# Recognizing Jerusalem as Israel's Capital; a Proud Moment **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 8, 2017, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854 "2017-12-08T00:17:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/61 "2017-12-08T21:26:29Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > So 9th Circuit Court is no longer considered a “competent jurisdiction”? I’m gonna guess that he doesn’t know what you’re talking about. My best evidence for that is that I don’t either. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/62 "2017-12-08T21:27:08Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Presumably the Israeli lobby have been trying to get the United States to do this for decades but every past President has refused. Why did Trump succumb? Should we see this as a sign that he is an unusually weak President who is unable to stand up to the pressures that past Presidents stood up to? Or that he is a strong President, not bowing to the demands of terrorists? ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/63 "2017-12-08T22:00:26Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Less opportunity for future gaffs from American politicians because someone forgot to maintain the charade for a moment? > > Less walking distance from the Embassy to go see the Israeli politicians? > > These are important factors, man! What? What kind of crazy is that? 😕😕😕 ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/64 "2017-12-08T22:06:54Z")
My question is, I wonder how this will play with the alt-right? A huge part of their ideology is the idea that Israel manipulates America and that Zionism is a major force of evil in the world. How exactly can they square that with what seems like a blatantly pro-Zionist move by Trump? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Crap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.crap/32/3131_2.png) [@Dr.Crap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Crap)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/65 "2017-12-08T22:48:58Z")
The [alt-right](http://www.unz.com) still sees Jews as a kind of self-aware disease so no thought revolution there, Jacque. Notably, Alex Jones defended this move on the grounds that Muslims should be offended and suffer losses to their identity in the same way that Americans and Europeans have to theirs due to immigration. A political give and take as he described it. The vast majority of his commentors were opposed to, if not distraught by, the decision. He spent 20 minutes of his ~3 hour show defending his defense and insisting he is not a Zionist agent. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/66 "2017-12-08T23:15:35Z")
> [@Jacquernagy](#): > > My question is, I wonder how this will play with the alt-right? A huge part of their ideology is the idea that Israel manipulates America and that Zionism is a major force of evil in the world. How exactly can they square that with what seems like a blatantly pro-Zionist move by Trump? It’s all about the hate. In this case, alt-right hates, as they generalize: “Arabs” more. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/67 "2017-12-08T23:26:46Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > ”What’s good for M&M Enterprises is good for the country.” — Milo Minderbinder, _Catch-22_ > > Next up, Betsy DeVos declares that school lunches will forthwith consist of chocolate-covered cotton bolls and Jim Mattis has the USN Third Fleet accept contracts to attack the Seventh Fleet. > > Stranger _It was miraculous. It was almost no trick at all, he saw, to turn vice into virtue and slander into truth, impotence into abstinence, arrogance into humility, plunder into philanthropy, thievery into honor, blasphemy into wisdom, brutality into patriotism, and sadism into justice. Anybody could do it; it required no brains at all. It merely required no character._ Argh. Please tell me we are not on our way to Heller in a handbasket. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2017, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/68 "2017-12-09T00:21:51Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > What? > What kind of crazy is that? 😕😕😕 I was being facetious. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2017, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/69 "2017-12-09T01:54:52Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I was being facetious. Oh, thank OG! I thought one, or both, of us had lost our mind(s). ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2017, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/70 "2017-12-09T02:03:37Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Presumably the Israeli lobby have been trying to get the United States to do this for decades but every past President has refused. Why did Trump succumb? Should we see this as a sign that he is an unusually weak President who is unable to stand up to the pressures that past Presidents stood up to? > [@DrDeth](#): > > Or that he is a strong President, not bowing to the demands of terrorists? We could argue all day about whether Trump’s a weak President or a strong President. Let’s just agree that he’s a dumb President. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2017, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/71 "2017-12-09T03:05:40Z")
> [@Jacquernagy](#): > > My question is, I wonder how this will play with the alt-right? A huge part of their ideology is the idea that Israel manipulates America and that Zionism is a major force of evil in the world. How exactly can they square that with what seems like a blatantly pro-Zionist move by Trump? I’m no expert on the alt-right, but Steven Bannon sure seems to like talking about the “Judeo-Christian” West vs. the rest of the world. There’s a segment of right-wingers who seem to see Jews as basically “Christian-lite”, the token other religion they can point to so as to say “See, we aren’t bigoted against _all_ religious minorities!” I imagine this doesn’t play so well with the literal Nazis and KKKers, but I think they’re still a minority next to the folks who are still pretending they aren’t embracing Nazi ideology. And then there are the evangelicals who are actually far bigger Israel-hawks than most American Jews. Something about how Jesus will only come back when the Jews control the Holy Land. Trump is stupid in many ways (so many), but one thing he’s genuinely skilled at is throwing red meat to his base. Like, he says some crazy thing about building a giant wall, and they cheer, so he starts saying it at every rally. I see this action kind of in that light. It will please a sizeable chunk of the evangelicals, and it will please some of the alt-right types, and it’ll go over well with the anti-Muslim bigots, and the Trump loyalists will like it because it’s Trump doing something, or because it reverses a policy of his predecessors… add that up, and maybe this makes a majority of his supporters happy. And who cares if it’s a good idea, if his supporters cheer! ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2017, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/72 "2017-12-09T03:16:53Z")
