# reasoning for keyless pushbutton start on cars **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 10, 2019, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasoning-for-keyless-pushbutton-start-on-cars/836846 "2019-07-10T17:08:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasoning-for-keyless-pushbutton-start-on-cars/836846/101 "2019-07-25T21:10:51Z")
> [@Sigene](#): > > Not sure that convenience is worth the $600-800 vs. a key, but I’ve mellowed considerably. If you’re talking about fob replacement costs, that’s more than double what I’ve been quoted and quadruple what I’ve actually paid. The last two used cars I’ve bought came with only one fob, and we needed two. Although the dealerships (Nissan and Toyota/Lexus) wanted around $300 each, by buying blank fobs online and having an independent locksmith program and cut the mechanical key hidden inside, I ended up paying about half that or less. You have to be careful that the fob you buy works on the right frequencies for your car, and not all locksmiths can cut that special key, but otherwise it’s no big deal. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasoning-for-keyless-pushbutton-start-on-cars/836846/102 "2019-07-25T22:43:02Z")
> [@Dongyang2016](#): > > My parents have a push button ignition. I don’t care for it and wouldn’t particularly want one. I like keys and the security of keys. Keys have been a part of cars for a hundred years, why now change it? > > This was my late mother’s car and she would freak out if the key was missing. Which brings me to my next point, spending over a $100 or whatever it is to have to go to the dealership to get a new key made. Would just rather have regular keys that cost $5 to reproduce at the hardware store. > > You need the key anyway, so why is this an improvement, plus having to spend 20 times more to have the key replaced if lost? Doesn’t sound like that much of a deal to me. Because I don’t have to dig around through my bags and pockets trying to find the key to ether start the car or open the doors- because I haven’t seen proximity locks with an ignition key. Plus, I won’t have the problems that sometimes results when you have a keyring hanging from the ignition. (something about the weight of the keys) ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasoning-for-keyless-pushbutton-start-on-cars/836846/103 "2019-07-26T03:50:34Z")
One thing about keyless ignition, it eliminates the following common thriller scenario: Prospective victim is running from the serial killer (in high heels, no doubt.) She reaches the car, and has to dig in her purse for the key. She is so scared she can’t get the key in the lock. If she is the heroine, she does it just in time. If she isn’t she doesn’t. With keyless entry, she gets right in, locks the door, and the killer shouts “no fair!”. The other thing is the the little stupidity of characters leaving their cars unlocked so they can get into them without slowing down the action is gone. You put a beep on the soundtrack and Bib’s your uncle. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasoning-for-keyless-pushbutton-start-on-cars/836846/104 "2019-07-26T11:04:59Z")
> [@Sigene](#): > > I’ve had the car for a month or more now and am getting used to is. I still walk away from it without locking it because the key isn’t in my hand when I exit the vehicle. It may come down to deliberately developing a new habit. When I exit my car, I push the door-lock button on the inside of the door after I’ve opened it, but before I’ve even stepped out of the car. This is kind of an automatic thing for me. > [@Dongyang2016](#): > > I like keys and the security of keys. Keys have been a part of cars for a hundred years, why now change it? Go back and read through this discussion, and you’ll see the answers to your question. In short, it’s far more convenient; most car owners agree that life is better with keyless entry/ignition. Your logic is specious; it’s like saying “written records have been a part of business for a hundred years, why now use computers?” There are pros and cons, and most people find that the pros vastly outweigh the cons. > [@Dongyang2016](#): > > Which brings me to my next point, spending over a $100 or whatever it is to have to go to the dealership to get a new key made. Would just rather have regular keys that cost $5 to reproduce at the hardware store. Do you lose your keys a lot? I can’t remember the last time I lost mine. > [@Dongyang2016](#): > > You need the key anyway, so why is this an improvement, plus having to spend 20 times more to have the key replaced if lost? Doesn’t sound like that much of a deal to me. You really can’t see why it’s so much nicer to not have to dig through a pocket/purse to take out your car key for unlocking/starting a car? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasoning-for-keyless-pushbutton-start-on-cars/836846/105 "2019-07-26T11:44:02Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > It may come down to deliberately developing a new habit. When I exit my car, I push the door-lock button on the inside of the door after I’ve opened it, but before I’ve even stepped out of the car. This is kind of an automatic thing for me. No external sensor on the exterior door handle? My habit is as yours, except I simply wave my hand near the external sensor outside the car. If I don’t have a key in my pocket (e.g., I’ve used the keypad), then I use the interior switch to lock the doors. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasoning-for-keyless-pushbutton-start-on-cars/836846/106 "2019-07-26T12:16:22Z")
