# Reassure Me of My Sanity \[perceptions of "Pirates of the Caribbean" vs. actual Somali pirates\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 29, 2009, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reassure-me-of-my-sanity-perceptions-of-pirates-of-the-caribbean-vs-actual-somali-pirates/504662 "2009-07-29T12:46:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reassure-me-of-my-sanity-perceptions-of-pirates-of-the-caribbean-vs-actual-somali-pirates/504662/1 "2009-07-29T12:46:46Z")
And yes, this is Great Debates material, I believe. I had a discussion with an online acquaintance a while back. Or rather, she posted a rant, and I felt compelled to respond, and I was left wondering how any reasonable person could hold the position that she put forth. Piracy! Specifically, the Somali pirates. People condemn them for their actions. But! American movie-going audiences love Johnny Depp as Captain Jack Sparrow. Why the disparity? Racism! Her position is that people approve of the pirate lead character in a Disney movie primarily because he’s white, and disapprove of Somali pirates because they’re black. Does anyone here think the same? MY position for the record is : fiction vs. nonfiction. Fake crimes and real crimes. Of course people like the lead character of a Disney movie, despite an implied criminal career involving murder and robbery. Because his crimes are all fake, and all we really see is him scheming and conniving and getting into goofy pratfalls. He’s safe. It wouldn’t matter if Johnny Depp played him, or Cuba Gooding Jr. He’s socially engineered to be charming. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reassure-me-of-my-sanity-perceptions-of-pirates-of-the-caribbean-vs-actual-somali-pirates/504662/2 "2009-07-29T12:53:00Z")
Uh…fake pirates are sexy. And fun. Honestly, in those movies when did you ever see anyone actually rape anybody, or plunder in a way that didn’t hilariously amuse? Fake pirates are no better than thieves and worse in many ways because they take their prisoners/booty at gun (cannon) point. They’re criminals. It’s not remotely a color thing. Hell, we romanticize hired killers in fiction, really, all levels of criminal scum - is that a black/white thing, too? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reassure-me-of-my-sanity-perceptions-of-pirates-of-the-caribbean-vs-actual-somali-pirates/504662/3 "2009-07-29T12:58:59Z")
You’re right and your friend is wrong. People love movies about dashing criminals, and before movies, they loved stories about them - Robin Hood, anybody? - and some criminals were popular heroes. They tend to be much less forgiving of real criminals. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reassure-me-of-my-sanity-perceptions-of-pirates-of-the-caribbean-vs-actual-somali-pirates/504662/4 "2009-07-29T13:03:01Z")
That’s silly. Why do people dislike the Mafia yet love the Sorpranos? Is one group guilty of slightly less wopness than others? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reassure-me-of-my-sanity-perceptions-of-pirates-of-the-caribbean-vs-actual-somali-pirates/504662/5 "2009-07-29T13:17:03Z")
I agree with the others. Even fantasies about rape do not constitute a desire to be raped in reality. A common theme in movies is good versus evil, and in most cases (especially with Disney movies), good wins out. It is also often the case, in my experience, that even ordinarily “evil” characters will be imbued with some form of inherent goodness that mitigates their bad deeds, and leaves audiences with a sense of “One could hardly blame him.” (The movie Slingblade comes to mind.) Real violence, on the other hand, is met with quite a different reaction, and it is not, I think, for most people a matter of race. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reassure-me-of-my-sanity-perceptions-of-pirates-of-the-caribbean-vs-actual-somali-pirates/504662/6 "2009-07-29T13:17:28Z")
Said acquaintance is, in my opinion, always stuck in knee-jerk reactionary mode and looking for things to condemn ‘white, cis-gendered straight males’ for. The only tenuous link to racism I can cobble together is that some of the economic conditions that lead to Somali pirates existing are the result of European colonialism, but I see that matter as entirely separate from ‘how we judge the pirates now’. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reassure-me-of-my-sanity-perceptions-of-pirates-of-the-caribbean-vs-actual-somali-pirates/504662/7 "2009-07-29T13:25:36Z")
