# Reasons why bigfoot might exist. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 5, 2003, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasons-why-bigfoot-might-exist/211599 "2003-11-05T19:18:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Raythe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9de0a6/32.png) [@Raythe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raythe)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2003, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasons-why-bigfoot-might-exist/211599/1 "2003-11-05T19:18:29Z")
Eight Reasons Why Bigfoot Might Be Real: 1. Jane Goodall is a believer. 2. 30 [?] policemen have reported seeing a Bigfoot. 3. Over 1000 good-quality sightings have been reported. 4. Sightings go back 200 years—Native Americans’ further. 5. Certain creature-characteristics would make hoaxing difficult, e.g.: Height (often 8 feet!), Girth, Stride, Weight, & Stench. 6. Hoaxing of many footprints in remote locations is unlikely. 7. There’s no convincing imitation of the ape in Patterson’s film. 8. The positron emission profiles of Chinese Wildman hairs match one another, but don‘t match any known animal’s. For supporting detail, visit this web-page: \ Eight More Reasons Bigfoot Might Be Real: 1. 25 hair samples analyzed by reputable experts: “unknown animal” or “unknown primate”; artificiality unlikely. Hairs were found in circumstances that virtually rule out hoaxing. 2. Expert DNA analysis of Yeti-hair root: “unknown animal.” 3. Piles of human-shaped but gigantic poop have been found. 4. Twisted trees & branches + BF heard limb-snapping. 5. Longitudinal dermal foot ridges: unique & not likely hoaxed. 6. Dogs often fear the scent of Bigfoot, when brought to a site. 7. Thousands of borderline encounters reported: unusual sounds, stenches, rocks thrown, “beds” found, strangely killed animal remains (liver removed, placed in tree), etc. 8. Audiotapes of Bigfoot calls that have withstood analysis by sound experts & been endorsed by others who’ve heard BF. Your thoughts on this would be appreciated pro or con with the reasoning as to why if possible…Thanks Raythe ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Daddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Bruce\_Daddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Daddy)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2003, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasons-why-bigfoot-might-exist/211599/2 "2003-11-05T19:19:55Z")
I’m convinced. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2003, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasons-why-bigfoot-might-exist/211599/3 "2003-11-05T19:33:09Z")
Dear **Raythe** — Cite? You see, here at the SDMB, we like a little bit _more_—say, _proof_? How 'bout a body to dissect? No body? No body, no Biggie. Detailed critique to follow. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2003, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasons-why-bigfoot-might-exist/211599/4 "2003-11-05T19:40:32Z")
> [@](#): > > Piles of human-shaped but gigantic poop have been found. I get a mental image of these huge turds shaped like Richard Nixon. ---
**Author:** ![krazy\_kat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b2d939/32.png) [@krazy\_kat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/krazy_kat)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2003, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasons-why-bigfoot-might-exist/211599/5 "2003-11-05T19:47:22Z")
I would like to see picture of this so-called human-shaped but gigantic poop. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2003, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasons-why-bigfoot-might-exist/211599/6 "2003-11-05T19:56:54Z")
[http://www.skygaze.com/content/strange/Wildman.shtml](http://www.skygaze.com/content/strange/Wildman.shtml) > [@](#): > > Li Jian, a historian of science and secretary general of the Society for the Survey and Research of the Chinese Wildman, told the New York Times that microscopic comparison of eight such hairs with samples from human beings, apes, goats, and pigs had indicated the “wild man is in the middle between bears or apes and human beings.” > > Biologists at East China Normal University used a scanning electron microscope to examine yeren hairs which they compared to samples of human and primate hairs. Their conclusion: the former were neither human nor known primate hair but from an unrecognized primate with a morphological affinity to humans. A primate cannot be “in the middle” between bears and apes. Bears did not evolve into apes. Bears took a completely different evolutionary path, starting with “miacids”. [http://www.excite.sfu.ca/projects/exwork/best/bearden/evolve.htm](http://www.excite.sfu.ca/projects/exwork/best/bearden/evolve.htm) All the “Chinese Wildman” hairs prove is that there’s possibly a new species of undiscovered primate out there, a not unreasonable possibility. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2003, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasons-why-bigfoot-might-exist/211599/7 "2003-11-05T19:58:50Z")
