# Recent shootings in US with political motivations... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 15, 2008, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recent-shootings-in-us-with-political-motivations/460111 "2008-08-15T16:48:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![vetbridge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5e925/32.png) [@vetbridge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vetbridge)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recent-shootings-in-us-with-political-motivations/460111/21 "2008-08-18T16:53:47Z")
[QUOTE=CJJ\*] The lazy assumption that “liberals are just as extremist” is belied by the facts. [/QUOTE] I have no problem admitting my laziness, however in this situation, it is not the primary reason for my POV. I infrequently listen to talk radio. If Rush Limbaugh is on, I sometimes agree with what he is saying for a minute or two before he looses me. If Randi Rhodes is on the air, the same exact thing happens. I listen and agree for a short time, then she looses me. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recent-shootings-in-us-with-political-motivations/460111/22 "2008-08-18T19:27:44Z")
[QUOTE=CJJ\*] You missed the point entirely. The claim was not that Barack Obama voted “present” on a bill he felt was a back-door attempt to regulate abortion (a more pressing issue at the state level since abortion is regulated by the states), or even the simpler truth that Obama voted to support abortion rights. The exact claim was that Barack Obama voted three times to “allow doctors and patients to murder babies.” . [/QUOTE] Yes, according to what I posted, that’s exactly what he did. I don’t know about the 3 times part because I only count 2 but that is what the voting record shows. His website dances around it saying that the first version did not have the neutral clause in it (2002?). According to The Right to Life Committe links he voted to insert the language into the 2nd version and then voted it down. This was after the federal version was voted in (2003). His statement that he would have voted for the federal version had he been Senator at the time is a complete lie. And if you followed my instructions in post 18 to look at Obama’s response you will see that it has been shut down. Here is his website and if you click on “Learn” and then “know the facts” you get a blue screen with his crest on it. The entire “know the facts” section has been pulled down. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recent-shootings-in-us-with-political-motivations/460111/23 "2008-08-18T19:34:52Z")
Sorry, [here](http://www.barackobama.com/index.php) is his website. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recent-shootings-in-us-with-political-motivations/460111/24 "2008-08-18T21:11:16Z")
It’s working again, maybe it was overloaded (can you overload part of a website?). ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recent-shootings-in-us-with-political-motivations/460111/25 "2008-08-18T21:13:03Z")
[QUOTE=vetbridge] I have no problem admitting my laziness, however in this situation, it is not the primary reason for my POV. I infrequently listen to talk radio. If Rush Limbaugh is on, I sometimes agree with what he is saying for a minute or two before he looses me. If Randi Rhodes is on the air, the same exact thing happens. I listen and agree for a short time, then she looses me. [/QUOTE] You’ve already been granted Randi Rhodes, although she is not in the same league ratings-wise as Limbagh or the Fox gang. But if you’re going to maintain the Al Franken and Rachel Maddow are just as extreme and unfair-minded as Limbaugh, O’Reilly, Hannity, et. al., you’ve got an uphill case to make. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2008, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recent-shootings-in-us-with-political-motivations/460111/26 "2008-08-20T02:12:46Z")
[QUOTE=vetbridge] Well, it is difficult to ascribe motive to crazies, and I do not know if I can come up with a liberal agenda murder for every stated conservative agenda murder, but I would offer Squeeky Fromme’s attempt on Gerald Ford and Arthur Bremmer’s shooting of George Wallace as a starting point. [/QUOTE] In the '60s LW violence got more press but RW violence was actually much more prevalent. At least, that’s how [Rick Perlstein](http://www.amazon.com/Nixonland-Rise-President-Fracturing-America/dp/0743243021/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1219198185&sr=8-1) tells it, with lotsa cites. And on the left side, all that pretty much went out with the Symbionese Liberation Army. (Today, American LW “terrorists” do nothing worse than spike trees and smash windows.) Whereas on the right side . . . remember Oklahoma City? ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2008, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recent-shootings-in-us-with-political-motivations/460111/27 "2008-08-20T02:25:48Z")
There is a difference between anti-government and right-wing. Don’t lump Timothy McVeigh in with right-wing politics because he shares some of the same views. Timothy McVeigh did not commit his crimes in the name of the Republican party or any kind of right-wing movement. From Wikipedia: > [@](#): > > In interviews before his execution, documented in American Terrorist, McVeigh stated he decapitated an Iraqi soldier with cannon fire on his first day in the war and celebrated. But he said he later was shocked to be ordered to execute surrendering prisoners, and to see carnage on the road leaving Kuwait City after U.S. troops routed the Iraqi army. In interviews following the Oklahoma City bombing, McVeigh said he began harboring anti-government feelings during the Gulf War. He began harboring anti-government feelings during which war again? Who was the president during that war? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2008, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recent-shootings-in-us-with-political-motivations/460111/28 "2008-08-20T02:40:34Z")
[QUOTE=Argent Towers] There is a difference between anti-government and right-wing. Don’t lump Timothy McVeigh in with right-wing politics because he shares some of the same views. Timothy McVeigh did not commit his crimes in the name of the Republican party or any kind of right-wing movement. [/QUOTE] :dubious: He had **at least** as much to do with the American radical right as the Weathermen had to do with the New Left. Remember, there’s the whole [militia movement](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militia_movement) out there, and a bunch of white-supremacist hate groups, and while they have little to do with the Republican Party they are “right-wing” by any reasonable standard. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2008, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recent-shootings-in-us-with-political-motivations/460111/29 "2008-08-20T02:45:20Z")
