# Recalling US currency **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 19, 2019, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recalling-us-currency/845082 "2019-12-19T14:46:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recalling-us-currency/845082/21 "2019-12-20T05:33:47Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Pretty sure that ship has sailed, given that just carrying large amounts of cash has been treated as probable cause to arrest for drug crimes for years. While seizures like this have happened, and are a travesty that needs to stop, most of the time there were other circumstances that lead to them. I simply cannot fathom every single citizen in the country being subjected to interrogation for holding currency without there being mass legal challenges to it. The fact that the OP endorses such fascism is telling. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recalling-us-currency/845082/22 "2019-12-20T05:41:10Z")
> [@BwanaBob](#): > > How could it be illegal? Numerous nations routinely turn over their currency to stay ahead of counterfeiters. Why should the US be the only saps who don’t? … Because the USA has different laws and a Constitution other nations dont (It could be legal, sure, but it could also be illegal too in the USA). We are proud of the fact we have never had to devalue or demonetize our currency. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recalling-us-currency/845082/23 "2019-12-20T05:42:40Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Pretty sure that ship has sailed, given that just carrying large amounts of cash has been treated as probable cause to arrest for drug crimes for years. Can you give us details on this? ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recalling-us-currency/845082/24 "2019-12-20T05:45:50Z")
> [@bump](#): > > The usual US procedure is to just quit making the old style, and let them gradually fall out of circulation through normal wear and tear. The life of a bill in circulation is something like 15 years for $100 bills, and quite a bit less for smaller denominations. Several months ago, I purchased a bag of craft supplies at an estate sale, and found $82 in cash in several envelopes, hidden among the supplies, in fresh, crisp 1984 currency. Because I didn’t find it until I got home, it was mine, and when I spent that money, the cashiers asked if it was real because it didn’t look or feel like current bills. Likewise, Buffalo nickels and wheat pennies don’t look or feel the same as currently minted coins. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recalling-us-currency/845082/25 "2019-12-20T06:04:41Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Can you give us details on this? It happens. It falls under [civil asset forfeitures](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_forfeiture_in_the_United_States). And it is an effective tool against organized crime and drug trafficking. Unfortunately there has been some awful abuses. But as terrible as that is, it happens to a small amount of people, not every freaking citizen of the country like the OP recommends. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recalling-us-currency/845082/26 "2019-12-20T06:14:11Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Can you give us details on this? It is incorrect. The government does not charge you with any crime. The police simply take your money, and the onus is on you to prove the money is not proceeds of a crime. You pay for your lawyer t fight it. The police goal is to take enough money to make it worthwhile, but no so much that it’s worth fighting for if it is legit - so a few hundred to a few thousand. In one case (Texas?), the couple was given the choice to forfeit any claim or get arrested and have their children sent into the CPS syste. Google “asset forfeiture” and be prepared to understand what government of, by, and for the people has become. The Canadian government not long ago issued a warning that travelling in the USA with large amounts of cash was risky, the police could seize it without needing a pretext. Of course, you still must declare any large amounts of currency over $10,000 when crossing the US border (or boarding an outbound aircraft); or else it will be seized. Plus, if it appears that you are “structuring” your transactions to avoid the bank’s obligation to report transactions over $10,000 your money could be seized, and structuring is a crime. If you make large cash transactions, which banks report, you may become the target of an investigation to determine if the money was obtained illegally or in a manner that may have evaded taxes. It seems to em th Canadian bills fall into 3 categories - really really old (the $25 bill), $1 and $2 bills which have been replaced by coins, and really large bills - $500 and $1000 - which most countries no longer produce to limit money laundering and proceeds of crimes. And check out the most recent $1000 bill - years ago you used to read a news story ever year or so of someone confusing a $1000 bill as a $2 bill since the colours are so similar. (The $1000 was slightly pinker and more purple than the deeper reddish $2) Older bills still pass around from time to time in $5, $10, and $20. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recalling-us-currency/845082/27 "2019-12-20T07:02:40Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Note that “legal tender” does _not_ mean that anyone has to accept them for anything other than debt. If you take a Benjamin to the grocery store, they’re free to say “We won’t take that; hand over those groceries and we’ll put them back on the shelves”. They’re free to say “That doesn’t look like the new bills, and we don’t trust the old ones not to be counterfeited”, even if they take (new) 100s. Deep in US Federal Bank regs there are provisions about legal tender, they arent used and there no actual penalties added. Basically if anyone started refusing US tender and demanding gold or Euros, they could be enforced thru added regulations in a few days. But there’s never been a reason to do so, everyone wants dollars. However, if a business doesnt want to handle any cash and just credit, or if a business doesnt want to have change for your C-Note, there’s nothing you can do. You cant make them give you change or even take the currency if they wont give you the stuff in return. That’s not what “legal tender” means. OTOH, the IRS _does_ have to accept your currency, but there’s a limit of what they have to take in coin. Legally, I suppose if your bill was say $87.34 and you handed over a hundred and they said "We dont take hundreds’ and you just walked out with your stuff and left the C-note there, there’s not much they could do either. Theft? “hey that guy took his stuff and paid with this 100 dollar bill!” Cops would just give you a look, and say “You really want to file a complaint”? It’d be a interesting court case. I know a buddy had this happen when he worked at a gas station, they pumped like $80 into the RV, offered a hundred and when he said “We dont take hundreds” they just left it here and drove off. He called me, and I had five twentys, so he made a $20 profit. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recalling-us-currency/845082/28 "2019-12-20T10:27:53Z")
