Recent "stuck gas pedal" runaway car

[RaftPeople]

Rick, I’m guessing you aren’t familiar with complex software systems (I am), I read the NASA analysis, here are some things you probably aren’t aware of:

1. They primarily performed their work against a model/simulation of part of a car. (I assume I don’t need to explain why this limits the effectiveness of their analysis) and used that to determine which things they should test on a real vehicle.

2. They relied on Toyota specialists to guide them as to what input values coming into the software were reasonable and tested within those parameters (how do they know that unreasonable values aren’t exactly the problem?)

3. There were unable to even perform what they call “verification” of 3 modules of the software due to complexity:
   “The learning algorithms represented by these three modules are incredibly complex, requiring many inputs from inside and outside the ISC being utilized by multiple, interconnected calculations.”

Three very complex portions of code and they did not even account for them in their modeling/testing.

4. NASA didn’t say there are no problems…they mentioned the limits of their testing methods throughout the report .

If you don’t trust me, ask any of the other technical people on the board, (e.g.Francis Vaughn, Voyager, etc.) they will say the same thing…the analysis was limited by what they had available to them, it was not comprehensive.

NASA Analysis of Toyota Software

[Dog80]

@Rick

The KIA does not disallow you to shift into neutral at any speed, it has a button that has to be depressed to move the shifter from D to N. Every auto trans I have every been around (again with one exception) has something to prevent you from either knocking the shifter into N or R while driving. It might be a button, or a gate where you have to move the shifter to one side or another, but I guarantee you there is something that prevents the lever from moving directly from D to either N or R. If you drive an automatic, you probably are so used to dealing with this button or gate, you give it no thought whatsoever.

BTW the one exception I mentioned above is the push button transmissions on late 1950s and early 1960s Chrysler and Edsels.

Are you sure about that? I do not know about the latest model Kia Sorento, but in an older model I am familiar with, you could move the shifter from D to N without pressing the button. In fact, once I did bump it accidentally to N while reaching for my coffee.

Also those drivers in the Audi 5000 case should have their driving license re-evaluated. How is it possible to mistake the gas pedal for the brake pedal? The brake pedal has a lot less travel and is much stiffer

[rogerbox]

@TriPolar

There are many false reports of stuck accelerators. It’s often an excuse for collisions to due to inattention, happens with remarkable frequency when someone starts out in reverse instead of forward. One documented case had the same woman claiming stuck accelerators in at least two different cars, and in each case the brakes, ignition key, and shift lever all failed simultaneously with the accelerator sticking, yet there were no signs of mechanical failure afterwards. Also, following highly publicized cases of a stuck accelerators, many people suddenly remember that it happened to them in the same type of car, yet they never bothered to report it to anyone or have the car looked at by a mechanic. Also remarkable, the same type of car doesn’t have to be the same model, just the same manufacturer, or something altogether different but similar looking. Those stuck accelerators are devious little buggers.

Also when they graphed the people who were claiming to have stuck accelerators in the Prius’ a few years ago, a statistically unlikely large portion of them were elderly.

Stuck accelerator= too old to drive, thought the gas pedal was the brake pedal, not paying attention…a small fraction of claimed stuck accelerators actually are.

Anyway good thing I only drive manual cars and never have to worry about this. Every dang automatic car is different, it’s unsafe IMO how complex the shifters are when you’re not used to the car.