In my second paragraph, I of course meant to start with “real” pirates. I just…I’ve got no more to say about this person. Racist because we like pirates! ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reassure-me-of-my-sanity-perceptions-of-pirates-of-the-caribbean-vs-actual-somali-pirates/504662/8 "2009-07-29T13:28:14Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > Said acquaintance is, in my opinion, always stuck in knee-jerk reactionary mode and looking for things to condemn ‘white, cis-gendered straight males’ for. > > The only tenuous link to racism I can cobble together is that some of the economic conditions that lead to Somali pirates existing are the result of European colonialism, but I see that matter as entirely separate from ‘how we judge the pirates now’. Yeah. If she were comparing US attitudes toward Somali pirates and toward, say, the IRA, she’d have slightly more of a case. Still not a very good one, but a little more of a case. Ask her how much general approval from the public she’s heard of the [Posse Comitatus](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_(organization)#Criminal_activities) in the US. Or how many people approve of the actual Mafia. Or, if you want to get into a quintessentially white group that robs helpless people of their money, how many people approve of AIG. Alternately, note with her how popular [Omar from The Wire is with white people](http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/03/09/85-the-wire/), and ask her to explain that. His character is pretty similar to Jack Sparrow in a lot of ways: a wacky trickster outlaw. He’s just slightly more realistic, I’d say, but he has a lot of salient similarities. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reassure-me-of-my-sanity-perceptions-of-pirates-of-the-caribbean-vs-actual-somali-pirates/504662/9 "2009-07-29T13:35:51Z")
Look, I don’t like gory horror movies, but a lot of people do. Does this mean that all of those people are totally cool with having serial killers slaughtering scores of people at a time in the most horrific manners possible? That they’d like to watch, or engage in that sort of thing themselves? No? Well then maybe people can watch Pirate/Mafia/Thief/Scumbag movies without actually thinking that those people would be cool to have around in real life. Movie Pirate = Fantasy = A few hours entertainment = Cool. Real Pirate = Reality = Real People getting killed and hurt = NOT Cool. ---
**Author:** ![Regallag\_The\_Axe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/regallag_the_axe/32/445_2.png) [@Regallag\_The\_Axe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Regallag_The_Axe)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reassure-me-of-my-sanity-perceptions-of-pirates-of-the-caribbean-vs-actual-somali-pirates/504662/10 "2009-07-29T13:36:49Z")
I agree with the majority opinion. Your acquaintance is nuts. * * * Hijack to fight my ignorance: > [@CandidGamera](#): > > ‘white, cis-gendered straight males’ What does ‘cis-gendered’ mean? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reassure-me-of-my-sanity-perceptions-of-pirates-of-the-caribbean-vs-actual-somali-pirates/504662/11 "2009-07-29T13:48:45Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Does this mean that all of those people are totally cool with having serial killers slaughtering scores of people at a time in the most horrific manners possible? That they’d like to watch, or engage in that sort of thing themselves? According to some people, yes. If a person disapproves of your choice of entertainment, naturally you are unable to tell the difference between fantasy and reality. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reassure-me-of-my-sanity-perceptions-of-pirates-of-the-caribbean-vs-actual-somali-pirates/504662/12 "2009-07-29T13:51:48Z")
> [@Regallag\_The\_Axe](#): > > I agree with the majority opinion. Your acquaintance is nuts. > > * * * > > Hijack to fight my ignorance: > What does ‘cis-gendered’ mean? It is the antonym of transgendered. LHOD : I can no longer talk to her - the inherent contradictions she kept presenting overwhelmed my ability to maintain civil discourse. But if I ever run into a similar situation, I will try to remember the example of Omar. ---