A Washington Post [article from last March](https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/03/04/there-are-more-bills-circulation-than-bills-it-makes-no-cents/) points out that there are more C-notes in circulation than $1 bills. Mostly, this is because of criminal activity, but more recent sources (which I read this past week and can’t find right now; sorry) assert that this is mostly from foreign banks stockpiling them as a hedge against their own currency devaluing. Sticking it to the cartels could set off a chain of unintended consequences. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recalling-us-currency/845082/29 "2019-12-20T11:23:41Z")
While criminal organizations process some profits using cash, not all transactions use cash at all anymore. Furthermore, the large organizations are really good at money laundering. So the cash is converted into monies in bank accounts. If the US were to replace it’s bills with new ones and eventually (after some time) make the old ones redeemable only at certain banks (so that the person and the reason for having so much cash can be checked), this will annoy criminal organizations only as much as anyone else. They will start taking only the new bills in payment at the start of the transition period. Launder all the old bills just like normal. And continue on. Individuals with a lot of cash flying under the radar might have a job cut out for them. E.g., someone sitting on a pile of cash from a Luthansa-style robbery. But it’s not that hard to find someone willing to take the old bills and exchange them for new ones. (But at a substantial discount. A person has to make money, you know.) Note that this was one of the complaints about the Indian money change. The big time crooks were not affected. It just hurt the really small time people. ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recalling-us-currency/845082/30 "2019-12-20T12:51:49Z")
> [@Mark\_Finn](#): > > In 2021, certain Canadian notes will cease to be “legal tender” (i.e. not accepted for payment of debts) - but banks will still accept them. Otherwise - all notes issued by the Bank of Canada since its founding in 1935 are legal tender and have never been recalled. Notes issued prior to that date can still be redeemed at the Bank of Canada. > > [https://www.bankofcanada.ca/banknotes/upcoming-changes-to-legal-tender-status-for-older-bank-notes/](https://www.bankofcanada.ca/banknotes/upcoming-changes-to-legal-tender-status-for-older-bank-notes/) I did not know about this! I guess I’m going to need to spend that wallet full of $25 bills I’ve been walking around with. ---
**Author:** ![Mark\_Finn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/34f0e0/32.png) [@Mark\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mark_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recalling-us-currency/845082/31 "2019-12-20T13:19:11Z")
> [@FinsToTheLeft](#): > > I did not know about this! I guess I’m going to need to spend that wallet full of $25 bills I’ve been walking around with. A collector would pay more than $1000 for each of them. > **[Coins and Canada - 25 dollars - Canadian banknotes of 1935 - Bank of Canada...](https://www.coinsandcanada.com/banknotes-prices.php?banknotes=Canadian_banknotes_of_1935&id_cat=14&id_denom=8)** > > Coins and Canada - 25 dollars - Canadian banknotes of 1935 - Bank of Canada notes price guide and values ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recalling-us-currency/845082/32 "2019-12-20T13:43:30Z")
The problem with money laundering, as much as converting large sums of cash into electrons, is the “laundering” - ensuring there’s a plausible back story as to how this person legitimately has this much money in their possession. ---
**Author:** ![Mark\_Finn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/34f0e0/32.png) [@Mark\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mark_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recalling-us-currency/845082/33 "2019-12-20T15:37:08Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > The problem with money laundering, as much as converting large sums of cash into electrons, is the “laundering” - ensuring there’s a plausible back story as to how this person legitimately has this much money in their possession. Exactly. Suppose you find a suitcase on the street with $1 million in US $100’s, and you don’t want to report it. How would you - as a “civilian” - “launder” it? Maybe stuff it in your mattress, and pull out a thousand or two every couple of weeks and deposit it in the bank (making sure that the serial numbers are random and not in sequence)? Buy some expensive items - but not so expensive that paying for them with cash wouldn’t be suspicious? Buy Bitcoins? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recalling-us-currency/845082/34 "2019-12-20T17:02:37Z")
> [@Mark\_Finn](#): > > Exactly. Suppose you find a suitcase on the street with $1 million in US $100’s, and you don’t want to report it. How would you - as a “civilian” - “launder” it? Maybe stuff it in your mattress, and pull out a thousand or two every couple of weeks and deposit it in the bank (making sure that the serial numbers are random and not in sequence)? Buy some expensive items - but not so expensive that paying for them with cash wouldn’t be suspicious? Buy Bitcoins? Let us not get into discussing how to break the law, eh?😛 What I always say- just deposit it and dont worry about the CTR. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recalling-us-currency/845082/35 "2019-12-20T17:52:03Z")
