# Reccommend Some Classic Film Noir **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 10, 2005, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reccommend-some-classic-film-noir/303205 "2005-05-10T12:22:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Hoodoo\_Ulove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/58956e/32.png) [@Hoodoo\_Ulove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoodoo_Ulove)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2005, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reccommend-some-classic-film-noir/303205/21 "2005-05-10T15:45:50Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > **The Third Man**. Best cinematography, best music, best. Orson’s character is the most perfectly amoral man ever. Valli is heartbreaking beautiful. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2005, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reccommend-some-classic-film-noir/303205/22 "2005-05-10T16:59:40Z")
**Gun Crazy** (dir. Joseph H. Lewis) **Scarlet Street** (dir. Fritz Lang, w/Edward G. Robinson) **Criss Cross** (dir. Robert Siodmak, w/Burt Lancaster) **The Naked Kiss** (dir. Sam Fuller) ---
**Author:** ![vetbridge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5e925/32.png) [@vetbridge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vetbridge)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2005, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reccommend-some-classic-film-noir/303205/23 "2005-05-10T18:03:01Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > I second everything **Big Bad Voodoo Lou** said – with a double vote for _Double Indemnity_, and add _Laura_. And I will second the second on **Big Bad Voodoo Lou** ’s suggestions as well as **twickster’s**. I will also add _The Man Who Wasn’t There_. ---
**Author:** ![Rocketeer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocketeer/32/4437_2.png) [@Rocketeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rocketeer)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2005, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reccommend-some-classic-film-noir/303205/24 "2005-05-10T19:15:18Z")
What, nobody’s mentioned **Detour**? And **DOA** is a classic. Mrs. R, usually a tough sell, liked it a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2005, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reccommend-some-classic-film-noir/303205/25 "2005-05-10T19:37:32Z")
> [@Hoodoo Ulove](#): > > Best cinematography, best music, best. Orson’s character is the most perfectly amoral man ever. Valli is heartbreaking beautiful. And I’ve been on that ferris wheel. I always think of _Double Indemnity_ as the ultimate noir; people scheming to do really rotten things to each other, and you trust people about as far as you could throw them. And after you’ve seen all the movies in this thread, try Steve Martin’s _Dead Men Don’t Wear Plaid_. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2005, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reccommend-some-classic-film-noir/303205/26 "2005-05-10T20:18:42Z")
> [@Robot Arm](#): > > And I’ve been on that ferris wheel. [trivia hijack]The little seen but quite excellent Bond film _The Living Daylights_ has a homage to _The Third Man_ (which is appropriate given its storyline), and shows the same ferris wheel in the background while they’re in Austria. Very cool for fans of _The Third Man_. (The same film also has a blatent homage to _Lawrence of Arabia_ and a rather complex storyline, 'specially for a Bond film.)[/trivia hijack] > [@Robot Arm](#): > > I always think of _Double Indemnity_ as the ultimate noir; people scheming to do really rotten things to each other, and you trust people about as far as you could throw them. I love the way MacMurray always calls Stanwyck, “Baby”, in this totally disaffected tone, as if he doesn’t give a crap one way or another. Great film. I don’t think anyone has yet suggested Clouzot’s _Diabolique_ (not the pointless remake with Sharon Stone), _Sunset Blvd_, and the original _Cape Fear_. The other suggestions in the thread have all been excellent, but my personal favorite is _Out Of The Past_ with Robert Mitchem. “You say to yourself, ‘How hot can it get?’ Then, in Acapulco, you find out.” _The Blue Dahlia_ is a little stilted but quite watchable, and Welles’ _The Lady From Shanghai_ (with then wife Rita Hayworth) is quite enjoyable if not actually a classic. Hey, any film with **The Man** is worth seeing. The newer color films don’t really qualify as _film-noir_ (they’re usally considered _neo-noir_, or in the case of _Blade Runner_ and _Dark City_, _scifi-noir_) but _Chinatown_ and _LA Confidential_ are great ones. Two of my favorites are adapted from Jim Thompson novels: the underrated [After Dark, My Sweet](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0098994/) and the absolutely terrific (both film and the gut-wrenching novel) [The Grifters](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0099703/) with John Cusack, Angelica Huston, and Annette Benning. I saw a showing of this at the Arclight a few years ago and Angelica Huston introduced