Sorry, I was addressing #8, “The positron emission profiles of Chinese Wildman hairs match one another, but don‘t match any known animal’s.” Didn’t make that clear. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2003, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasons-why-bigfoot-might-exist/211599/8 "2003-11-05T20:05:19Z")
It sure would make great strives in explaining my old boss. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2003, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasons-why-bigfoot-might-exist/211599/9 "2003-11-05T20:16:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Raythe \* > \*\*Eight Reasons Why Bigfoot Might Be Real: > > 1. Jane Goodall is a believer. > 2. 30 [?] policemen have reported seeing a Bigfoot. > 3. Over 1000 good-quality sightings have been reported. > 4. Sightings go back 200 years—Native Americans’ further. > 5. Certain creature-characteristics would make hoaxing difficult, e.g.: Height (often 8 feet!), Girth, Stride, Weight, & Stench. > 6. Hoaxing of many footprints in remote locations is unlikely. > 7. There’s no convincing imitation of the ape in Patterson’s film. > 8. The positron emission profiles of Chinese Wildman hairs match one another, but don‘t match any known animal’s. > > For supporting detail, visit this web-page: \ > > Eight More Reasons Bigfoot Might Be Real: > > 1. 25 hair samples analyzed by reputable experts: “unknown animal” or “unknown primate”; artificiality unlikely. Hairs were found in circumstances that virtually rule out hoaxing. > 2. Expert DNA analysis of Yeti-hair root: “unknown animal.” > 3. Piles of human-shaped but gigantic poop have been found. > 4. Twisted trees & branches + BF heard limb-snapping. > 5. Longitudinal dermal foot ridges: unique & not likely hoaxed. > 6. Dogs often fear the scent of Bigfoot, when brought to a site. > 7. Thousands of borderline encounters reported: unusual sounds, stenches, rocks thrown, “beds” found, strangely killed animal remains (liver removed, placed in tree), etc. > 8. Audiotapes of Bigfoot calls that have withstood analysis by sound experts & been endorsed by others who’ve heard BF. > Your thoughts on this would be appreciated pro or con with the reasoning as to why if possible…Thanks Raythe \*\* Rebuttals– 1A) So what? Science doesn’t run on “belief”, it runs on _evidence._ Citing a famous person to support an argument doesn’t prove a thing. And Dr. Goodall doesn’t know _squat_ about North American wildlife. It could be a bear, for all _she_ knows. 2A)Which policemen? Where? When? I know cops that can’t be trusted not to blow away a little kid’s Golden retriever, merely because they’re panicky. And if they saw a “bigfoot”, why didn’t they shoot him? 3A) Define 'good quality". 4A)No, Bigfoot plays no role in Native American beliefs. Claims that it does do not appear earlier than 1950. And if people saw _something_ 200 years ago, so what? Why, in 200 years of overhunting & wildlife depleation hasn’t one single hunter brought in one single carcass? 5A)Hoaxing is _not_ difficult, if the hoaxer is the one filing the report. If not, well, judging height can be difficult, & stage actors change posture & stride every day. The rest can be accounted for by a decent costume. as for the smell, ever hear of a “skunk”? Hell, you don’t even need that! Just a moldy old bearskin that’s started to smell! 6A) Hoaxing of footprints is easy! They’re just marks in the dirt, & “remoteness” doesn’t enter into it. 7A)WTF? this part of your post is incoherent. Enhance, please. 8A) Prove your understanding of your cited “evidence”. What do positron emmissions have to do with animal fur identification? And, why wasn’t DNA testing, a far more refined technique, used instead? 1B)What “experts”? What are their qualifications? Where and when were these samples found? By whom? How many different animal species were they compared to? Being “unknown” doesn’t mean it was Bigfoot. 2B) Being “unknown” doesn’t mean it was a Yeti. _Or_ Bigfoot. 3B) And this proves what? It’s the size of the large intestine that counts here. That cr@p could have come from a fat tourist from the Bronx. 4B) No, _tree limbs_ were heard snapping. I’ve heard snapping tree limbs near my home. We live 700 yards from downtown. i don’t think it was Bigfoot. :dubious: 5B) Explain your term–prove you even understand your cited material. Then prove it wasn’t a badly-executed hoax; that the hoaxers weren’t trying for a _normal_ foot shape, & merely screwed up. 6B) Dogs _also_ fear wolves, coyotes, mountain lions, bears and skunks. Proves nothing. 7B) Even you admit these are “borderline”–thus, not acceptable even to you. Boy Scouts have a tradition of a ghost-boogy called Cricket Man. They tell spooky campfire stories about them, & Scoutmasters scare the sh#t outta them by moaning outside the tents. Is Cricketman real? Only desparate fanatics assert eveidence that they themselves reject. 8B) What are they comparing them to? What standard is used? The big evidence that there is no bigfoot is this: for centuries, we have been destroying our natural environment, & killing everthing we can see to shoot at. There are people who shoot stray cows. There are people who shoot little kids’ kites clean outta the sky. During the Orson Wells _War Of The Worlds_ radio broadcast, local farmers fired shotguns at windmills, because they mistook them for Matian Invader Tripod War Machines! There are people who will shoot at anything! So, why no body? Because there ain’t no Bigfoot to produce no body. Oh, BTW, this is the Straight Dope Message Board. We aren’t impressed by numbered lists. ---