> [@Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](#): > > One of the US’ largest exports is little pieces of paper with 100s printed on them. Sometimes you’ll hear about ‘trade deficits’, which is basically when other countries trade actual goods for these little pieces of paper. People in other countries like to keep them because they expect them to hold value over time. > > Not only would the US lose this huge and little-acknowledged export, but suddenly the flow would reverse and people would trade back these little pieces of paper for actual US stuff. > > Note that a lot of the people holding onto these little pieces of paper aren’t drug dealers, but are ordinary folks in third world countries where hyperinflation is a thing or a fear. These people would find it much harder to cash out than massive drug cartels would. It’s not that huge a US export, paper currency that is, as opposed to foreigners particularly foreign central banks gradually building up book entry $'s assets such as US treasuries. For example US currency in circulation increased $101 bil in 2018 (the change in total held overseas isn’t directly known but was probably somewhat smaller). US goods and services exports that year were around $2.5 tril. > **[Liabilities and Capital: Other Factors Draining Reserve Balances: Currency in...](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/WCURCIR)** > > Liabilities and Capital: Other Factors Draining Reserve Balances: Currency in Circulation: Week Average [https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/statistics/highlights/annual.html](https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/statistics/highlights/annual.html) However with that relatively minor clarification, as it relates to the point at hand, that’s still a lot of money. The people suggesting the US weaken the attractiveness of US paper currency to foreigners as a store of value tend to ignore the fact that it would cost the US real money, $10’s bils per year\* if foreigners stopped demanding to hold US paper currency. There might be benefits to fighting crime (though I both agree with you most foreigners holding US currency are not criminals, and I also doubt how much it would undermine major international criminals not to have to paper USD). And maybe some people really want to impose public policies just to mess with groups they don’t like (‘ultra libertarians’ etc). It seems actually a lot of US politics now is actually that, ‘let’s mess with X’ rather than the quaint idea of policies which promote the general good. Anyway, you can debate the pro’s and cons of making paper money less attractive to hold, or eliminating it, or eliminating large denominations at least. But don’t forget it would cost money to do that, because the US makes money issuing pieces of paper which pay no interest and have no maturity date, as opposed to the $101 bil more of interest bearing (although now low %) debt it would have to have issued instead. \*besides the fact the whole increase was probably not accounted for by increased foreign holdings, you have to also consider the cost of not only printing net new bills but eventually replacing the whole ca. $1.8 tril of bills outstanding every some years. That’s relatively smaller % cost for $100’s overseas than say $1’s domestically. But most foreigners aren’t holding 1928 bills for 90 yrs. Most turn in their $100 bills for new ones every several years, so you have to subtract that cost from the profit. In fact though the _US govt_ doesn’t discount the value of old US bills, money changers in the third world often do. So it’s not $101bil in free money to the govt if the paper money supply increases by that much, but a large % of that number is profit, called seigniorage. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2019, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recalling-us-currency/845082/36 "2019-12-21T18:36:53Z")
> [@Mark\_Finn](#): > > Buy Bitcoins? How do you buy bitcoins with cash? I thought that the exchanges were all electronic, so you still need to convert your paper notes to an electronic medium, like a bank account, then make the e-transfer to the bitcoin exchange? ---
**Author:** ![Mark\_Finn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/34f0e0/32.png) [@Mark\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mark_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2019, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recalling-us-currency/845082/37 "2019-12-21T18:47:31Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > How do you buy bitcoins with cash? > > I thought that the exchanges were all electronic, so you still need to convert your paper notes to an electronic medium, like a bank account, then make the e-transfer to the bitcoin exchange? Insert the cash in a Bitcoin ATM - e.g.: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/_aL_OPx1MSc/maxresdefault.jpg "How to Buy Bitcoin with Cash through a Bitcoin ATM - CoinFlip Cryptocurrency ATM") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aL_OPx1MSc) ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2019, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recalling-us-currency/845082/38 "2019-12-21T18:50:54Z")
Can you do that without an account with the bitcoin atm operator that doesn’t leave an e-trail? What’s the difference between that and depositing to a regular bank? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2019, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recalling-us-currency/845082/39 "2019-12-21T18:55:34Z")
Can you do that without an account with the bitcoin atm operator that doesn’t leave an e-trail? What’s the difference between that and depositing to a regular bank? I would assume that exactly the same reporting requirements for cash transactions would apply to a bitcoin atm as to a bank atm. Eg, if you deposit $1000 in cash every day for eleven days, the bitcoin atm operator should have a mechanism for flagging it as a suspicious structuring transaction, and then file a report. If the bitcoin atm operator doesn’t do that, they’re potentially in trouble themselves. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2019, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recalling-us-currency/845082/40 "2019-12-21T20:42:59Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Can you do that without an account with the bitcoin atm operator that doesn’t leave an e-trail? What’s the difference between that and depositing to a regular bank? > > I would assume that exactly the same reporting requirements for cash transactions would apply to a bitcoin atm as to a bank atm. Eg, if you deposit $1000 in cash every day for eleven days, the bitcoin atm operator should have a mechanism for flagging it as a suspicious structuring transaction, and then file a report. If the bitcoin atm operator doesn’t do that, they’re potentially in trouble themselves. Yes, and you will get reported. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recalling-us-currency/845082.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recalling-us-currency/845082.md?page=3)