# Recognizing Jerusalem as Israel's Capital; a Proud Moment **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 8, 2017, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854 "2017-12-08T00:17:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/41 "2017-12-08T15:12:20Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Anything that’s good for Israel is in America’s best interests. I’m agreeing with [Andrew Sullivan](http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/12/andrew-sullivan-let-him-have-his-cake.html) on this one (as I often do) > [@](#): > > The reason for this move is self-evident. The Trump administration believes in the project of Greater Israel, and the right of just one people to control all the territory from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean. They believe this as a theological and moral imperative, and all other diplomatic considerations take second place. Who are the key figures who hold this belief? Jared Kushner, the dauphin who has dedicated his short adult life to obliterating any concept of a Palestinian state; the U.S. ambassador David Friedman, whose commitment to Jewish supremacy in Greater Israel has always been total; and Mike Pence, whose theological conviction is that Israel must be made whole and eternal (and the Palestinians wished away) if the Second Coming is to arrive. Sometimes, Occam’s razor really helps. There is no need to wonder why this has happened. It has happened because this is now U.S. policy: the extirpation of the Palestinian cause and the complete conflation of America’s national interest with Greater Israel’s in the region. This is what Sheldon Adelson paid for and what Ralph Reed demands. And this is what they will get. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/42 "2017-12-08T15:37:39Z")
I hate it when the President follows the law. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/43 "2017-12-08T15:44:15Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > I hate it when the President follows the law. :mad: Yes, that would be the simplest interpretation of it. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/44 "2017-12-08T16:13:21Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > I hate it when the President follows the law. :mad: Yes, because if there’s one thing the Trump administration has been noted for, it’s their devotion to obeying all laws. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/45 "2017-12-08T16:37:56Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Anything that’s good for Israel is in America’s best interests. What a crock. If it were true, you could actually explain how this is in America’s interest. The reason Trump did this is quite straightforward; **he’s a big sucker.** Trump thinks of his primary professional skill as being Mister Deal. He makes great deals, the best, you see. He absolutely was NOT lying when he claimed he’d make great deals. He honestly believed that, and the truth is he has been making deals all his life and he’s gotten rich on them. Trump is very narrowminded and he sees the world as being a succession of deals, where you make one and either make money or you don’t and move onto the next one, and as long as you keep accumulating money and notoriety in the long run you’re doing very well. Many people have been hurt in his wake, but he’s got the gold and the money and the fame and Trophy Wife #2, so he’s done great. The problem is that being the seventh-biggest real estate developer in New York (if that) is one thing. Being President is not a promotion from that; it’s a promotion from a promotion from a promotion from a promotion from a promotion. Trump is now officially out of his league. He is the equivalent of a very good high school quarterback who has been plucked from his regional championship and is being asked to start Monday Night Football against the Broncos, the different being that most high school QBs would know they’re going to get killed. Trump has no idea. Trump is easily manipulated by people who know how to play him, and make no mistake, Benjamin Netanyahu knows a rube when he sees one. He’s a TERRIFIC politician, one of the very best, and so he has doubtless worked this chump by making any number of promises that are deliberately vague, conveniently not written down, or both, none of which he’ll ever deliver on. Of course, it’s not just him but any number of people who wanted this to happen, like Steve Bannon or a variety of religious extremists. It’s certainly in THEIR interest that Trump make his mush-mouthed announcement, but no one can explain how it’s in the interests of the United States of America, because Trump has nothing to show for it. No concessions, no promises, nothing. Somewhere there is something Trump thinks he got out of this (it doesn’t have to be anything to the benefit of the USA) because if there wasn’t he would not have done it; everything Trump does is in the interest of Trump. Sadly, he got played big time. He’s a sucker. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/46 "2017-12-08T16:57:59Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > I hate it when the President follows the law. :mad: Everyone was asking him to follow ethics laws, but those cries fell on deaf ears. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/47 "2017-12-08T17:20:51Z")