it with an anecdote about how she and “Marty” (producer Martin Scorsese) had to convince director Steven Frears to cast her in the role by inviting him to dinner and having her dress what she described as an incredibly low-cut, slinky cocktail dress. The Coen Brothers’ _Blood Simple_ is also a good, if not great _neo-noir_ in which there always seems to be one more body than can be legitimately explained or concealed. Most of the Coen’s output (ignoring the last couple of excretions they have shat out) have been noir-ish in theme, but _The Man Who Wasn’t There_ is a great homage to/satire of _noir_ films. The remake of _Cape Fear_ is also worthwhile, as is the little-seen _The Deep End_, which is a redo of the rather tepid _The Reckless Moment_. And Christopher Nolan’s _Following_ and _Memento_ are neo-noirs (although the former is B&W) told with a nonlinear technique, similar to Kubrick’s _The Killing_ (yawn). There are many, many more (it’s my favorite genre) but I think that, in addition to the other many excellent suggestions above should keep you occupied for a bit. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2005, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reccommend-some-classic-film-noir/303205/27 "2005-05-10T20:23:11Z")
> [@Big Bad Voodoo Lou](#): > > The Big Sleep - another great mystery with Bogart as a hard-boiled detective. > > There are others, but those are some landmarks. I love film noir! But be really careful with this one - even the author got confused and couldn’t remember who done it. It is a very confusing story. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2005, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reccommend-some-classic-film-noir/303205/28 "2005-05-10T20:35:04Z")
Oh, I don’t know how I managed to skip over this one but Hitchcock’s [Strangers On A Train](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0044079/), based (more or less) on the Patricia Highsmith novel, is a great _film-noir_ right up until the cop-out ending. I see some asshat named Noam Murro is making a remake slated for 2006. Great. Next thing you know, they’ll be trying to remake _The Big Sleep_ **again**. ::sigh:: [The Asphalt Jungle](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0042208/) is a terrific heist film with Sterling Hayden and Sam Jaffe. Not sure how I or anyone before me overlooked that one. It should be quite high on your list. It has Marylin Monroe in a bit part as a dim blonde bombshell that is just totally appropriate for her. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2005, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reccommend-some-classic-film-noir/303205/29 "2005-05-10T20:43:15Z")
> [@plnnr](#): > > But be really careful with this one - even the author got confused and couldn’t remember who done it. It is a very confusing story. Specifically, he coudn’t remember whether the chauffeur committed suicide or was murdered, and if so, by whom. Still, the high point of that film wasn’t solving the crime (which was deliberately convoluted) but the interaction between Bogart and Bacall. Extra dialogue between the two was added in after principle photography (no doubt spiced up by their off-camera chemistry). Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2005, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reccommend-some-classic-film-noir/303205/30 "2005-05-10T20:47:00Z")
**Stranger** , I’ve seen _The Living Daylights_; never considered it an homage to _The Third Man_, just them having to find some glamorous, but previously unused city for Bond to travel to. I’ve read somewhere that there’s still a theater in Vienna showing _The Third Man_, and I think I passed by it. It would have been cool to see that movie in that place, but I only had a day-and-a-half and couldn’t spare the time. I did try to recite the cuckoo clock speech from memory on the ferris wheel, though. > [@plnnr](#): > > But be really careful with this one - even the author got confused and couldn’t remember who done it. It is a very confusing story. That kinda bothered me the first time I saw it (_The Big Sleep_), but then I realized it didn’t matter. That movie isn’t about the gather-all-the-suspects-in-a-room-and-explain-what-happened scene; the style and dialog is so fantastic that it isn’t necessary. Once you accept that there’s no conventional, satisfying wrap-up, it frees you to revel in how the story unfolds. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2005, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reccommend-some-classic-film-noir/303205/31 "2005-05-10T21:06:16Z")
> [@Robot Arm](#): > > **Stranger** , I’ve seen _The Living Daylights_; never considered it an homage to _The Third Man_, just them having to find some glamorous, but previously unused city for Bond to travel to. Spoiler for those who haven’t seen one or both films:There’s the ferris wheel, the balloon man (in _TLD_ he’s the assassin) plus the general theme of playing one side against the other and perpetrating a scam in order to make a profit (in _TTM_ Lime is selling diluted antibiotics, in _TLD_ Whittaker is making a fraudulent sale of weapons in order to purchase narcotics). Both Lime and Koskov fake their own deaths in order to confound authories, and sacrifice their respective girlfriends in order to seal the deception. Of course, in the end, Anna walks right past Holly Martins, whereas Bond gets the girl (as usual), but the parallels are significant and in the case of the Vienna highlights, deliberate. BTW, Bernard Lee (who plays Bond’s boss “M” throughout most of the Bond series) has a significant role in _The Third Man_ as the Sergeant; however, he’d passed on several years before _The Living Daylights_ was filmed and so didn’t appear in that film. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2005, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reccommend-some-classic-film-noir/303205/32 "2005-05-10T21:09:22Z")
Grr…I meant to put this into the last post, but the Coen film _The Big Lebowski_ is, in part, a deliberate satirical riff on _The Big Sleep_, including its many asides and red herrings and the intentional mess of a plot and lack of resolution. Most people think the movie is a scattered mess, but it is deliberate. Whether the joke is funny or not is dependant upon individual tastes. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2005, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reccommend-some-classic-film-noir/303205/33 "2005-05-10T21:12:46Z")
> [@Stranger On A Train](#): > > …as is the little-seen _The Deep End_, which is a redo of the rather tepid _The Reckless Moment_. _TEPID?!?!?_ The remake pales in comparison to the terrific original (by the always worthwhile Max Ophuls). Hint: If you cast a charismaless void like Goran Visnjic to fill the shoes of James Mason, you know you’re in trouble. Tilda Swinton’s good, though (as usual). And you might-possibly-on-the-outside-remote-chance have a point about Hitchcock’s _Strangers_’ ending if the film was actually a noir–but it’s really not. There were plenty of thrillers back then; they don’t all automatically qualify as “noirs”. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2005, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reccommend-some-classic-film-noir/303205/34 "2005-05-11T00:27:59Z")
> [@Stranger On A Train](#): > > [The Asphalt Jungle](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0042208/) is a terrific heist film with Sterling Hayden and Sam Jaffe. Not sure how I or anyone before me overlooked that one. It should be quite high on your list. It has Marylin Monroe in a bit part as a dim blonde bombshell that is just totally appropriate for her. > > Stranger Another heist film that’s also worth a look (and also starring Sterling Hayden) is Stanley Kubrick’s [The Killing](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0049406/). ---
**Author:** ![pokey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ebca7d/32.png) [@pokey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pokey)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2005, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reccommend-some-classic-film-noir/303205/35 "2005-05-11T03:27:18Z")
My top recomendations are **Out of the Past** which has been mentioned but really it’s all you could ever want and is so easy to find. I love **The Big Heat** because it has steak, hideous facial disfiguration, awesome liptick and Lee Marvin. I also love **The Sweet Smell of Success** featuring the hot and evil Burt Lancaster fetching as hell in ugly glasses. I agree with everything **Stranger** said about how **The Grifters** and **After Dark my Sweet** are great. Jim Thompson rules noir. I read all his books as a teen and that’s how I grew up all wrong. There’s something about The Grifters that sticks with you forever! The movie version of the Grifters is weird because it feels 80s but that’s okay in a way. It feels like whatever time was cool. ---
**Author:** ![Rich\_Mann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ce73a5/32.png) [@Rich\_Mann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rich_Mann)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2005, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reccommend-some-classic-film-noir/303205/36 "2005-05-11T03:43:40Z")
I’d like to fourth or fifth (whatever we’re up to now) **Touch of Evil**. Orson Welles bravely gives himself the most unlikeable of roles and manages to make it almost sympathetic. Watch for the magic trick where the dynamite just ‘appears’ where he expects to find it in a search. For my own contribution; does **Psycho** count as noir? Looks to me like it ought to. Either way a great film. ---
**Author:** ![phouka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c5a1d2/32.png) [@phouka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phouka)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2005, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reccommend-some-classic-film-noir/303205/37 "2005-05-11T04:18:10Z")
I can’t believe someone beat me to _Laura_. So, I guess I’ll have to mention one of the most unusual film noir I’ve ever seen - Lady in the Lake. Shot in first person, as though you, the viewer, are the main character. Very, very strange. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2005, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reccommend-some-classic-film-noir/303205/38 "2005-05-11T07:34:43Z")