yeah, that. A lot of cars will have a small button or touch pad on the exterior door handle, press/touch it after exiting the vehicle and it’ll lock the doors. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasoning-for-keyless-pushbutton-start-on-cars/836846/107 "2019-07-26T12:32:41Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > No external sensor on the exterior door handle? My habit is as yours, except I simply wave my hand near the external sensor outside the car. If I don’t have a key in my pocket (e.g., I’ve used the keypad), then I use the interior switch to lock the doors. There is a sensor on my exterior door handle for unlocking the car: wrap fingers around handle, car looks for/sees fob, unlocks door just before you actually pull on the handle. There is a pushbutton on my exterior door handle for locking the car. But using it requires turning around and accurately placing my finger on that button before turning around again to walk away; I’ve found it’s just quicker to use the button on the inside of the door as I’m getting out, all in one sort of fluid motion. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasoning-for-keyless-pushbutton-start-on-cars/836846/108 "2019-07-26T12:47:57Z")
> [@Dongyang2016](#): > > My parents have a push button ignition. I don’t care for it and wouldn’t particularly want one. I like keys and the security of keys. Keys have been a part of cars for a hundred years, why now change it? > > This was my late mother’s car and she would freak out if the key was missing. Which brings me to my next point, spending over a $100 or whatever it is to have to go to the dealership to get a new key made. Would just rather have regular keys that cost $5 to reproduce at the hardware store. > > You need the key anyway, so why is this an improvement, plus having to spend 20 times more to have the key replaced if lost? Doesn’t sound like that much of a deal to me. You know that scene in a movie where someone pulls a few wires out from under the dash and hot wires the car? Or takes a big screwdriver, pops the lock out of the steering column, sticks the screwdriver in, and starts the car? That’s how secure the regular keys we’ve used for a hundred years were, even with the adoption, in the 1960s or '70s, of the steering lock. A competent crook could defeat them in minutes or even seconds. In addition to all the convenience features people have mentioned here, the fobs include a chip that overrides the car’s immobilizer feature and lets the engine start. Without the fob, a crook can screw around with wires and the steering column all he wants. The car isn’t going to start. I presume that that’s the primary reason the tech was implemented; the convenience features were just nice additional selling points. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasoning-for-keyless-pushbutton-start-on-cars/836846/109 "2019-07-26T13:25:38Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > No external sensor on the exterior door handle? My habit is as yours, except I simply wave my hand near the external sensor outside the car. If I don’t have a key in my pocket (e.g., I’ve used the keypad), then I use the interior switch to lock the doors. Yeah, that seems odd to me. If you can unlock the car without getting your keys out (which you should be able to do, as that’s half the point of these keyless fob systems), I would assume there’s a way to lock the door as well (typically a button, or just a touch sensor on the handle.) ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasoning-for-keyless-pushbutton-start-on-cars/836846/110 "2019-07-26T13:42:19Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > In addition to all the convenience features people have mentioned here, the fobs include a chip that overrides the car’s immobilizer feature and lets the engine start. Without the fob, a crook can screw around with wires and the steering column all he wants. The car isn’t going to start. > > I presume that that’s the primary reason the tech was implemented; the convenience features were just nice additional selling points. That sort of chip tech was embedded in keys before keyless entry/ignition became a thing. If you have a conventional mechanical key, and it’s got a big molded plastic head on it without any buttons, that’s almost certainly got a VATS chip embedded in it: > **[Understanding Transponder Key Systems - Pop-A-Lock](https://www.popalock.com/franchise/charlotte-county-fl/local-locksmith-blog/understanding-transponder-key-systems/)** > [@Pop-A-Lock](#): > > Today’s automotive transponder system consists of the electronic chip key, the antenna ring (induction coil) around your ignition, your