surprised about is that defense did not do their own tests. I rather doubt an attorney would be allowed to possess a sample of illegal narcotics for testing purposes. There would also be the whole chain of custody thing to deal with. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2012, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/79 "2012-10-03T12:40:58Z")
> [@j666](#): > > I have a bit of experience in labs, but not in criminal evidence labs. > > Most test sample preps required around a gram or so, for results in the parts per thousand or percent range; I don’t imagine any case going to trial would involve less than that. > > Most accredited labs have to run test samples from the accreditation agency quarterly or so, but they are to verify the results within a required range. They are not “blind” test samples. However, the last accredited lab I worked in put “blind” test samples through the system. > > Every test analyzed on an instrument (as opposed to by wet chemistry) should be traceable - the instrument keeps a record of every run, with the sample name and the analyst. One can easily mislabel a run, but any negative result should still show up. The analyst should not have “extra” of a known positive sample to run as another sample. She could, actually. The most time-consuming aspect of testing tends to be the prep work – weighing samples, dissolving, mixing and diluted them – that kind of stuff – and that’s probably what she wanted to skip. I could envision her taking 20 samples to test, but only actually preparing five of them, for instance, then putting vials in the HPLC or whatever as if they had come from all 20 solutions when they had only come from five. Such a scenario would be relatively difficult to detect and could go some way to explaining why it took so long for her to be found out. > [@](#): > > Any sample analyzed for use in a court case must have a clear chain of custody, so every one who handles the sample can be traced. Most have custody seals applied as soon as they are taken. Right. Now here’s the thing. Especially with samples of presumed controlled substances, all samples should be weight controlled, double and triple checked. In other words, she should not be able to get away with pretending to take 1.5234 g of sample B25 without actually doing so, because there should be someone else coming along later to re-weigh the bulk sample and determine that yes, in fact, there is 1.5 or so grams less of it now than there was earlier. And if the technician is provided a pre-weighed sample of about 1.5 grams in its own little labelled vial, then there has to be some kind of direct supervision to ensure the sample is all consumed in the testing the way it’s supposed to be. That’s the part, to me, where I assume there must be some severe problem with how the lab itself is being run. > [@](#): > > What I find absolutely astonishing is that > [she falsified paperwork](http://www.patriotledger.com/topstories/x1526501229/Two-forced-out-in-state-crime-lab-scandal-third-faces-dismissal) after a discrepancy that indicated results may have been falsified was noted. > Falsifying records is bad enough, but trying to do so after the problem had been detected is just mind-boggling stupid, or indicative of an incredibly corrupt culture. I cannot understand how she even had access to the log book if her name were on the analyses for any of those 90 samples. > > I know that lab techs are pushed constantly to increase their “productivity”. Yeah, that was something I always found awful about working in quality control, even with a much better controlled environment than this woman must have worked in. I remember when they installed a new time-auditing system in one lab I worked in – it depended on the first analysts doing a particular test to set the standard for the system, so this one guy who was incredibly slow just guarded “his” product jealously without letting anyone else do any testing on it (or ever working on anything else), so the system never picked up that he was taking twice as long to do each test as anyone else would have done. It was incredibly obvious to the other technicians, though. ---
**Author:** ![Molesworth\_2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9dc877/32.png) [@Molesworth\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Molesworth_2)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2012, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/80 "2012-10-03T15:58:15Z")
What a vile woman. She’s sent many innocent people to jail. Doubtless some of them suffered assaults while they were there. Possibly got raped. Possibly killed. Definitely scarred for life. I’m usually not one to say that the law should make an example of someone, but in this case I’ll join the “lock her up and throw away the key” crowd. What a depressing and outrageous story. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298.md?page=5)