[QUOTE=Argent Towers] He began harboring anti-government feelings during which war again? Who was the president during that war? [/QUOTE] The one the radical right blames for the “New World Order.” Which does not mean they are not “right,” it just means they regard Bush I (and II, I’m sure) much as the radical left in the 1960s regarded LBJ. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2008, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recent-shootings-in-us-with-political-motivations/460111/30 "2008-08-20T02:52:15Z")
[QUOTE=vetbridge] I think the media people you’ve mentioned are whackjobs. _However,_ I also think that Randi Rhodes, Al Franken, and Rachel Maddow are whackjobs. For every crazy person who kills people who have a liberal agenda there is a crazy person who kills people because they have a conservative agenda. [/QUOTE] I doubt it.Franken and Madow ct with humor not hate,. ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2008, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recent-shootings-in-us-with-political-motivations/460111/31 "2008-08-20T03:21:25Z")
[QUOTE=Weirddave] In a delicious bit of irony, it was Roseanne Barr who actually called for riots in Chicago on Air America, Rush just said he “dreamed of riots” because it would ensure that a Democrat was not elected. [/QUOTE] Roseanne Barr is a mainstream liberal pundit now? ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2008, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recent-shootings-in-us-with-political-motivations/460111/32 "2008-08-20T05:00:29Z")
[QUOTE=vetbridge] For someone like myself who does not feel comfortable with the discourse from either the right _or_ the left, yes, those who are vehement that their view is correct are extremist in their point of view. I think that it is easier to accept someone whose views are close to yours as being wise, but for someone with _my_ views, those espousing either end of the spectrum appear equally crazed. [/QUOTE] Just because someone is convinced their position is correct doesn’t make them an extremist. Expressing a strong desire for justice, equality, and simple human decency, and decrying when sexism, racism, bigotry, and outright lies are not only exhibited, but lauded, is not extremist, and is exactly what Rachel Maddow does, and that within an intellectual framework. Hannity, O’Reilly, Coulter, and Limbaugh proudly traffic in ignorance. Without it they’d have no audience, and they know it. The base of the conservative wing of the Republican party is comprised of probably the most incurious people in America, happily sucking down a pablum of talking points and other propaganda on a daily basis so they can know what inanities to regurgitate when questioned, even if they don’t truly understand them. You do have one thing right though. It is easier to accept someone whose views are similar to yours. It’s just a shame that so many Americans still accept, and are comforted by, the false notions that blacks are inferior to whites (and national legislation should be enacted to reflect it and resources made available to enforce it), that women were created to be subservient to men in all things, that a moral society will never allow Gay people within it (Sodomites should be treated and cured, and failing that killed), that if a community is comprised of brown people (e,g,: Mexicans, Native Americans, Arabs, etc…) it’s okay to take what they have and justifiable to destroy their lives if they resist, and that a secularist pursuit of knowledge makes baby Jesus cry. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2008, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recent-shootings-in-us-with-political-motivations/460111/33 "2008-08-20T05:19:14Z")
> [@](#): > > Don’t lump Timothy McVeigh in with right-wing politics because he shares some of the same views. Erm, why not? Isn’t sharing “some of the same views” precisely what makes up “right-wing politics”, or indeed any other kind? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2008, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recent-shootings-in-us-with-political-motivations/460111/34 "2008-08-20T05:57:58Z")
[QUOTE=Askance] Erm, why not? Isn’t sharing “some of the same views” precisely what makes up “right-wing politics”, or indeed any other kind? [/QUOTE] No because there are plenty of anti-governement wingnuts on the left. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2008, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recent-shootings-in-us-with-political-motivations/460111/35 "2008-08-20T14:02:30Z")
Rachel Maddow, BTW, [is getting her own show.](http://tvdecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/08/19/rachel-maddow-to-replace-dan-abrams-on-msnbc/) ---
**Author:** ![ArizonaTeach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/45deac/32.png) [@ArizonaTeach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArizonaTeach)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2008, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recent-shootings-in-us-with-political-motivations/460111/36 "2008-08-20T14:19:46Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] I doubt it.Franken and Madow ct with humor not hate,. [/QUOTE] “Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot” Yeah, that’s funny non-hate filled stuff there. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2008, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recent-shootings-in-us-with-political-motivations/460111/37 "2008-08-20T14:43:49Z")
\*And \* it’s at best a half-truth. Rush Limbaugh is only an idiot in the colloquial sense of the word. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2008, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recent-shootings-in-us-with-political-motivations/460111/38 "2008-08-20T14:56:25Z")
[QUOTE=Magiver] No because there are plenty of anti-governement wingnuts on the left. [/QUOTE] And Timothy McVeigh would have shot them on sight if he could get away with it. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2008, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recent-shootings-in-us-with-political-motivations/460111/39 "2008-08-20T15:40:09Z")
[QUOTE=ArizonaTeach] “Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot” Yeah, that’s funny non-hate filled stuff there. [/QUOTE] True . So you read it. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2008, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recent-shootings-in-us-with-political-motivations/460111/40 "2008-08-20T15:53:14Z")
[QUOTE=Onomatopoeia] Just because someone is convinced their position is correct doesn’t make them an extremist. Expressing a strong desire for justice, equality, and simple human decency, and decrying when sexism, racism, bigotry, and outright lies are not only exhibited, but lauded, is not extremist, and is exactly what Rachel Maddow does, and that within an intellectual framework. [/QUOTE] No, but assuming your side has a monopoly on a desire for justice, equality, and simple human decency does tend to make you an extremist. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recent-shootings-in-us-with-political-motivations/460111.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recent-shootings-in-us-with-political-motivations/460111.md?page=3)