**Author:** ![Regallag\_The\_Axe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/regallag_the_axe/32/445_2.png) [@Regallag\_The\_Axe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Regallag_The_Axe)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reassure-me-of-my-sanity-perceptions-of-pirates-of-the-caribbean-vs-actual-somali-pirates/504662/13 "2009-07-29T14:00:54Z")
Thanks. I didn’t know there was a word for that. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reassure-me-of-my-sanity-perceptions-of-pirates-of-the-caribbean-vs-actual-somali-pirates/504662/14 "2009-07-29T14:38:15Z")
For the record, her original rant is here : > **[So, here's what I don't get.](https://angrylemur.livejournal.com/219234.html)** > > In Pirates of the Caribbean , Johnny Depp's character, Jack Sparrow, choses a life of piracy of his own free will (we know it's of his own free will, as we see him offered several chances at a more conventional life/livelihood during the movies, and... I ask that all of you please refrain from making comments on LiveJournal to her - I have no desire to antagonize her further. She and I scrapped quite a bit on racism and sexism issues. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reassure-me-of-my-sanity-perceptions-of-pirates-of-the-caribbean-vs-actual-somali-pirates/504662/15 "2009-07-29T16:09:08Z")
It’s not racist to hate the actions of a group of people who murder, kidnap and steal. The Somali pirates are (IMO) terrorists, albeit on the high seas. What happens in movies (and I cannot stress this enough) is not _real_. People know it is not real. Comparing the two is apples and mangoes. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reassure-me-of-my-sanity-perceptions-of-pirates-of-the-caribbean-vs-actual-somali-pirates/504662/16 "2009-07-29T16:19:14Z")
Coming this summer from Walt Disney Pictures: _Pirates of the [del]Caribbean[/del] Gulf of Aden: We Want $3 Million for this Container Ship_ ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reassure-me-of-my-sanity-perceptions-of-pirates-of-the-caribbean-vs-actual-somali-pirates/504662/17 "2009-07-29T16:28:37Z")
> [@Syntropy](#): > > It’s not racist to hate the actions of a group of people who murder, kidnap and steal. The Somali pirates are (IMO) terrorists, albeit on the high seas. What happens in movies (and I cannot stress this enough) is not _real_. People know it is not real. Comparing the two is apples and mangoes. I read her post. One of her commentors states they are not terrorists, and she quotes them specifically, so I presume she agrees. CG, are we permitted to quote her here? I would like to quote some of her statements. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reassure-me-of-my-sanity-perceptions-of-pirates-of-the-caribbean-vs-actual-somali-pirates/504662/18 "2009-07-29T16:57:23Z")
I think its more to do with romantic notions of the past, particularly OUR past. I’m sure 16th century pirates were just as brutal as their mordern counter parts. But we like to romanticize our past so we come up with this myth of swashbuckling pirates, when the reality was far more hum-drum. Similarly with the US civil war, which has plenty in common with modern civil wars in terms of atrocities, yet we view it as a heroic struggle, whereas modern civil wars are viewed as humanitarian calamities. ---
**Author:** ![gazpacho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6f9a4e/32.png) [@gazpacho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gazpacho)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reassure-me-of-my-sanity-perceptions-of-pirates-of-the-caribbean-vs-actual-somali-pirates/504662/19 "2009-07-29T17:11:33Z")
The pirates are not terrorists. They are pirates. Terrorists are not just people using violence in ways that you don’t like. Terrorists use violence to inspire fear in a population to get the population to give the terrorists more power. Pirates are armed robbers on water. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reassure-me-of-my-sanity-perceptions-of-pirates-of-the-caribbean-vs-actual-somali-pirates/504662/20 "2009-07-29T17:23:08Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > I read her post. One of her commentors states they are not terrorists, and she quotes them specifically, so I presume she agrees. > > CG, are we permitted to quote her here? I would like to quote some of her statements. You can do whatever you want _here_, by all means. 🙂 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reassure-me-of-my-sanity-perceptions-of-pirates-of-the-caribbean-vs-actual-somali-pirates/504662.md?page=2)