> [@JBGUSA](#): > > The Israelis have, for the almost 70 years of the existence of the Jewish state been open to negotiations. With the notable exceptions of the leaders of Egypt and Jordan there has been no reciprocal move. In fact, quite the contrary. Hamas digs “terror tunnels” under Israel’s border. The West Bankers have initiated, along with Gaza, their share of knifings, car rammings and suicide bombings. It is clear that only a capitulation by Israel, i.e. the evacuation of all Jewish citizens to other countries will satisfy them. Every time I open a GD thread about Israel, I think “Maybe this time someone will make a genuine argument for why X isn’t bad news for any hope of peace between Israelis and Palestinians.” (Usually X is something like Israeli settlements in the West Bank, whereas here it’s American recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital – but the hope is the same.) I would be genuinely interested to hear that argument. But instead, what we get is always some variation of “The Palestinians will never make peace with us anyway, so we might as well…” No doubt there are some Palestinians saying “The Israelis won’t ever make peace with us anyway, look how they claim Jerusalem as theirs alone, and they keep claiming land in the West Bank, etc…” ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2017, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/73 "2017-12-09T04:35:36Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > So 9th Circuit Court is no longer considered a “competent jurisdiction”? Where is the ruling that the President broke the law? Cite, please. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2017, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/74 "2017-12-09T04:49:05Z")
If the idea is to abolish the 1967 borders because, Right of Conquest, well then remember than Rome conquered the area in the 1st century BCE, voiding Biblical titles to the land. In this scenario, justice does demand a one state solution- it’s all Palestine. Going back to the 1967 borders does force the settlement issue of course. A POTUS like Trump taking such sudden and extreme steps justifies the next administration adopting the same tactic, for opposite ends. [This video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A58rYo_36JA) I believe to be making an incorrect claim, but it does a great job of defining the capabilities of a laser weapon. Like with the California wildfires, evacuate the area in advance. Leave no choice- if some devout residents would rather facebook live themselves into martyrdom, send in the police to evict them. All of them. When that job is thoroughly and completely accomplished, activate the laser weapons and obliterate the settlements. Fence off the Palestinian side from the Israeli side, and allow the Palestinians to reclaim their territory. Peace at last. Or else. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Crap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.crap/32/3131_2.png) [@Dr.Crap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Crap)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2017, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/75 "2017-12-09T05:33:57Z")
What a creepy revenge fantasy you have. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2017, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/76 "2017-12-09T05:42:15Z")
Naw, it is just history + youtube. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2017, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/77 "2017-12-09T05:47:35Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > … My take is that Trump knows jack shit about why or why not this was a good idea, that he understands that it is likely to result in bloodshed, and he’s hoping for the resulting bloodshed to take attention away from the shitshow that he has brought to Washington. > [@Trinopus](#): > > Are there no limits to the man’s depravity? > > I’m very much pro-Israel, and yet I think this was a stupid, ham-handed, brain-dead blunder of the worst kind. It destroys America’s ability to serve as a mediator in the region. I have to hope Europe can step into the new diplomatic vacuum…before China does. I am also strongly pro-Israel, but agree with these comments. BTW, the Trumpist meme is that the embassy move was voted by Congress. Is this just the 1995 law they refer to, the one giving Potus specific authority to postpone the move indefinitely? It’s no secret that Congress often passes laws on foreign issues that the better-informed and less-political President should ignore. And in fact, Bill Clinton _didn’t even sign_ that 1995 law (though it became law anyway since he didn’t explicitly veto it). ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2017, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/78 "2017-12-09T12:51:54Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Well spoken? He sounded like he was gargling slippery rocks. It’s “hard to gargle zwadelneus with all these marbles in my mouth…” ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2017, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/79 "2017-12-09T13:03:38Z")
He’s trying to stir up as much shit as he can, create as many conflicts as possible, fan ALL the flames he can find. It’s part of his belief in the Steve Bannon, ‘great leaps forward follow massive international conflicts’ theory. He drank that koolaid long ago, and will proudly own it. Why is anyone surprised by this action? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2017, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/80 "2017-12-09T17:08:38Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > It’s “hard to gargle zwadelneus with all these marbles in my mouth…” A little Weird Al improves any thread! 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854.md?page=5)