# Really? You didn't mean to hurt anyone by sending them to prison falsely? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 30, 2012, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298 "2012-09-30T07:51:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2012, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/81 "2012-10-03T17:15:35Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > I rather doubt an attorney would be allowed to possess a sample of illegal narcotics for testing purposes. > There would also be the whole chain of custody thing to deal with. Defendants in criminal matters are generally are entitled to have their own experts inspect any evidence proferred by the government. In drug cases, courts usually require that inspection and testing be done at the government’s facility and under government supervision, however (to take care of the possession and custody issues). [State v. Cloutier](http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=3193107922238105818&hl=en&as_sdt=2&as_vis=1&oi=scholarr), 302 A.2d 84 (Me. 1973) includes a good explanation. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/82 "2012-10-04T04:05:11Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > There’s another whole level involved here. If I’m reading the article correctly, Dookhan would sometimes falsify records using other testers’ identity. That means that it’s not just every test that Dookhan conducted that’s now worthless. A good lawyer can now make a case that any test conducted by Hinton State Laboratory Institute during the nine years Dookhan worked there might have been one of the ones she falsified even if it was some other employee on record for having done the test. You gotta admire that kind of dedication to fucking things up. Most inveterate fuck-ups satisfy themselves with just fucking up their own work irretrievably, but it takes something else to fuck up the whole company, all in a day’s work. Hats off. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/83 "2012-10-06T02:53:13Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Interestingly, I recently watched a Law & Order about this very thing. Actually, it was about fingerprint evidence, not drugs. > > OK, it’s just a TV show, but L&O is pretty good about staying true to life. I am certainly willing to believe that samples are given to technicians with a little nudge and wink about giving the low life criminal scumbag a “fair test.” Which is why the techs should have had NO CONTACT with officers or prosecutors; one courier officer should have brought the evidence to the sample tech. The sample tech should not have done any testing. No one should have had access to the lab other than the chemists who worked in the lab; even chemists from other labs in the building wouldn’t have access. This isn’t just about chain of custody and preventing corruption as you suggest; those drugs are valuable and the chemists are not paid a lot. > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > She could, actually. The most time-consuming aspect of testing tends to be the prep work – weighing samples, dissolving, mixing and diluted them – that kind of stuff – and that’s probably what she wanted to skip. I could envision her taking 20 samples to test, but only actually preparing five of them, for instance, then putting vials in the HPLC or whatever as if they had come from all 20 solutions when they had only come from five. > > Such a scenario would be relatively difficult to detect and could go some way to explaining why it took so long for her to be found out Sample prep: she wasn’t doing acid digestions on soil for metals, though. She was working with cocaine or heroin cut with one or more common compounds. I don’t know, but the prep might be no more than a dilution. The samples were run on GC-MS, weren’t they? Much better resolution, easier prep. The drugs aren’t pharmaceuticals with all kinds of excipients for taste and compressing and delayed released. She could prep one sample and run it five times, BUT she couldn’t be certain that one sample was positive. If she ran one negative sample for four others, she would have ended up with atypical and unexpected negative results, that **would** have raised a red flag sooner. > [@](#): > > Right. Now here’s the thing. Especially with samples of presumed controlled substances, all samples should be weight controlled, double and triple checked. In other words, she should not be able to get away with pretending to take 1.5234 g of sample B25 without actually doing so, because there should be someone else coming along later to re-weigh the bulk sample and determine that yes, in fact, there is 1.5 or so grams less of it now than there was earlier. Roughly, yes. The amount of the sample is always noted, whether as “two four oz. jars” or “10.230 g”. The chemist takes a subsample and records the weight; the custodian reweighs the main sample when it is returned. The weights are probably not verified unless there is a problem. The chemist only uses part of the subsample for the prep. Probably half to a tenth of the subsample is just waste. The weight of the waste may or may not be tracked; it should be. All the weights - sample receipt, sample check out, subsample, analytical sample, subsample excess, sample return - should be on balances with print outs. In most labs, the sample preps (dilutions, usually) are reserved until the instrument analysis is completed, in case there is any question about the result, and the instrument runs overnight. I don’t think it could work this way in this case. The instrument should run under supervision, and the sample preps sent to waste. Destruction of the sample should be verified by a second person. > [@jackdavinci](#): > > In principle, I’m annoyed that this kind of corruption was unchecked for so long. Pragmatically speaking though I can’t bring myself to feel badly about drug cases being thrown out. > > What I’m most surprised about is that defense did not do their own tests. They’re not cheap and I doubt most defendants could afford the tests and the best attorneys. Most probably pled out. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/84 "2012-11-29T11:54:19Z")
[Update](http://news.yahoo.com/nearly-200-released-result-drug-lab-scandal-203526336.html): > [@](#): > > **Nearly 200 released as result of drug lab scandal** > > BOSTON (AP) — Nearly 200 inmates have been released from prison and their cases put on hold as a result of a Massachusetts state drug testing lab scandal. > > Public Safety Secretary Mary Beth Heffernan told lawmakers at a public hearing Wednesday that while investigators are looking at about 34,000 cases overall, 195 individuals have been released, 79 in Boston. > > Heffernan said their release doesn’t mean they have been exonerated. She didn’t say what kinds of crimes they had been convicted of, but said they could be under alternative forms of supervision as they await future court hearings to resolve their cases. More at the link. Good job, Ms. Dookhan. :rolleyes: Hey, here’s an odd question. Is it possible that criminal Dookhan must forfeit the pay she received while she was busily ruining other people’s lives? ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/85 "2012-11-29T15:07:23Z")