car’s computer (ECM - Engine Control Module), and the immobilizer. Once a programmed key is inserted into the ignition lock cylinder and turned to the ON position, the antenna ring sends out a burst of energy through radio frequency. The transponder chip will absorb that energy and send back a radio frequency signal, the identification code, to the antenna ring. The antenna ring sends that ID code to the car’s computer. If the ID code from the key matches the ID code in the computer’s memory, the immobilizer is disabled and the vehicle will start. No battery was required in this type of system. Keyless entry (i.e. a small remote control with buttons to lock/unlock the car doors) developed in roughly the same timeframe. My early 2000s Maxima had a VATS key that you inserted and turned to start the car, but it also included a separate fob on the keyring that you could use to lock/unlock the doors. That fob included a battery, but the battery could be dead (or the fob could be gone), and you would still have been able to start the car with just the key. The successor to this was keyless ignition that we’re talking about in this thread. In this case, the system is looking for a unique ID signal from the fob before it will permit the engine to run - the only difference is that instead of having the driver turn a mechanical key to ask the car to ping the VATS chip and make the engine crank, the driver pushes a button to ask the computer to ping the fob and make the engine crank. AIUI, these keyless ignition fobs are not passive devices like the VATS key system described above; they rely on their internal battery to let them generate and broadcast a unique rolling-code sequence whenever the car yells out “hey fob, send me your code.” In the event that the fob has a dead battery, these systems usually have a backup method that allows the fob to be placed in a particular location in the cockpit for passive detection, enabling the car to still be started. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasoning-for-keyless-pushbutton-start-on-cars/836846/111 "2019-07-26T14:58:20Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > I resisted the fob in the beginning, thinking it silly and overengineered. Then I got a car with one, and in short order hated to drive a car with a key anymore. For me, it’s just so convenient. I had the same exact experience. I drive our cars until they drop, so I was used to circa-2000 technology in cars. A lot has changed since then! And yeah … there was some retraining. I treated my fob like physical keys for a few weeks. Didn’t hurt anything or make things harder … just a little extra mental overhead. But after those few weeks, I started naturally and unconsciously using the fob as a fob. I really didn’t have to make a conscious adjustment – the retraining, in other words, was easy, intuitive, and done in the background of my mind. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasoning-for-keyless-pushbutton-start-on-cars/836846/112 "2019-07-26T14:58:31Z")
Thanks for pointing out the distinctions between all those different systems and their histories, **Machine Elf**. My apologies for conflating a few of them. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasoning-for-keyless-pushbutton-start-on-cars/836846/113 "2019-07-26T18:12:56Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > One thing about keyless ignition, it eliminates the following common thriller scenario: > > Prospective victim is running from the serial killer (in high heels, no doubt.) She reaches the car, and has to dig in her purse for the key. She is so scared she can’t get the key in the lock. > If she is the heroine, she does it just in time. If she isn’t she doesn’t. > With keyless entry, she gets right in, locks the door, and the killer shouts “no fair!”. That scenario is completely unimportant, until it is. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasoning-for-keyless-pushbutton-start-on-cars/836846/114 "2019-07-29T15:02:28Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > 1. Perhaps it is a littler bulkier, but it’s more comfortable in the pocket than keys. And a fob won’t scratch your cell phone or stab you in the leg like a key might. My car has a ‘switchblade’ key so there’s nothing sharp to stab me in the leg. I keep my keys in my front pocket, it’s not in my front pocket when it’s in the ignition & I’m sitting in the car. Therefore, my key is _more_ comfortable than your fob. Also I used to cary a small Swiss Army knife, but now you can’t even go to a baseball game with such a ‘weapon’; The key is useful in opening shrink wrapping or taped boxes. > [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > 1. Why would you put it on the console? The point of these things is that they stay on your person, your bag or your purse. There should be no reason to take it out of your pocket unless you’re using the remote start. And even then, it should be back in your pocket by the time you reach the vehicle. > 2. There is absolutely no reason why you would need to store a spare key on the vehicle. People did this in the past in case they locked their keys in the car. That is no longer possible with the fob. There’s no longer any reasonable explanation for having a hidden key on your car. I’ve stated before, I somewhat regularly & intentionally lock my key in my car. When I go running, I take the cheapie, chipless key that is smaller, lighter, & waterproof (no electronics) that will only unlock the door & work the accessories (windows & radio) It’s easy to tie it into my laces, or put in that _tiny_ key pocket inside my shorts, where a fob won’t even fit. ---
