# Recent controversial or subversive novels **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 26, 2011, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recent-controversial-or-subversive-novels/604179 "2011-11-26T20:16:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2011, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recent-controversial-or-subversive-novels/604179/1 "2011-11-26T20:16:12Z")
Any recommendations? Most lists out there are for books banned decades ago whose ideas are hardly provocative or mind blowing any more. Doesn’t have to be fiction, though that’s preferred. Should be at least somewhat thought provoking - not just trashy for the sake of trashy or controversial only because the author is dressing up old bigotry in new clothes. I guess there’s two main categories, though I welcome other ideas: 1. Hey that’s a new idea no one has really talked about before 2. No one wants to talk about it, but they go there ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recent-controversial-or-subversive-novels/604179/2 "2011-11-29T17:01:55Z")
Or maybe we’ve truly seen it all, and there’s no revolutionary idea left, no subject or idea that’s still shocking? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recent-controversial-or-subversive-novels/604179/3 "2011-11-29T17:36:35Z")
In the area of novels, I’d say yes. I’ve tried to think of a novel I would consider controversial or subversive, but no dice. I’ve been checking this thread to see if someone else comes up with something, but also no dice. Last one I can think of was that Salman Rushdie novel, but the whole story there was how backward and ignorant the cleric who declared the fatwah was, not Rushdie’s novel. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recent-controversial-or-subversive-novels/604179/4 "2011-11-29T17:49:12Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > In the area of novels, I’d say yes. I’ve tried to think of a novel I would consider controversial or subversive, but no dice. You could say A Million Little Pieces was controversial, in part because it turned out to be a novel. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recent-controversial-or-subversive-novels/604179/5 "2011-11-29T18:00:52Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > You could say A Million Little Pieces was controversial, in part because it turned out to be a novel. Lol. I had considered using that as an example of what I don’t want. Looking for the actual content to be mind blowing rather than the authors own shenanigans. I guess the book doesn’t have to be recent, as long as the modern reader would still be surprised by the content. Maybe that Sam Delaney book would still count. Would it matter if I opened it up to film and other media? ---
**Author:** ![jordanr2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/838e76/32.png) [@jordanr2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jordanr2)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recent-controversial-or-subversive-novels/604179/6 "2011-11-29T18:04:31Z")
Elfriede Jelinek is one good example, I’d say. She won the Nobel Prize, but it was an intensely controversial decision (I think a member of the Academy resigned in protest), and her novels are overall pretty raw and unpleasant. On a similar note, arguably, Charlotte Roche’s _Wetlands_. Others: Thomas Bernhard (at least one of his novels caused a big stir in Austria, if I remember correctly) and Bret Easton Ellis with _American Psycho_ (a bad novel, but it definitely raised a fuss). ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recent-controversial-or-subversive-novels/604179/7 "2011-11-29T18:21:41Z")
Just finished _Limitless_ (originally published in 2001 under the title _The Dark Fields_) by the Irish author Alan Glynn, which inspired the recent movie starring Bradley Cooper and Robert De Niro. The book is a great technothriller about a cutting-edge drug which unlocks the full potential of the human mind - it’s clever and engaging, but quite a bit darker and grimmer than the movie. Much as I enjoyed the book, I actually preferred the movie - one of the few times that’s been so. Both the book and the movie have an interesting dramatic tension between “Illegal drugs are bad” and “Wow, is the guy really going to be able to pull this off?” ---
**Author:** ![psiekier](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psiekier/32/116_2.png) [@psiekier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psiekier)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recent-controversial-or-subversive-novels/604179/8 "2011-11-29T18:35:11Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > Lol. I had considered using that as an example of what I don’t want. Looking for the actual content to be mind blowing rather than the authors own shenanigans. How about [_Freakonomics_](http://www.amazon.com/Freakonomics-Economist-Explores-Hidden-Everything/dp/0060731338/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1322591546&sr=1-1) and [_SuperFreakonomics?_](http://www.amazon.com/SuperFreakonomics-Cooling-Patriotic-Prostitutes-Insurance/dp/0060889586/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1322591546&sr=1-2) They’re non-fiction, but turn a lot of pre-conceived notions upside-down. Do you know how real estate agents are like the KKK, and why a lot of gang members still live at home with their parents? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recent-controversial-or-subversive-novels/604179/9 "2011-11-29T18:40:24Z")
> [@psiekier](#): > > How about [_Freakonomics_](http://www.amazon.com/Freakonomics-Economist-Explores-Hidden-Everything/dp/0060731338/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1322591546&sr=1-1) and [_SuperFreakonomics?_](http://www.amazon.com/SuperFreakonomics-Cooling-Patriotic-Prostitutes-Insurance/dp/0060889586/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1322591546&sr=1-2) They’re non-fiction, but turn a lot of pre-conceived notions upside-down. They’re not novels, but they’re certainly controversial. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recent-controversial-or-subversive-novels/604179/10 "2011-11-29T18:56:11Z")