They should take all those suspended sentences and add the time to hers. I wonder if she’ll warrant protective custody in prison. I can’t imagine that she’d be left alone by other inmates after pulling this kind of shit. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/86 "2012-11-29T15:55:55Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > [Update](http://news.yahoo.com/nearly-200-released-result-drug-lab-scandal-203526336.html): > More at the link. > > Good job, Ms. Dookhan. :rolleyes: > > Hey, here’s an odd question. Is it possible that criminal Dookhan must forfeit the pay she received while she was busily ruining other people’s lives? Doubt it but IIRC you can be personally sued for deliberate criminal acts and the defendant would not be able to hide behind city/county/employer like a simple error or oversight that caused a loss would. I would imagine we will be seeing a giant class action suit against the lab, her, and the agencies that engaged that labs services. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/87 "2012-11-29T16:16:33Z")
The employee’s commission of a criminal act takes her outside the scope of her employment. If she is personally liable, the state won’t be, and unless all those people are really stupid they won’t be arguing that she is liable. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/88 "2012-11-29T16:46:34Z")
Well, in this case, it seems that the employer is also liable because they didn’t do a damn thing to supervise or even verify Dookhan’s work. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/89 "2012-11-29T19:17:42Z")
It seems impossible the lab didn’t have complacency in her crime considering how many more tests she claimed to have done than anyone else. Most likely they were back logged, and the work was getting “done” so the supervisors looked the other way to not make waves, but eventually the house of cards came crashing down. I think they should bury her underneath the jail, what a horrible thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/90 "2012-11-29T19:25:55Z")
… and then pretend they were looking for her. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/91 "2012-11-29T21:45:28Z")
They should send her away forever and make sure she is in general population. Let THEM take care of her. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/92 "2012-11-29T21:47:33Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > It occurs to me that a number of people are culpable in this case: > [ol][li]The cretin who falsified the tests, of course.[/li][li]Her supervisors for not verifying her credentials in the first place.[/li][li]Her supervisors again for not monitoring her.[/li][li]Her supervisors yet again for simply accepting her astronomical workload completed as though that’s not a red flag.[/li][li]Her supervisors once more for not taking action when “some irregularities” were reported to them over the course of a couple of years.[/li][li]The courts for not verifying her credentials when certifying her as an expert witness.[/ol][/li] > You hope her supervisors also lose their jobs? Heck, I hope her supervisors go to jail along with her! This. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/93 "2012-11-29T22:18:38Z")
> [@Blackberry](#): > > I hope someone fucks with the evidence in her court case too. I’d like to see a technical expert testify that she ran Auschwitz, and then the Allied high command hang her. Afterward we will all admit it was an error and no harm had been intended. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/94 "2012-11-30T02:18:33Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > They should send her away forever and make sure she is in general population. Let THEM take care of her. Okay. This is the kind of crap that disgusts me as much as, if not more than, the stupity of the cretin in question. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/95 "2012-11-30T02:50:59Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Okay. This is the kind of crap that disgusts me as much as, if not more than, the stupity of the cretin in question. Some people seem to feel they have to take their outrage up to eleven. Personally, I think Annie Dookhan committed a serious crime and should be tried and given an extended prison sentence. But let’s keep it in perspective. She’s not Pol Pot. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/96 "2012-11-30T14:44:52Z")
When you have lost your job, your home, and your family, along with everything you ever worked for because of this idiot whose motivation was to make a name for herself at your personal expense and tragedy maybe you would think differantly ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/97 "2012-11-30T14:49:56Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > When you have lost your job, your home, and your family, along with everything you ever worked for because of this idiot whose motivation was to make a name for herself at your personal expense and tragedy maybe you would think differantly As I said, I’d fully support her being sent to prison for twenty years. But I still feel that there’s a limit to my outrage. What she did was really wrong - but it’s not as bad as being a serial killer. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/98 "2012-11-30T14:57:05Z")
How about not judging things on that scale? I mean, nothing is as bad as Hitler, right? ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/99 "2012-11-30T17:24:12Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > As I said, I’d fully support her being sent to prison for twenty years. But I still feel that there’s a limit to my outrage. What she did was really wrong - but it’s not as bad as being a serial killer. No but a serial life destroyer. As you would well understand, going to jail for any period of time of more than a couple months is going to seriously derail your life. If false convictions were obtained on her test results (there are other powdered drugs that a patient reconstitutes with water and injects). If she says its cocaine not the methylprednisone that a suspect has an Rx for, she has, purely for the sake of a better raise review, created an extremely expensive disaster for the suspect. Toss this to a single mother registered nurse: kids end up in foster care loses her RN licence home forecloses family assumes she did this to herself Employers shy away from people who have done time, even if they do get a full pardon later. People talk about getting killed over the contents of your wallet This lady intentionally destroys hundreds if not thousands of lives for an extra couple thousand a year in pay. The price for her to send someone to jail falsely ends up being about $5-10. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298/100 "2012-11-30T17:51:17Z")
I wonder if she’s just a sociopath, or maybe there is a tiger mom angle to the story… still hard to imagine what could possibly be going through her brain. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/really-you-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-by-sending-them-to-prison-falsely/636298.md?page=6)