**Author:** ![Maxwell\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Maxwell\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maxwell_Edison)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2003, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasons-why-bigfoot-might-exist/211599/10 "2003-11-05T20:18:42Z")
There was a time when gorillas were thought to be creatures of myth. And I always thought it odd that the large primates like gorillas were mostly located in the southern hemisphere. There might be some sort of undiscovered primate living in North America/northern hemisphere, but until there is definitive proof, probably in the form of a body, I must remain skeptical. Maybe if they exist, they are wily enough to stay one step ahead of encroaching civilization, or bury their dead. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2003, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasons-why-bigfoot-might-exist/211599/11 "2003-11-05T20:25:22Z")
> [@](#): > > 1. Jane Goodall is a believer. So what? Just because a Famous Person believes something doesn’t make it true. Nancy Reagan believed in astrology. That doesn’t prove astrology is true. > [@](#): > > 30 [?] policemen have reported seeing a Bigfoot. Policemen have also reported seeing UFOs. That doesn’t prove that UFOs are real. > [@](#): > > 1. Dogs often fear the scent of Bigfoot, when brought to a site. Dogs often fear the scent of a cougar or bear, too. So what? Just because a dog whines and tucks its tail doesn’t prove that a Bigfoot had been there. ---
**Author:** ![bayonet1976](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/77aa72/32.png) [@bayonet1976](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bayonet1976)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2003, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasons-why-bigfoot-might-exist/211599/12 "2003-11-05T20:34:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Raythe \* > \*\*3. Piles of human-shaped but gigantic poop have been found. > \*\* I don’t know that I can take credit for all instances of this one, but at least some are sure to be mine. I am something of a legend in the producing of gigantic poop. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2003, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasons-why-bigfoot-might-exist/211599/13 "2003-11-05T20:37:35Z")
Nobody believed in the gorrilla either in the early 1900’s, until we shot one. Animals can be very elusive, how many of those who do not think it is possible, actually have personally seen a bobcat, badger, wolverine, a bear, and an ermine in the wild(not in a zoo?) If there are only a few hunded of them, and they are nocturnal and dont want to be seen, very very few people will see them. The sightings of bigfoot go back way before the tourist trade, when there was no incentive to make up such a story. Accounts of bigfoot by indians and by president Teddy Roosevelt are more convincing to me. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2003, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasons-why-bigfoot-might-exist/211599/14 "2003-11-05T20:40:45Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Raythe \* > \*\* > 3. Piles of human-shaped but gigantic poop have been found._\* In all seriousness, if I was out camping the day after I had black beans (or almost any kind of beans)… Well, that could have been me. No joke. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2003, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasons-why-bigfoot-might-exist/211599/15 "2003-11-05T21:13:14Z")
Is anyone else thinking “Weapons of Mass Destruction”? ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2003, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasons-why-bigfoot-might-exist/211599/16 "2003-11-05T22:05:27Z")
**Eight _More_ Reasons Bigfoot Might Be Real** [list=1][_]George Lucas had to get the idea for Chewbacca from somewhere. It’s obvious from his last few movies that he doesn’t have that much imagination.[_]No dead Bigfoot has ever been found. Therefore, Bigfoot must still be alive.[_]Eight thousand New Age zealots can’t be wrong![_]Sassaquatch is really neat, he is full of Yeti meat.[_]It would just be so sad if he weren’t real. Therefore, he is.[_]“Bigfoot” is in the dictionary, and we all know the dictionary doesn’t lie.[_]I once heard a story about someone who met a Bigfoot from someone who lived next to a guy whose friend heard the story from an uncle (no kidding). Who could make that up?[_]Liam Neeson. I mean, just look at him.[/list=1] **Five Reasons Bigfoot Might Be A Republican** [list=1][_]He’s really tall, with excellent hair.[_]He doesn’t care where he leaves his footprints.[_]You can never find him when you really want him.