_The Running Man_ by King-as-Bachmann is pretty subversive. Definitely the story of Everyman against the Evil Corporate-Government Establishment. ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recent-controversial-or-subversive-novels/604179/11 "2011-11-29T19:59:21Z")
Yes but it’s 29 years old, hardly recent. Maybe Chuck Palahniuk’s _Haunted_ (2005) fits the bill? From an [A.V. club review](http://www.avclub.com/articles/chuck-palahniuk-haunted,4537/): > [@](#): > > In his new themed anthology Haunted, Fight Club author Chuck Palahniuk does have a point to make about the self-abasement of modern celebrity, and the current price and nature of fame. But getting to it involves slogging through a mountain of fanatically detailed descriptions of self-mutilation, suicide, murder, gruesome sex, even more gruesome masturbation, corpse desecration and decay, child molestation, cannibalism, and pyrrhic self-annihilation, all piled up to such extremes that it seems like Palahniuk is just double-daring himself to top each new vile degradation with something worse. I can’t say I’ve read it myself. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recent-controversial-or-subversive-novels/604179/12 "2011-11-29T21:23:15Z")
> [@lisiate](#): > > Maybe Chuck Palahniuk’s _Haunted_ (2005) fits the bill? > > I can’t say I’ve read it myself. I have and that review (like all of them relating to Haunted) is a load of hogwash. The “skewering of the modern celebrity” bit was taken from the book jacket, but it was clear the publishers had never read it either. There are a few lines about people believing that once they’re rescued from their self-imposed exile, they’ll become celebrities, but that’s all it is. It actually strains disbelief to hear their reasons why being pseudo-kidnapped will set them up for life. Andy Warhol’s famous quote is 35 years old for a reason. Another recent book or movie did the same “After we’re rescued from our fake kidnapping we’ll be set for life!” think and I didn’t find it any better there either. But I can’t remember what it was. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recent-controversial-or-subversive-novels/604179/13 "2011-11-29T21:32:06Z")
“You know how I feel about fake kidnappings!” - Marge “STILL?” - Homer ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recent-controversial-or-subversive-novels/604179/14 "2011-11-29T22:33:10Z")
_Orxy and Crake_ (2003) by Margaret Atwood. I recently read it for the 2nd time after quite a few years, and was left with an unsettled, queasy feeling for a few days. I don’t think any other book has done that to me. ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recent-controversial-or-subversive-novels/604179/15 "2011-11-29T22:56:20Z")
> [@jordanr2](#): > > Elfriede Jelinek is one good example, I’d say. She won the Nobel Prize, but it was an intensely controversial decision (I think a member of the Academy resigned in protest), and her novels are overall pretty raw and unpleasant. On a similar note, arguably, Charlotte Roche’s _Wetlands_. > > Others: Thomas Bernhard (at least one of his novels caused a big stir in Austria, if I remember correctly) and Bret Easton Ellis with _American Psycho_ (a bad novel, but it definitely raised a fuss). Jelinek and Roche are great examples. I’ll add Michel Houellebecq’s _Platform_ (criticized for being Islamophobic and pro-sex tourism). Jonathan Littell’s _The Kindly Ones_ won France’s most prestigious literary prize but was widely panned in America. Lots of holocaust stuff and incest, etc. I think Kakutani called it repellent. ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recent-controversial-or-subversive-novels/604179/16 "2011-11-29T23:01:41Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > I have and that review (like all of them relating to Haunted) is a load of hogwash. The “skewering of the modern celebrity” bit was taken from the book jacket, but it was clear the publishers had never read it either. There are a few lines about people believing that once they’re rescued from their self-imposed exile, they’ll become celebrities, but that’s all it is. It actually strains disbelief to hear their reasons why being pseudo-kidnapped will set them up for life. Andy Warhol’s famous quote is 35 years old for a reason. > > Another recent book or movie did the same “After we’re rescued from our fake kidnapping we’ll be set for life!” think and I didn’t find it any better there either. But I can’t remember what it was. The Chilean miners come to mind, aren’t some of them back underground? Actually I was putting \*Haunted \*forward more for the second sentence in the quote than the first. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recent-controversial-or-subversive-novels/604179/17 "2011-11-29T23:18:47Z")
Has Card’s [_Empire_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_(2006_novel)) been controversial at all? Seems to have been the author’s intent. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recent-controversial-or-subversive-novels/604179/18 "2011-11-29T23:20:26Z")
Maybe somebody needs to **write** some subversive novels. What’s in greater market demand right now, RW paranoia or LW agitprop? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_A.Robrin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sam_a.robrin/32/14497_2.png) [@Sam\_A.Robrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_A.Robrin)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recent-controversial-or-subversive-novels/604179/19 "2011-11-29T23:36:29Z")
“If you make people think they’re thinking, they’ll love you; But if you really make them think, they’ll hate you.” --Don Marquis That’s probably the quotation I cite most often. Any truly controversial novel would probably be so hated that it would never get published, let alone distributed, sold, and read. ---
**Author:** ![Sr\_Siete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Sr\_Siete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sr_Siete)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recent-controversial-or-subversive-novels/604179/20 "2011-11-30T00:07:19Z")
Salman Rushdie’s **The Satanic Verses** , for one. not that recent, admittedly. Brett Easton Ellis novels, I guess… Maybe some book defending Creationism? Something like **Darwin’s Enigma**? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recent-controversial-or-subversive-novels/604179.md?page=2)