# Recognizing Jerusalem as Israel's Capital; a Proud Moment **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 8, 2017, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854 "2017-12-08T00:17:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/181 "2017-12-18T18:04:01Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Believe me, sitting ducks is exactly the right term for these small isolated settlements. Do you know how much money and manpower Israel spends on protecting them? I’ve protected them myself, and seen exactly where all my tax shekels are going. Why do you think I want us out of there? IIRC, in the late 80s or early 90s, Shamir claimed if he’d had his way “there’d be a million Jews in Judea and Samaria and there’d be no more talk of a Palestinian state.” ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/182 "2017-12-18T18:14:03Z")
The link states a premise that can be debated, but the premise speaks for itself. I agree with it. If you disagree, you can debate it if you wish. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/183 "2017-12-18T18:24:55Z")
You asserted it as fact. It doesn’t work that way. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/184 "2017-12-18T18:59:01Z")
> [@barbitu8](#): > > Did you read my previous post? Trump cannot recognize Palestine’s independence with the capital in Jerusalem. That must be worked out between the parties involved. Your first link says it all: The Palestinians view the east as the capital of their future state, according to the 1993 Oslo Accords, but Trump’s move puts this hope in serious jeopardy. If it’s to be worked out between the parties involved, then other states shouldn’t be putting their thumbs on the scale. Which is why the rest of the world refrained from doing what Trump just did. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/185 "2017-12-18T19:20:19Z")
Yes, and what Trump just did reflects the Likudist view that there _aren’t_ really two parties with rights involved. Which is \*also \*something the rest of the world has long known better than to adopt. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/186 "2017-12-18T19:38:54Z")
Well, it’s been a few weeks. I assume everything is solved? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/187 "2017-12-18T20:26:12Z")
[Only a few more dead Palestinians](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-42371503), nothing to worry about, move along now. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/188 "2017-12-18T20:43:30Z")
US vetoes otherwise unanimous Security Council vote (including France and the UK) declaring the recognition of Jerusalem as the capital illegal. > **[U.S. Vetoes U.N. Security Council Resolution Voiding Trump's Jerusalem Move](https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/12/18/571653304/u-s-vetoes-u-n-security-council-resolution-voiding-trumps-jerusalem-move)** > > The Council's other 14 members approved the resolution, which didn't mention the U.S. by name. U.S. Delegate Nikki Haley called it "an insult" that "won't be forgotten." ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/189 "2017-12-18T21:22:02Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > US vetoes otherwise unanimous Security Council vote (including France and the UK) declaring the recognition of Jerusalem as the capital illegal. > [U.S. Vetoes U.N. Security Council Resolution Voiding Trump's Jerusalem Move : The Two-Way : NPR](https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/12/18/571653304/u-s-vetoes-u-n-security-council-resolution-voiding-trumps-jerusalem-move) Where does it say “illegal”? It’s just another resolution. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/190 "2017-12-18T21:37:57Z")
It’s the **UN** , dammit. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/WMuS2ClXAX0/hqdefault.jpg "1776 Piddle, Twiddle and Resolve") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMuS2ClXAX0) ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/191 "2017-12-18T21:39:14Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > US vetoes otherwise unanimous Security Council vote (including France and the UK) declaring the recognition of Jerusalem as the capital illegal. > [U.S. Vetoes U.N. Security Council Resolution Voiding Trump's Jerusalem Move : The Two-Way : NPR](https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/12/18/571653304/u-s-vetoes-u-n-security-council-resolution-voiding-trumps-jerusalem-move) That’s not exactly what the resolution says. > [@](#): > > The U.S. blocked a United Nations Security Council vote Monday on a resolution that\*\* called on all states to refrain from building diplomatic missions in Jerusalem\*\*. (bolding mine) Calling on states to refrain from building diplomatic missions in Jerusalem is not the as claiming what the US did was illegal. Jaw-droppingly stupid and dangerous, yes. But stupid, no. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/192 "2017-12-18T21:46:35Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > That’s not exactly what the resolution says. > > (bolding mine) > > Calling on states to refrain from building diplomatic missions in Jerusalem is not the as claiming what the US did was illegal. > > Jaw-droppingly stupid and dangerous, yes. But stupid, no. I think you mean “Jaw-droppingly stupid and dangerous, yes. But\* illegal,\* no.” I’ll go along with “stupid” if not quite _"Jaw-droppingly_ stupid " and add "political grandstaning to get our minds of bigger issues. " ---
**Author:** ![JBGUSA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/258eb7/32.png) [@JBGUSA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JBGUSA)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/193 "2017-12-19T00:29:48Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > That’s the way I feel we need to treat the Middle East. Just try to keep the Israelis and the Palestinians from actively killing each other and wait until the circumstances for creating a real peace appear. > > And how do we do that? Well, we avoid doing stupid shit like recognizing Jerusalem as the capital. By recobnizing Jerusalem as the capital we are saying what is, and is not, up for grabs. Syria was very upset in 1964 when the U.S. started funding an Israeli water project. Someone in the government said “in 1948 they guaranteed Israel’s past, and now they’re guaranteeing their future.” The Arabs have to know there’s no reward for intransigence. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/194 "2017-12-19T02:55:24Z")
> [@JBGUSA](#): > > By recobnizing Jerusalem as the capital we are saying what is, and is not, up for grabs. Syria was very upset in 1964 when the U.S. started funding an Israeli water project. Someone in the government said “in 1948 they guaranteed Israel’s past, and now they’re guaranteeing their future.” The Arabs have to know there’s no reward for intransigence. I’m curious: In your view, in an ideal world, what happens next? What do the Palestinians do and what’s the end state? Do you want them to come to the bargaining table, and what’s negotiable? (Let’s assume, for argument’s sake, it’s possible to stop all terrorism) ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/195 "2017-12-19T05:08:59Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I think you mean “Jaw-droppingly stupid and dangerous, yes. But\* illegal,\* no.” > > I’ll go along with “stupid” if not quite _"Jaw-droppingly_ stupid " and add "political grandstaning to get our minds of bigger issues. " D’oh! Yup, my bad! ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/196 "2017-12-19T06:25:36Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > IIRC, in the late 80s or early 90s, Shamir claimed if he’d had his way “there’d be a million Jews in Judea and Samaria and there’d be no more talk of a Palestinian state.” Which just shows how far the Likud has moved to the left since then. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/197 "2017-12-19T07:06:41Z")
It just shows one person’s opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/198 "2017-12-19T13:43:27Z")
> [@JBGUSA](#): > > By recobnizing Jerusalem as the capital we are saying what is, and is not, up for grabs. Meaning that East Jerusalem isn’t “up for grabs” as the capital of a Palestinian state? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/199 "2017-12-19T15:00:30Z")
Unilaterally declaring things to be non-negotiable is not a good-faith, trust-building way to enter a negotiation. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/200 "2017-12-19T15:09:16Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Unilaterally declaring things to be non-negotiable is not a good-faith, trust-building way to enter a negotiation. It is, however, par for the course in Middle-Eastern haggling. Lots of things are never subject to negotiation, until they are. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854.md?page=11)