[_]Seeks reduction or elimination of all capital gains and estate taxes.[_]Did I mention he’s tall?[/list=1] **Five Reasons Bigfoot Might Be A Hippie-Ass Freak** [list=1][_]Smells bad.[_]Long hair.[_]Nudism.[_]Thinks he’s one with the Indians.[_]Patchouli-scented dung.[/list=1] **Five Reasons Bigfoot Might Be The Unabomber** [list=1][_]Lives in the woods.[_]Er, that’s it, really.[/list=1] ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2003, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasons-why-bigfoot-might-exist/211599/17 "2003-11-05T23:45:52Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Maxwell Edison \* > \*\* There was a time when gorillas were thought to be creatures of myth._\* By European visitors. The Africans who actually lived in the area had no doubt whatsoever about them. They saw gorillas all the time. And while gorillas are shy, if you really set out to track them down, you’ll find them - they leave nests, droppings, tracks. Other large animals that escaped detection _by Europeans_ for a long time, like the okapi or the sao-la, were also well known to the local inhabitants, and specimens were captured fairly quickly once sufficient effort was put into it. There is no serious possibility that an animal the size of a Bigfoot could escape being tracked down in the areas it’s supposed to live in, given the amount of effort that’s been put into it. > [@](#): > > \*\*And I always thought it odd that the large primates like gorillas were mostly located in the southern hemisphere. \*\* Untrue; modern non-human primates are mostly tropical, living on both sides of the equator. The only non-human primates that extend a substantial distance into the temperate zone are the Japanese macaques, in the northern hemisphere. ---
**Author:** ![bonzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@bonzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bonzer)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasons-why-bigfoot-might-exist/211599/18 "2003-11-06T00:42:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Raythe \* > 8. The positron emission profiles of Chinese Wildman hairs match one another, but don‘t match any known animal’s. Even if true, so what? The existence of a “Chinese Wildman” doesn’t have a great deal to do with a possible Bigfoot. And, aside from this and Jane Goodall’s interest, the other 6 reasons could equally apply to the Loch Ness Monster. Which, since the loch isn’t nowhere near as big as the western United States, is surely easier to catch. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasons-why-bigfoot-might-exist/211599/19 "2003-11-06T01:11:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Susanann \* > **Nobody believed in the gorrilla either in the early 1900’s, until we shot one.** The first gorilla specimens were collected by Paul du Chaillu in Gabon in the 1850s. See my previous comment on the subject. > [@](#): > > \*\*Animals can be very elusive, how many of those who do not think it is possible, actually have personally seen a bobcat, badger, wolverine, a bear, and an ermine in the wild(not in a zoo?) \*\* The issue isn’t whether a casual observer is likely to see one, it’s whether a determined effort by an experienced tracker or hunter will locate one. All those animals can be found and caught by people who know what they’re doing. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasons-why-bigfoot-might-exist/211599/20 "2003-11-06T01:46:24Z")
I too think the most compelling agument for their possible existance is how weak the “we would have caught one by now” argument is. Let’s look a _common_ animal first. Our great glorious moose. Even if Bigfoot is 8 feet tall, the moose is still massive in comparison. There are by fish and game reports 10,000 moose in NH. I’ve never seen (a live) one outside a zoo despite several trips to the north country, which is where most of them live. Talking to people I’ve met many others who have never seen these gigantic can’t-miss-them creatures. Most people who have seen them in places other than salt licks, have only seen them a handful of times. How can they hid on us? Lots of woods. I don’t think it’s insane to think that a habitat large enough to shelter something much bigger than bigfoot is too small to keep a bigfoot-sized animal completely hidden from view. Especially if the creature is as intelligent as a primate. Elephants keep their dead pretty well hidden, and they’re not that bright. Then there’s the fact that not only are we discovering new species all the time, some of them are large mamals, like deer. The Okapi, for example wasn’t dicovered until 9001, the giant panda in 1869, The Kouprey (an ox type) in 1937, The Bongo (antelope) in the 1950’s, the The Spindlehorn in **1992** and then there are the species of deer and phesant discovered in Vietnam only a few years ago [http://coombs.anu.edu.au/~vern/species.html](http://coombs.anu.edu.au/~vern/species.html) Do I really think that bigfoot will be discovered some day too? Probably not. But it’s remotely possible. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reasons-why-bigfoot-might-exist/211599.md?page=2)