# reasoning for keyless pushbutton start on cars **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 10, 2019, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasoning-for-keyless-pushbutton-start-on-cars/836846 "2019-07-10T17:08:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![rbroome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@rbroome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rbroome)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2019, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasoning-for-keyless-pushbutton-start-on-cars/836846/61 "2019-07-10T23:52:47Z")
My wife’s car still uses a key. I have been known to get in the car and spend a few seconds searching for the start button. I really like being able to walk up to the locked car, open the door, sit down push start and not have to worry about fishing a key out of my pocket, hitting the right button-you know the one right next to the alarm button-to unlock the car, insert the key and then start. Hey, I lived my life with that method and it works. Keyless is simply better. I never want to go back. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasoning-for-keyless-pushbutton-start-on-cars/836846/62 "2019-07-11T00:06:13Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > I have a 2018 VW Tiguan and it will leave the radio on even when you shut off the engine via the push-button. It does not shut off the radio until you open the driver door. 2017 Nissan Rogue and it’s the sorta same way. The radio stays on _10 minutes_ or until you open the door. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasoning-for-keyless-pushbutton-start-on-cars/836846/63 "2019-07-11T00:22:28Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > [also being rolled out by Lincoln, starting with the Aviator and Corsair.](https://www.lincoln.com/luxury-suvs/aviator/features/technology/) The backup code sounds like a pretty slick idea. I’d worry a bit about forgetting a code that I hardly ever use (due to using the phone most of the time), but you could always write it on a card that you keep in your wallet–no worse than a Tesla in that case. ---
**Author:** ![kayT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayt/32/3633_2.png) [@kayT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayT)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasoning-for-keyless-pushbutton-start-on-cars/836846/64 "2019-07-11T00:26:37Z")
> [@SCAdian](#): > > My previous car came with a fob. I carried it for a week or so, then got tired of having it randomly locking/unlocking the car, arming/disarming the alarm, &c, and threw it in the junk drawer in the kitchen. When I got my new car, the fob went straight to the junk drawer. If your previous car was doing all that then it was broken. Why didn’t you take it in to be fixed? And why do you assume the new car is broken as well? And how do you start your car if the “fob” is in a junk drawer? I guess I just don’t understand. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasoning-for-keyless-pushbutton-start-on-cars/836846/65 "2019-07-11T00:43:59Z")
**Hampshire** , VWs have a long tradition of leaving the radio on after you turn off the ignition. At least now it does turn off when you exit. But yeah in a lot of cars for years now various accessories stay on until you actually open the door, not necessarily just the e-keyed ones either. You are supposed to have a way to change settings so the auto-off arrives quicker but it’s usually a PITA and most drivers just leave it at the stock setting. I’m ok with the keyless systems, they’ve worked fine for me. One thing I’ve noticed is that a lot of vehicles that have it still retain, however, the round blank in the steering box where the old ignition lock would go. I suppose that part is standardized for different variants. My one luddite peeve about e-keys or for that matter e-parking brakes is just my oldfarty inclination towards true manual overrides, whereby I’d like to have a way to turn off my vehicle by physically breaking the circuit (or to use the handbrake as an emergency brake in a controlled fashion rather than all the way on or off). But I already know I’m headed towards a world where even human-driven cars will be drive-by-wire. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasoning-for-keyless-pushbutton-start-on-cars/836846/66 "2019-07-11T00:46:06Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > The backup code sounds like a pretty slick idea. I’d worry a bit about forgetting a code that I hardly ever use (due to using the phone most of the time), but you could always write it on a card that you keep in your wallet–no worse than a Tesla in that case. Ford/Lincoln vehicles have had backup codes since the 1980s. Only to unlock the doors, mind, but you get a card with the code when you buy the car. ---
**Author:** ![PoppaSan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/poppasan/32/189_2.png) [@PoppaSan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoppaSan)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasoning-for-keyless-pushbutton-start-on-cars/836846/67 "2019-07-11T01:07:41Z")
> [@kayT](#): > > If your previous car was doing all that then it was broken. Why didn’t you take it in to be fixed? And why do you assume the new car is broken as well? And how do you start your car if the “fob” is in a junk drawer? I guess I just don’t understand. My theory when I read this is the fob goes into the drawer and everything else is done with the luddite tech equivalent, aka the key. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasoning-for-keyless-pushbutton-start-on-cars/836846/68 "2019-07-11T01:11:46Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > Ford/Lincoln vehicles have had backup codes since the 1980s. Only to unlock the doors, mind, but you get a card with the code when you buy the car. I recall the door code on my ~'92 Super Coupe only being 5 digits, with each digit really only having 5 possibilities (the numbers were paired up 1-2, 3-4, etc.). At 3,125 combinations, that’s probably ok for protecting the inside, but I’d want something a little beefier if it allows driving away. ---
**Author:** ![Mallard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Mallard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mallard)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasoning-for-keyless-pushbutton-start-on-cars/836846/69 "2019-07-11T02:47:22Z")
I have an ‘18 Acadia and what I hate is the stupid manual lock that’s under the door handle and nearly impossible to use. If you’re ever forced into a position of having to use it (sometimes underground parkades cause you to lose satellite connection and the remote key entry won’t work) I defy anyone to unlock that Acadia manually without scratching the snot out of the paint. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasoning-for-keyless-pushbutton-start-on-cars/836846/70 "2019-07-11T02:57:43Z")
> [@Sigene](#): > > Is it really what the customers want? I do think so. You know, it was only about three years ago that I got my first keyless vehicle. Took me about a week to get used to it, but after that week, I absolutely fucking love it. Part of it is having two little children. They’re now 5 and 3, but especially when they were still in a carrier, it was so much each not having to fumble around with keys to open the door, take them in and out of my pocket, etc. I just stick them in my pocket, press a button to open the doors, fasten my kids in, sit down, press a button to start the car. I can better deal with carrying stuff to the car without having to put it down to awkwardly fumble with the keys. To me, it was a night-and-day difference, and I just absolutely love the proximity sensors and keyless entry and start. And there’s no issue with batteries. When they run out, pop open the fob and put in a new one. No big deal. And I did once have one die on me, so I just popped open the key that is embedded in the fob to open the door and did the “touch the fob to the button” routine to start the car to get home to replace the fob battery. I will never go back to key-only entry if I can avoid it. ---
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasoning-for-keyless-pushbutton-start-on-cars/836846/71 "2019-07-11T04:02:40Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > I have almost the opposite fear. Not that I’ll start the car from the house and leave the keys in the house (never happens - I can’t start it unless the fob is actually inside the car) but that I’ll leave the car while it is still running, leading to dangerous levels of carbon monoxide in the garage. > > I haven’t done it yet, but it’s more likely now that I don’t have to disengage the keys from my car after driving. Not too common but it does happen, at least often enough for the automakers to be considering automatic shutoffs. Meanwhile, they can just blame the drivers. [link](https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a28222496/new-york-times-auto-shutoff-cars/) ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasoning-for-keyless-pushbutton-start-on-cars/836846/72 "2019-07-11T05:46:51Z")
> [@Mallard](#): > > I have an ‘18 Acadia and what I hate is the stupid manual lock that’s under the door handle and nearly impossible to use. If you’re ever forced into a position of having to use it (sometimes underground parkades cause you to lose satellite connection and the remote key entry won’t work) I defy anyone to unlock that Acadia manually without scratching the snot out of the paint. Huh? This car uses a satellite connection to unlock the door? Really? My car has never had a problem in underground garages. And the door handle unlock is simple to use. ---
**Author:** ![pullin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c57346/32.png) [@pullin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pullin)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasoning-for-keyless-pushbutton-start-on-cars/836846/73 "2019-07-11T10:08:48Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Tesla Model 3. And it is awesome. Makes even keyfobs feel like ancient technology. No starter button, either–just get in, “shift” into drive, and go. When you stop, you put it in park and leave. The car locks and goes to sleep when you go out of range. > > There’s a credit card sized backup key in case your phone dies or for valets, etc. But I’ve almost never needed it. Fight my ignorance, please. How does the car know it’s you? Is there something else besides the backup key that identifies you as “someone who gets to drive me”? Zero experience with Teslas, sorry. To the OP: My beef with the keyless, push-button start has to do with our hybrid. If you don’t know what to look for on the dash, it’s impossible to tell whether it’s on or off. I get in my wife’s car, push the button, and some lights come on. I just grab the gear handle and shift to reverse. Presumably, it won’t let me do this if it’s still off. I’m never really sure if I’ve turned it off when I park it. I’m hoping it will object if I leave it running and try to either walk away or lock it from outside. My preference would be two buttons. One labeled “start” and one labeled “off”. Seems simple enough. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasoning-for-keyless-pushbutton-start-on-cars/836846/74 "2019-07-11T11:37:02Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > I guess the concern is that “75-year-old father” won’t notice the dashboard warning before he parks the car and shuts the engine off - at which point he’s in a bit of a pickle. That’s exactly what happened to him. It probably doesn’t happen to 65 year old Sr. Cheesesteak, but keyless cars didn’t exist at that point. The physical disconnection of the car from the the device that allows operation of the car introduces problems that simply do not exist with an old style key. It’s the price of convenience. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasoning-for-keyless-pushbutton-start-on-cars/836846/75 "2019-07-11T11:40:07Z")
> [@pullin](#): > > Fight my ignorance, please. How does the car know it’s you? Is there something else besides the backup key that identifies you as “someone who gets to drive me”? The phone is the primary identifier. If you run out of battery you use the backup key. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasoning-for-keyless-pushbutton-start-on-cars/836846/76 "2019-07-11T11:54:07Z")
> [@pullin](#): > > Fight my ignorance, please. How does the car know it’s you? Is there something else besides the backup key that identifies you as “someone who gets to drive me”? > > Zero experience with Teslas, sorry. you “pair” your phone with the car (not sure if bluetooth or WiFi) and it detects when the phone is in proximity. get in, sit down, buckle up, and go. ---
**Author:** ![pullin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c57346/32.png) [@pullin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pullin)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasoning-for-keyless-pushbutton-start-on-cars/836846/77 "2019-07-11T12:31:31Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > you “pair” your phone with the car (not sure if bluetooth or WiFi) and it detects when the phone is in proximity. get in, sit down, buckle up, and go. Thank you (and **Nava** too). Didn’t realize the phone was the “key”. ---
**Author:** ![SmellMyWort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasoning-for-keyless-pushbutton-start-on-cars/836846/78 "2019-07-11T15:33:16Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > Ford and GM cars will also sound the horn if you exit the vehicle and close the door while it’s on, and the fob is no longer inside the car. My Nissan and Suzuki do as well. But the one time in over 10 years with keyless start that I’ve been stuck in a running car without the key, my wife was in the passenger seat with the key in her purse and I dropped her off somewhere. No audible warning that I remember and I didn’t notice the blinking light on the info screen until I was a couple blocks away and she was already inside. Luckily I was close enough to home to just drive there and grab my key. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasoning-for-keyless-pushbutton-start-on-cars/836846/79 "2019-07-11T20:18:30Z")
A couple of comments: - The keyless fob may be cheaper for the car manufacturer than an actual ignition key. Have you sen one of those removed from the vehicle? Intricate device, with seemingly dozens of wires running to it – that can’t be cheap to make. (From what I remember – newer computerized cars may have less complex ignition switches.) - about replacements costing $500-$700: to the manufacturer (& dealer), that is a feature, not a bug – almost entirely profit for them. (And in the future, when car thieves have a small hand-held device that can emulate your fob, then the car manufacturers will sell you the upgraded option: a high-security fob package that prevents this. Unitl the thieves get their upgraded hacker device.) ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasoning-for-keyless-pushbutton-start-on-cars/836846/80 "2019-07-11T20:34:51Z")
> [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](#): > > - about replacements costing $500-$700: to the manufacturer (& dealer), that is a feature, not a bug Might be…if it were true. Outside of dealership prices for high end luxury cars, I haven’t heard of prices that high. And not most of the time even then. And they can be less expensive if you don’t get it replaced at the dealership. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasoning-for-keyless-pushbutton-start-on-cars/836846.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasoning-for-keyless-pushbutton-start-on-cars/836846.md?page=5)