Excellent points by Andrew Sullivan as quoted by **Procrustus** in #41, and then those made by **RickJay** in #45. Slightly different takes but being a bully and being a rube are not inconsistent, and indeed frequently go hand in hand. What they have in common is shallow, counterproductive, self-serving thinking that does no one any good. The only good news I can think of is that Trump is already so despised in the Arab and Muslim worlds that in the short term acting like a total jerk just proves what they already know and hardly makes any difference. In the longer term, the mess that future presidents are going to have to clean up is growing almost unmanageable. The world is becoming a raucous and dangerous place edging ever closer to war on several different fronts. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/48 "2017-12-08T17:29:35Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > I hate it when the President follows the law. :mad: Then you must be fucking ecstatic right now. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/49 "2017-12-08T17:59:51Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > I hate it when the President follows the law. :mad: The way I see it, the law is following him. And getting closer by the day. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/50 "2017-12-08T18:26:16Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > What a crock. If it were true, you could actually explain how this is in America’s interest. > > The reason Trump did this is quite straightforward; **he’s a big sucker.** > . I disagree. It was very clever. It got the Press and the worlds atention off the Russian thing and the Alabama elections, helping that Pedophile get into the Senate. why do you think it was timed as it was? Fucking brilliant, I say. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/51 "2017-12-08T18:31:15Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I disagree. It was very clever. It got the Press and the worlds atention off the Russian thing and the Alabama elections, helping that Pedophile get into the Senate. > > why do you think it was timed as it was? > > Fucking brilliant, I say. When you do something stupid, you don’t cover it up by doing something even stupider. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/52 "2017-12-08T18:37:02Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I disagree. It was very clever. It got the Press and the worlds atention off the Russian thing and the Alabama elections, helping that Pedophile get into the Senate. > > why do you think it was timed as it was? Ah yes, the old “Trump’s stupidity is a clever move designed to distract us from this other stupidity.” There are several really, really huge holes in this argument. 1. There is no time Trump could not do something like this that would not have appeared to be meant to distract from something else. There has been no period of time longer than four or five days since January 20 when Trump or the GOP hasn’t been publicly castigated for doing something malicious, stupid, or both. You cannot explain every stupid thing he does by saying it’s a clever distraction from some other stupid thing. A simpler, non-circular, and more logical explanation is that he does many stupid things. 2. There is no reason to believe this is distracting anyone from Russia or Roy Moore. The Russia investigation will continue irrespective of this, and will explode into the news is any more developments pop up. The Alabama election will in no measurable way be affected by this because why would it? Either Trump is clever, in which case he would know such a tactic would not work, or he’s not, in which case why think it was a clever move? 3. This wasn’t the usual Trumpist off the cuff bullshit. It was a carefully planned statement. Such a thing was planned quite far in advance, before the full recent developments, and their timing, of either the Russia or Roy Moore story were known. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/53 "2017-12-08T18:49:15Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Anything that’s good for Israel is in America’s best interests. ”What’s good for M&M Enterprises is good for the country.” — Milo Minderbinder, _Catch-22_ Next up, Betsy DeVos declares that school lunches will forthwith consist of chocolate-covered cotton bolls and Jim Mattis has the USN Third Fleet accept contracts to attack the Seventh Fleet. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/54 "2017-12-08T18:52:43Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Everyone was asking him to follow ethics laws, but those cries fell on deaf ears. Which laws has the President broken? Note: I’m not asking for your opinion. Rather, which court of competent jurisdiction has found him in violation of said laws? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/55 "2017-12-08T18:53:02Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > When you do something stupid, you don’t cover it up by doing something even stupider. Unless you’re an incompetent orange buffoon. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/56 "2017-12-08T18:58:17Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > When you do something stupid, you don’t cover it up by doing something even stupider. You do if you’re afflicted with Dunning-Kruger. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/57 "2017-12-08T18:59:47Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Which laws has the President broken? > > Note: I’m not asking for your opinion. Rather, which court of competent jurisdiction has found him in violation of said laws? So 9th Circuit Court is no longer considered a “competent jurisdiction”? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/58 "2017-12-08T19:42:19Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > So you’d agree that riots are bad for Israel and do not serve American interests? > [@Procrustus](#): > > I’m agreeing with [Andrew Sullivan](http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/12/andrew-sullivan-let-him-have-his-cake.html) on this one (as I often do) > [@RickJay](#): > > What a crock. If it were true, you could actually explain how this is in America’s interest. > > The reason Trump did this is quite straightforward; **he’s a big sucker.** > > Trump thinks of his primary professional skill as being Mister Deal. He makes great deals, the best, you see. He absolutely was NOT lying when he claimed he’d make great deals. He honestly believed that, and the truth is he has been making deals all his life and he’s gotten rich on them. Trump is very narrowminded and he sees the world as being a succession of deals, where you make one and either make money or you don’t and move onto the next one, and as long as you keep accumulating money and notoriety in the long run you’re doing very well. Many people have been hurt in his wake, but he’s got the gold and the money and the fame and Trophy Wife #2, so he’s done great. > > The problem is that being the seventh-biggest real estate developer in New York (if that) is one thing. Being President is not a promotion from that; it’s a promotion from a promotion from a promotion from a promotion from a promotion. Trump is now officially out of his league. He is the equivalent of a very good high school quarterback who has been plucked from his regional championship and is being asked to start Monday Night Football against the Broncos, the different being that most high school QBs would know they’re going to get killed. Trump has no idea. > > Trump is easily manipulated by people who know how to play him, and make no mistake, Benjamin Netanyahu knows a rube when he sees one. He’s a TERRIFIC politician, one of the very best, and so he has doubtless worked this chump by making any number of promises that are deliberately vague, conveniently not written down, or both, none of which he’ll ever deliver on. Of course, it’s not just him but any number of people who wanted this to happen, like Steve Bannon or a variety of religious extremists. It’s certainly in THEIR interest that Trump make his mush-mouthed announcement, but no one can explain how it’s in the interests of the United States of America, because Trump has nothing to show for it. No concessions, no promises, nothing. > > Somewhere there is something Trump thinks he got out of this (it doesn’t have to be anything to the benefit of the USA) because if there wasn’t he would not have done it; everything Trump does is in the interest of Trump. Sadly, he got played big time. He’s a sucker. I was being facetious. You can ask any of the Israel apologist where I stand on Israel and the peace process. I don’t think that Israel has negotiated in good faith since they had peace with Egypt and even less so since they made peace with Jordan. I think most of the rest of the world correctly believes that the two state solution must start with 1967 borders with any changes from those borders to be mutually agreed. Israel hates this idea because they have been engaging in building settlements on the other side of that border for decades with the notion that they would be able to scoop up that land in any eventual deal they may reach with he Palestinians. If we ever move our embassy to Jerusalem we ought to build it out of blast proof asbestos. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/59 "2017-12-08T19:46:16Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > ”What’s good for M&M Enterprises is good for the country.” — Milo Minderbinder, _Catch-22_ > > Next up, Betsy DeVos declares that school lunches will forthwith consist of chocolate-covered cotton bolls and Jim Mattis has the USN Third Fleet accept contracts to attack the Seventh Fleet. > > Stranger I guess Poe’s law really kicked in. I don’t think there is some Deep State Jewish Cabal that is secretly calling the shots but I think the Israeli lobby punches way above its weight and we put consideration of Israeli interest way higher than they ought to be. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/60 "2017-12-08T21:21:31Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I don’t think there is some Deep State Jewish Cabal that is secretly calling the shots but I think the Israeli lobby punches way above its weight and we put consideration of Israeli interest way higher than they ought to be. Presumably the Israeli lobby have been trying to get the United States to do this for decades but every past President has refused. Why did Trump succumb? Should we see this as a sign that he is an unusually weak President who is unable to stand up to the pressures that past Presidents stood up to? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854.md?page=4)