# Recognizing Jerusalem as Israel's Capital; a Proud Moment **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 8, 2017, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854 "2017-12-08T00:17:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Silver\_lining](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Silver\_lining](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_lining)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2017, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/241 "2017-12-22T02:07:16Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > OK, the Palestinians are fellow humans. Now can they stop firing rockets and negotiate in good faith? > > Regards, > Shodan Exactly. Start respecting human life and funding and participating in terrorism. Stop teaching hate at an early age. Then maybe they could negotiate something. Maybe a deal can be made where they get a piece of the Sanni Peninsula? Of course hate is their goal, not peace. This group badly needs is own Martin Luther King Jr, but the culture they have created and voted for ( HAMAS ) would stoned him once he gained traction as a speaker. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2017, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/242 "2017-12-22T06:41:04Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Exactly. Start respecting human life and funding and participating in terrorism. Stop teaching hate at an early age. Then maybe they could negotiate something. > > Maybe a deal can be made where they get a piece of the Sanni Peninsula? Of course hate is their goal, not peace. This group badly needs is own Martin Luther King Jr, but the culture they have created and voted for ( HAMAS ) would stoned him once he gained traction as a speaker. The Sinai Peninsula belongs to Egypt not Israel but even if it did, why would the Palestinians possibly want it? ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2017, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/243 "2017-12-22T07:05:24Z")
> [@](#): > > “The Day of Judgment will not come until Muslims fight the Jews, when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say, ‘O Muslim, O servant of God, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.’ Only the Gharkad tree would not do that, because it is one of the trees of the Jews.” It’s just like Spanish with its Os and As, only here it is Muslim and Jew, and the stones and trees say one has to die. Peace will require changing these linguistic habits. Good luck. Any suggestions on how to accomplish that? ---
**Author:** ![gatorslap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gatorslap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gatorslap)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2017, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/244 "2017-12-22T10:04:37Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Exactly. Start respecting human life and funding and participating in terrorism. Stop teaching hate at an early age. Then maybe they could negotiate something. “Maybe”. What reason do the Palestinians have to believe that Israel would treat them any differently? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2017, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/245 "2017-12-22T16:38:47Z")
Just “they”? That isn’t quite how it works. ---
**Author:** ![HelenGawn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@HelenGawn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HelenGawn)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2017, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/246 "2017-12-22T17:10:26Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Now, do I think it’s bit silly to talk to Fatah but not Hamas… Beyond that the Israelis refused because Hamas has repeatedly made it clear they would never agree to any settlement that allowed for the continued existence of Israel, that the most they would ever concede was a temporary ceasefire or “hudna”. Why? Seriously, why should one country - or territory, if you prefer - be separated by a hostile nation? That didn’t work with Pakistan, which once included what is now Bangladesh, all the way across their mutual enemy, India. I’m speaking of the Israeli side here. They should negotiate a peace that makes the settlements part of Palestine, where they can hope to be treated better than Arabs in Israel. Whether Fatah could do so without risking the wrath of Gaza and the Arab world is another question, but the backing of the US and a capitulation on East Jerusalem would help. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2017, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/247 "2017-12-22T17:24:15Z")
Some news: > **[Jerusalem: Palestinian leader Abbas spurns US peace plan](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-42453530)** > > A US initiative is put in doubt, as Palestinians die amid ongoing fallout over Jerusalem's status. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2017, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/248 "2017-12-22T18:04:45Z")
> [@HelenGawn](#): > > Why? Seriously, why should one country - or territory, if you prefer - be separated by a hostile nation? That didn’t work with Pakistan, which once included what is now Bangladesh, all the way across their mutual enemy, India. I’m not sure what lesson you are trying to draw from this, and how it relates to the Israeli-Palestinian situation, but your understanding of India, Pakistan and Bangladesh is entirely wrong. India is and was not the mutual enemy of Pakistan and Bangladesh; Pakistan was the mutual enemy of India and Bangladesh. Bangladesh gained its independence from Pakistan in 1971 in the [Bangladesh Liberation War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladesh_Liberation_War) which arose out of [Operation Searchlight](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971_Bangladesh_genocide), a Pakistani crackdown on Bengali nationalism in what was then East Pakistan, leading to what has been called the 1971 Bangladesh Genocide. 10 million Bengalis fled to India and between 300,000 and 3 million were killed. Unless you feel the West Bank is politically oppressed by the Gaza Strip and fear that the Gaza Strip will launch such a brutal, murderous crackdown on West Bank nationalism that hundreds of thousands of West Bank-ians will flee to Israel leading Israel to be drawn into the West Bank War of Independence freeing the West Bank from the oppressive tyranny of the Gaza Strip I can’t see how the situation is remotely related. ---