**Author:** ![kayT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayt/32/3633_2.png) [@kayT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayT)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasoning-for-keyless-pushbutton-start-on-cars/836846/115 "2019-07-29T20:03:05Z")
So you carry a key (or a fob) when exercising? Why? Does your car not have a keyless entry keyboard? ---
**Author:** ![lingyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d2c977/32.png) [@lingyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lingyi)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasoning-for-keyless-pushbutton-start-on-cars/836846/116 "2019-07-29T20:27:52Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > There is a sensor on my exterior door handle for unlocking the car: wrap fingers around handle, car looks for/sees fob, unlocks door just before you actually pull on the handle. > > There is a pushbutton on my exterior door handle for locking the car. But using it requires turning around and accurately placing my finger on that button before turning around again to walk away; I’ve found it’s just quicker to use the button on the inside of the door as I’m getting out, all in one sort of fluid motion. On my Honda, it works like you’ve described. There’s lock I can use the regular key on, but no button. Since it takes a couple of seconds for the lock to open when I use my hand, if it’s raining I remotely unlock the door. Another advantage to having a keyless remote. The doors automatically lock once the car is moving and unlock when I park. When I exit, the doors lock and the lights blink once I’m a few feet away. Also, I found out by mistake (I valet parked and forget to give my keys) that if I leave the window(s) open and walk away from the car, anyone trying to open the door sets off the alarm. When I first got the car, I thought I wouldn’t like it, but now I love my keyless remote and features. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasoning-for-keyless-pushbutton-start-on-cars/836846/117 "2019-07-29T20:49:55Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > I’ve stated before, I somewhat regularly & intentionally lock my key in my car. When I go running, I take the cheapie, chipless key that is smaller, lighter, & waterproof (no electronics) that will only unlock the door & work the accessories (windows & radio) It’s easy to tie it into my laces, or put in that _tiny_ key pocket inside my shorts, where a fob won’t even fit. My car has a bracelet that looks like a fitbit I can use to enter the car after running, swimming, etc. It allows me to lock the fob in the car. (in theory, I haven’t actually tried to use it yet) ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasoning-for-keyless-pushbutton-start-on-cars/836846/118 "2019-07-29T21:48:31Z")
> [@Sigene](#): > > I still walk away from it without locking it because the key isn’t in my hand when I exit the vehicle. My car just locks itself automatically when I walk more than a few feet from it. It will even lock if I get out, close the door and walk back to the trunk( which then itself promptly opens at the push of a button ). It’s the lazy man’s dream :). ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasoning-for-keyless-pushbutton-start-on-cars/836846/119 "2019-07-29T23:32:36Z")
> [@kayT](#): > > So you carry a key (or a fob) when exercising? Why? Does your car not have a keyless entry keyboard? Who does that besides Ford? > [@Procrustus](#): > > My car has a bracelet that looks like a fitbit I can use to enter the car after running, swimming, etc. It allows me to lock the fob in the car. (in theory, I haven’t actually tried to use it yet) I’ve never heard of that, what do you drive? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasoning-for-keyless-pushbutton-start-on-cars/836846/120 "2019-07-29T23:44:24Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > I’ve never heard of that, what do you drive? I have a Jaguar iPace. Here is a link showing the same product for a different model > **[What is the Jaguar Activity Key?](https://blog.consumerguide.com/what-is-the-jaguar-activity-key/)** > > For active-lifestyle types and other folks who participate in activities where carrying a traditional key fob is a burden, Jaguar offers an intriguing new solution. Per Jaguar, its new Activity Key… Makes living life to the fullest even easier. For... [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasoning-for-keyless-pushbutton-start-on-cars/836846.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasoning-for-keyless-pushbutton-start-on-cars/836846.md?page=7)