> [@ArchiveGuy](#): > > _TEPID?!?!?_ The remake pales in comparison to the terrific original (by the always worthwhile Max Ophuls). Hint: If you cast a charismaless void like Goran Visnjic to fill the shoes of James Mason, you know you’re in trouble. Tilda Swinton’s good, though (as usual). Sorry, gotta stick by my comment. James Mason is excellent in it, of course, but the film is firmly rooted in the morality of the time and the story plods along. _The Deep End_ raises the stakes considerably, and Swinton plays the role of the housewife cum conspirator to a hilt. I especially love how she ends up co-opting Visnjic into helping with her father-in-law. > [@ArchiveGuy](#): > > And you might-possibly-on-the-outside-remote-chance have a point about Hitchcock’s _Strangers_’ ending if the film was actually a noir–but it’s really not. There were plenty of thrillers back then; they don’t all automatically qualify as “noirs”. Well it is…sort of. The film’s _femme fatale_ isn’t a chick, but Bruno, in one of those subversive implied homoerotic relationships that Highsmith loved to write about. Guy is the naïve schlub who gets pulled into the web, et cetera. It’s certainly as much of a noir as, say, _DOA_ or _Cape Fear_ and moreso than _Key Largo_. > [@pokey](#): > > There’s something about The Grifters that sticks with you forever! The movie version of the Grifters is weird because it feels 80s but that’s okay in a way. It feels like whatever time was cool. Yeah, even though we’ve seen it all on Ricki Lake and Jerry Springer, the love triangle between the three main characters and the nihilistic, out of a dark alley ending is just a rabbit punch to the kidney. Everybody I’ve recommened the book to agrees. It’s a pity not all of Thompson’s work was of such caliber, but this one is a veritable Shakespeare of noir. (Cain is great too, even though his work is considerably more literary and often dryly satirical.) The script for the film _The Grifters_ was adapted by Donald Westlake and he does the neat trick of adapting the time period to the 'Eighties while at the same time remaining almost completely faithful to both the spirit and text of the novel, given dialog and situations that are anachronistic and yet still plausible. The end result is that it creates its own world, a sort of Los Angeles out of time where one expects Philip Marlowe to walk right around the corner. That he and director Frears managed to maintain the same dynamic between the characters (especially between Lilly and Myra) and the sucker punch ending is a tribute of vision over the usual Hollywood pandering. Not that it’s an art house film or at all pretentious; it just rolls toward the necessary conclusion without giving way to the normal expectation that things will work themselves out. A real kick-ass film. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2005, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reccommend-some-classic-film-noir/303205/39 "2005-05-11T07:43:16Z")
> [@Rich Mann](#): > > For my own contribution; does **Psycho** count as noir? Looks to me like it ought to. Either way a great film. _Psycho_ starts out pretending to be a noir, but then shifts to a thriller/original slasher flic with the (then) surprising death of a main character when Janet Leigh is stabbed in the shower. It was unheard of then to do such a thing. A good film to be certain (not sure about great; other than Anthony Perkins’ exceptionally creepy performance and the cinematography the film doesn’t actually hold up all that well, especially the hokey explaination in the end) but definitely a groundbreaking film. Another occurs to me that I don’t think anyone has yet suggested, but Kurosawa’s entry into the genre is _Stray Dog_, about a cop who has his pistol stolen by a pickpocket and has to locate and retrieve it. Another entry to the list should be the noir/Western hybrid of John Sturges _Bad Day At Black Rock_, which contains what is unquestionably Spencer Tracy’s best film role. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![mamboman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecb155/32.png) [@mamboman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mamboman)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2005, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reccommend-some-classic-film-noir/303205/40 "2005-05-11T08:38:29Z")
> [@NDP](#): > > Another heist film that’s also worth a look (and also starring Sterling Hayden) is Stanley Kubrick’s [The Killing](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0049406/). I’d certainly second this - not only a template for Kubrick’s later work and obsessions, but also for the slavish tribute _Reservior Dogs_ and _Pulp Fiction_ pay to it. . And a darn good yarn it is, too. mm [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reccommend-some-classic-film-noir/303205.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reccommend-some-classic-film-noir/303205.md?page=3)