**Author:** ![JBGUSA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/258eb7/32.png) [@JBGUSA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JBGUSA)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/249 "2017-12-23T03:30:39Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Unilaterally declaring things to be non-negotiable is not a good-faith, trust-building way to enter a negotiation. What about the Arab position: 1) No recognition; 2) No peace; and 3) No negotiations? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/250 "2017-12-23T13:40:44Z")
Whataboutism has been heavily discussed in this forum, and you can explore the subject for yourself if truly so inclined. ---
**Author:** ![JBGUSA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/258eb7/32.png) [@JBGUSA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JBGUSA)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/251 "2017-12-23T23:50:40Z")
U.S. move of U.S. Embassy from Bonn to Berlin. How did we benefit? [(link)](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=20682997&posted=1#post20682997). ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2017, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/252 "2017-12-24T00:23:32Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Whataboutism has been heavily discussed in this forum, and you can explore the subject for yourself if truly so inclined. It’s not so much “whataboutism” as you can’t negotiate with people who don’t want to negotiate with you. ---
**Author:** ![JBGUSA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/258eb7/32.png) [@JBGUSA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JBGUSA)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2017, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/253 "2017-12-24T02:36:49Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > It’s not so much “whataboutism” as you can’t negotiate with people who don’t want to negotiate with you. Exactly. The issue is Israel’s existence as a Jewish state, not borders. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2017, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/254 "2017-12-24T16:46:36Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > It’s not so much “whataboutism” as you can’t negotiate with people who don’t want to negotiate with you. And the Palestinians have every reason to think that, don’t they? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2017, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/255 "2017-12-24T23:33:47Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Whataboutism has been heavily discussed in this forum, and you can explore the subject for yourself if truly so inclined. I think you may have missed his point. He was referring to how at the end of the Six Day War, when the Israelis took the West Bank from Jordan after Jordan foolishly attacked Israel rather than staying out of the war, Israel offered to negotiate a return but the various Arab countries offered their three famous nos. No negotiation, no recognition, and no peace. His point was the Israelis offered to negotiate and the Arab groups refused. It’s not a case of whataboutism. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2017, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/256 "2017-12-24T23:36:50Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > And the Palestinians have every reason to think that, don’t they? Only if they’re grossly ignorant of the history of the reason. Few of either the Palestinians or the Israelis are, though the same can’t be said for their foreign champions, few of whom could pass a high school history test on the region. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2017, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/257 "2017-12-25T00:01:43Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Only if they’re grossly ignorant of the history of the reason. > > Few of either the Palestinians or the Israelis are, though the same can’t be said for their foreign champions, few of whom could pass a high school history test on the region. D’oh! “region” not “reason.” ---
**Author:** ![Rutherford\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71e660/32.png) [@Rutherford\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rutherford_B)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2017, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/258 "2017-12-25T23:36:56Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > If this is one of America’s finest hours, the U.S. must have done awfully few fine acts in its existence. It’s a symbolic act and simply means that the Trump administration has no interest in developing an Israeli-Palestinian peace agreement (as everyone knows the Palestinians strongly desire East Jerusalem to be capital of Palestine). using “Israel-Palestinian peace” in a sentence creates an oxymoron. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2017, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/259 "2017-12-26T19:47:46Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I think you may have missed his point. > > He was referring to how at the end of the Six Day War, when the Israelis took the West Bank from Jordan after Jordan foolishly attacked Israel rather than staying out of the war, Israel offered to negotiate a return but the various Arab countries offered their three famous nos. No negotiation, no recognition, and no peace. > > His point was the Israelis offered to negotiate and the Arab groups refused. It’s not a case of whataboutism. Has the Arab position moderated since 1967? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2017, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/260 "2017-12-26T20:45:52Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Only if they’re grossly ignorant of the history of the reason. Or if they recognize history as a trap, something to be hurled against the walls and used as a rationalization, rather than something to be recognized and mutually appreciated, then set aside in the cause of creating a peaceful future. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854.md?page=14)